Theism vs Atheism

Topic started by Mortein on Feb. 7, 2011. Last post by Bigheart711 1 year, 8 months ago.
Post by sceonn (757 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Actually Deism makes the most sense of them all, as you can neither prove nor disprove the existance of an all-powerful creator while you could in fact possibly determine it through continuous scientific advancements. Though I still prefer being an Atheist.

Post by GhostRider29 (176 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@JonSmith said:

@GhostRider29: I apologize, that was all really important and I appreciate you sending out that message to everyone else, but I find it really funny that with that whole message, your chosen username is that of a dude who sold his soul to a classical devil and more or less goes out and kills people. xD

Lol I know why you think it'd be funny. But Ghost Rider does fight the "Devil" lol, and wins. So it's really not that bad. And the newer versions of GhostRiders, they're actually powers from God. Weird huh? Lol

Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@SilverGalford: Not all atheists are like that man.

ND

Post by Addfwyn (408 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@sceonn: It's true you can't prove or disprove, but the burden of proof is on the theist to prove the existence thereof, which is why atheism is the default position. Agnostic atheism at least (since it doesn't claim any proof of nonexistence), gnostic atheism is another thing all together. Otherwise, you'd have to spend all day disproving things and never be able to come to any kind of conclusion. You'd have to disprove that invisible pink bunnies make the world rotate, and then disprove that invisible yellow ponies did it, and so forth. It's why the person making the assertion needs to prove that it DOES exist before anything needs to be disproven.

Post by sceonn (757 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Addfwyn:

True...

Post by SilverGalford (2,951 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Newdeath said:

@SilverGalford: Not all atheists are like that man.

ND

probably , but since humans tend to become corrupt , it's no wonder why they end up thinking that way. after all we are "animals" fighting for our own selfish meaningless survival right? . since this life doesn't make sense (for atheist people) , it doesn't matter what you do , and consequentely corruption leads you to be like that (you make mistakes and you are not perfect, as a result , your way of see things can be wrong too and lead you to more problems that create more suffering , like the ones we see in this miserable world today ) . living making mistakes doesn't improve anything , just make more problems over and over again, the proof is the world around you .

finally atheists haven't done anything for me , they can't even help themselves mostly , which means that belief is useless, well at least for me.

Post by SilverGalford (2,951 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@MrASSH0LE said:

@SilverGalford said:

Why atheist people are like this? , Don't you understand when someone doesn't want to continue it's because he doesn't want to continue? Did i tell you to post my comments here ? what did i tell you? Do you want to show my comments here in order to show them to rest and make fun of me or something ? what do you want? .

1-Nothing is forcing you to talk with me if you don't want to.I also love your generalization.

2-I told you the conversation was being moved here and I posted my reply here before receiving a comment from you on the other thread saying you did not want to talk.

atheist is based on what everybody thinks ( there is no absolute morals) , then you tolerate what YOU consider it should be tolerated , but what you tolerate can affect someone .

Well atheism is not based on subjective morality it is based on the lack of a deity. Atheists tend to have a sense of right and wrong .The same sense most people have which is what hurts people is bad.

Also some atheists believe in objective morality but believe it to be biologic.

@SilverGalford said:

imagine that an atheist , not you of course , tolerate drugs . but then at the same time there is someone who does drugs and beats up his mother . you see? , i can list many situations , but it would take a lot of time. since different atheist people have different views about what morals are , the result is this world with problems.

Well for one nothing in the Bible discourages drugs, plus there is a difference between supporting something and supporting actions that follow usage of this thing or are done during the usage.

since different atheist people have different views about what morals are , the result is this world with problems. but you probably will say believers are like that , yeah and in times of jesus was like that too , but at the end hypocritical believers and people against God will be punished ,actually i have mentioned that before if i'm not wrong . non of them are good , hypocritical believers and people against God.

Well the facts that believers and even Jesus were like that is important.The whole core of this argument was you applying the slippery slope fallacy and saying that since I disapproved of intolerance towards homosexuals and atheists in the Bible I should disapprove of intolerance towards anything.When I explained to you that the problem is unmotivated intolerance.Example : Nobody cares if you hate Nazis,we do care if you hate Blacks and Jews since Nazis are violent and promote an hateful agenda and Blacks and Jews aren't anymore dangerous then anybody.If you wanna say the Bible has a right to be intolerant to those peoples then you need to show how gays and atheists are more of a threat then regular peoples especially since you said God's intolerance was to those who were harmful.

now i have heard that an atheist said rape and steal could be morally right , now i wonder , what is the next thing they are going to consider as morally "right"?. i don't want to imagine what is next.

Excuse me if I am wrong but the Bible says nothing about rape being wrong actually I think that the Bible said a man should marry a woman he rapes http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm.The fact that you view it that way chose that you yourself have an humanist moral code to an extent.

Again generalization,so because one atheist believes rape is correct all of them or majority will think so too?Actually as I have said above atheists tend to respect the law more just look at the studies I have linked to in my argument with hitsu.

God helps me to be a good person and people like you , Atheist , haven't done anything for me , they don't even care about me . that kind of love showed by God , atheism hasn't shown to me .

Not really relevant to discussion as I stated above we were talking about tolerance.I don't know what you are trying to get at.

there is just one way to prove who is wrong or right , in our real lives . if what you say is true , then it will bring good consequences and help many people . here on the inernet people lie like hell , but lets' put what we say into practice because words cannot prove anything here on anime vice . you do as you please and i will obey God