Turn offs about anime

Topic started by justanormalguy on Dec. 7, 2011. Last post by MisterX 2 years, 8 months ago.
Post by justanormalguy (270 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Sup people. I saw this community, and I wanted to see if you guys could help me out.

Now, I got a lot of friends who are into anime. I used to be big into anime, but some things kept me away from it. Primarily, the sexism in anime.

How do people cope with that? How do they find it funny?

I mean, sure it's meant to be funny, but I really don't find it funny. And I really can't understand why they make it as so and try to be funny with it.

You have anime where it's a little skinny guy, who gets smacked around all day by girls. How is that funny? Why don't we switch it up, and have the chicks get hit? That wouldn't be funny, so why is it funny that the guy gets hit? Sexism is really not funny, but if that is what the Japanese are into, well then they got some issues. That's my opinion. (For example, Girls Bravo. I can't get past the first episode. The main character is just so stupid and a wimp.)

And then you get the anime where it's ALL about boobs. Boobs here, there, everywhere. I mean, fanservice is cool, but there really should be a limit to respect the women out there. Just like the anime should respect the men who don't like being represented as wimps, the women should be respected by not having their boobs showing all the time. (For example, Sekirei. Like, really? To get the story across, there NEEDS to be an excess of boobs?)

I mean, there really seems to be no balance at all with anything. And it's a turn off for me, because I enjoy Japanese culture, but I can't seem to enjoy anime. I mean, I really don't understand how people can enjoy it without seeing the sexism involved. It's weird, because as humans we shouldn't want sexism and just want equality, but that's not how anime presents itself.

I really want to know how you guys deal with it. Do you enjoy the sexism? How do you find it funny? Maybe if you guys can clear stuff up, or some techniques you guys do to block out the sexism, maybe I can do it too and try to enjoy the anime without the sexism(which is kinda hard, but I'm willing to try if you guys can help me out.)

Post by takashichea (11,816 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

Not all anime have this stuff. However, I don't have any good animes that avoids it. The good animes have a moderate amount of fan service. I tend to avoid animes that have heavy fan service like Seikon no Qwaser which is about getting power from breastfeeding. For the avoiding part, it's impossible. Sex appeal is like commercials and ads. It's everywhere. Just skip. mute, or ignore the scene.

For the wimpy guys, those are present in harem animes, and those have prominent fan service. There are other genres in anime to explore.

You may want to check out FoxxFireArt's article on strong women (see the strong women concept) for shows that counter sexism. The only downside is that most of the women in the article are sexualized and well endowed. It sends the message to other girls that you have to be pretty to be strong. (No offense, Foxx)

Post by TheRedRose (1,645 posts) See mini bio Level 10
A turn off for me is when the characters have no character development or when the protagonist gets all these over hax, new special technique, last minute power up shit without a good reason and such. Like Ichigo or Toshiro, I hate them both period because they always have to switch to bankai for even the smallest or weakest opponents. Plus Ichigo who doesn't  rely on his shikai or even Bankai, has to wear a vizard mask or switch to H2 since you know, a bitch.  The villain has defeated you! ow wait, oh shit, demon mode! At least Naruto relies on his own abilities and trains for them than other characters, since when do you see Naruto turning nine tails in every fight? Ichigo is sort of a bitch if you ask me not that I don't like Bleach, to be honest I do like bleach but Ichigo.... I mean there's a time where a protagonist shouldn't win a battle, it would seem more realistic if they didn't won every battle. Look at Seiya, he got his ass tossed by Virgo, Leo, etc and needed some huge help in order to get back on his feet.
Post by MisterX (917 posts) See mini bio Level 19

I agree. Not every anime has these problems, so you just have to avoid the ones that do. Personally, I don't really care for ecchi also. I can tolerate it to certain degrees, and I do find it funny sometimes, but I don't want it to be the focus of the anime. I suggest searching for shows based on genre, it should help filter out most of the anime you won't like.

Post by justanormalguy (270 posts) See mini bio Level 10

The thing is, I wanna try and expand my genre of anime. If not, I'll be stuck with DBZ the entire time! Lol.

I just wanna know how people deal with the sexism, and how I can apply it to expand my anime genres.

P.S. Even DBZ has some forms of sexism. Remember someone named Chi-Chi? Yeah, we all do. And her control over Goku and her son? I mean, sure it may be intended as funny, but does Chi-Chi really need to be depicted as controlling to be seen as a strong female character?

Post by takashichea (11,816 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

@justanormalguy:

Tough question. This is my guess. You can blog about it here on Anime Vice and make a discussion about it. As for applying it, you could like viewed different animes of different genres to see the pattern of sexism. Shonen and Shoujo anime have different perceptions and experiences of it.

That Chi-Chi one is just for comedy and to show that Goku is a nice guy who can't win over his wife despite his super strength.

Post by MisterX (917 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@justanormalguy: Hmmm. I see your point. Maybe you should try Gyakkyou Burai Kaiji. It doesn't have a single female character in it, and it's quite mature. I also think it has an excellent story, characters, and theme. Though it might seem boring at first glance, I think it's quite clever and it always kept me on the edge of my seat. To answer your original question though, when I look for anime, I usually avoid anything with ecchi, harem, romance, etc. listed in its genres. I know this isn't full-proof, like you mentioned, so during those inevitable but brief moments of fan-service or whatnot I usually just ignore them or laugh at them. They can sometimes diffuse the tension during certain situations; I actually believe there's a specific term for it in plays and literature, but I can't recall it at the moment.

Post by justanormalguy (270 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@taka - Well, this blog here was supposed to be the discussion about it. Lol.

Yeah, but does she really need to be controlling to be seen as a strong female character? Has anyone seen Grenadier? The main character is not controlling, and yet she is a very strong female character. I mean, really? Do they need to be controlling and abusive to men? Cuz to be honest, Chi-Chi is abusive towards Goku. Lol. Sakura is abusive towards Naruto. Winry is abusive towards Edward (I remember that episode of Brotherhood where he goes to get his arm and stuff repaired, and she throws a shoe or something at him. I don't remember. And Edward does nothing but takes it and does nothing back.) I mean, I don't think the violence is necessary to depict a strong female character. And then people enjoy this kind of "humor". Is it funny? In my opinion, no, and it sucks cuz it keeps me away from MANY anime, and I wanna try and get into it cuz I know there's good stuff out there.

@X - I mean, I kinda just shake my head, and sit there trying to understand why everyone else thinks its funny. And then I get crap for not laughing. Seriously? Explain to me why it's funny, not just "Hey, it's funny" which are the responses I get. Lol.

I'll check out that anime. It's not Yaoi, is it? Since there's all guys?

Post by takashichea (11,816 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

My bad. I was over thinking things. Boy, too many shonen shows have violent strong female types. The only thing I can think of now is Hayao Miyazaki's female leads. They're mature and are not well endowed. They don't hit the males or have those chibi or deformed moments. Have you watch his movies? It's too bad that he doesn't make anime series.

Examples: Naausica, Chihiro, Lady Eboshi, San, Sophie

I think it's a cultural thing with the violent female types or a turn on for some guys who like feisty girls. I don't know.

Post by justanormalguy (270 posts) See mini bio Level 10

In all honesty, I have not seen his work. But now since you mentioned the type of female characters in his films, maybe I'll actually go ahead and check them out. Thanks for that.

But I'm glad you understand my point. Females don't need to be violent to be seen as strong. They don't, and I really don't know why Japanese mangaka think they do. I don't know why they write that in their manga. I assume for humor, but from my perspective it really isn't funny. And obviously I don't have to watch it, but I want to try, hence why this blog was written.

Post by MisterX (917 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@justanormalguy: No, it's definitely not Yaoi. It could probably have female characters in it, but for some reason it just doesn't. Trust me, I utterly hate Yaoi.

To answer your question though, those fan-service parts are a little funny at times, but they're certainly not laugh out loud moments of hilarity. If there's a joke that I think is stupid, I just roll my eyes and ignore it, since it's not the main focus of the show anyway. Don't let small moments like that turn you off from what could be in all other respects a decent show. As a side note, I always watch anime by myself or with my brother so I don't have to worry too much about getting flak for not laughing at the "right" time.

Post by justanormalguy (270 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Don't let small moments like that turn you off from what could be in all other respects a decent show.

I try not to, but it's still there. Like I mentioned about Brotherhood, when Winry throws a shoe at Ed, I shook my head. If it happened once, it's bound to happen again. Knowing anime, it is, and I just couldn't continue the series because I expected more of that to happen. It sucks, but I feel it's not necessary to create a good story. Ridiculous fan-service isn't needed. Violent females aren't needed. It's just not needed, period.

Post by Turambar (233 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@justanormalguy said:

The thing is, I wanna try and expand my genre of anime. If not, I'll be stuck with DBZ the entire time! Lol.

I just wanna know how people deal with the sexism, and how I can apply it to expand my anime genres.

P.S. Even DBZ has some forms of sexism. Remember someone named Chi-Chi? Yeah, we all do. And her control over Goku and her son? I mean, sure it may be intended as funny, but does Chi-Chi really need to be depicted as controlling to be seen as a strong female character?

Fan service is something people learn to parse and dig deeper into. Not all usage of it, breasts or not, lead to gratuity that causes more discomfort than enjoyment, even if its depiction can be considered gratuitous. Take Faye Valentine for example. Her gratuitous and fan service laden physique is not simply meant to give male viewers erections, but rather also clash with the imperfections and down right pathetic aspects of her character. (That is to say her character is a sad and petty one, not that her characterization is done poorly.)

More recent examples include Hanasaku Iroha, a show that also has some scenes included for the sake of sexualization. But partly due to fantastic production value and partly due to fantastic characters, the fan service is something easily ignored, or in my case, accepted with open arms, compared to some of the harem shows out there.

Looking through your examples of sexism though, I partly think you are just a bit oversensitive on the matter. Not to say your examples are invalid, because sexism has many layers of nuance that extends beyond depictions of the body and gender roles. However many, like the relationship between your generic spineless male lead in a harem show and the rest of female cast, has become giant (and popular) tropes, and needs begrudging resignation and acceptance.

Post by MisterX (917 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@justanormalguy: You may be right, but as long as stuff like that sells, they'll keep making more of it. As I mentioned earlier though, even Shakespeare's plays had moments of comic relief that were completely irrelevant to the plot itself. I understand that the content of the jokes is vastly different, but their purpose is still largely the same. Like takashichea said, try Miyazaki's movies. You might like them.

Post by Turambar (233 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@justanormalguy said:

Don't let small moments like that turn you off from what could be in all other respects a decent show.

I try not to, but it's still there. Like I mentioned about Brotherhood, when Winry throws a shoe at Ed, I shook my head. If it happened once, it's bound to happen again. Knowing anime, it is, and I just couldn't continue the series because I expected more of that to happen. It sucks, but I feel it's not necessary to create a good story. Ridiculous fan-service isn't needed. Violent females aren't needed. It's just not needed, period.

Now I actually have to raise an eye brow. Moments like that are used to help characterize the relationship between Winry and Ed. It does not paint Winry as "violent", it paints their relationship as a somewhat love hate one done in a comical way. It is a very common trope used in almost every single medium out there in both east and west media from sitcoms to movies.

Women are capable of being controlling. They are capable of being physical. They are capable of exerting themselves to great degrees and taking the initiative. The fact that you seem to view any of this as sexism has me scratching my head when these traits aren't even necessarily being used in a "look at how much she sucks for being like this" kind of way. Some girls depicted as fragile creatures that are soft, pure, and breaks if you sneeze at them. Some are not afraid to berate the males in the show.

Post by MisterX (917 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@Turambar: I agree. There's nothing wrong with strong female characters. There's both strong and fragile women in real-life, so why wouldn't there be both strong and fragile women in anime?

Post by justanormalguy (270 posts) See mini bio Level 10

I stay away from all televisions shows, whether american or japanese, that have to use the strong female character be represented in a violent manner. I mean, I understand that women can be controlling and impulsive, but men can be dominant and impulsive as well, and you do not see it that much from the men, so much so as you do see it much more from the women now-a-days in television shows. Of course, there are instances from both the men and women in some television series, but at least to my knowledge I have seen much more controlling and violent women, and I feel it's absolutely ridiculous. It's not needed, and if you will do that have the man respond back, which in most cases they just sit there and take it. But essentially, the violence isn't necessary to create good storytelling, or develop character relationships, etc. Winry hitting Ed? Not necessary to develop character relationship. It's not. And if you want to go that route, have Ed hit her back. Much more a sense of equality, and not so one-sided towards Winry hitting Ed, which I think is sexist. Same for american television. Equality doesn't hurt.

I really am picky at what I wanna, or currently am, watching because I have that "21st century" mentality, if you will. Equality doesn't hurt anyone. It only makes things fair for both parties. Do you think I wanna see Ed getting smacked in the face by Winry? No. But if he was hit, would I like to see him hit her back? Of course. I don't know if you are understanding my points, but I think things that are violent towards one-side just creates unnecessary.... what's the word.... drama? Maybe? I dunno, but the point is that equality doesn't hurt. Yeah. And even so, in the end, if we can do without the violence it would be the best thing.

Strong female characters do not need to be violent.

And about fan-service, using it within reason is okay. Getting crazy with it is just dumb. I think, well I hope, we can all agree on that.

Post by rein (5,465 posts) See mini bio Level 15

It might just be me, but i have a problem with 12 year old kids training for a year and becoming more powerful then the strongest characters in the series (who probably trained their entire lives). It just ticks me off when i see it.

Post by Destinyheroknight (10,240 posts) See mini bio Level 21

@rein:

It might just be me, but i have a problem with 12 year old kids training for a year and becoming more powerful then the strongest characters in the series (who probably trained their entire lives). It just ticks me off when i see it.

But you like Negima :/

Post by rein (5,465 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@Destinyheroknight: Eva is still stronger then Negi and i like to believe that Rakan pulled a Takamichi (Used full power but didn't use it to it's full potential) but yes, it's one of the few things i dislike about Negima.

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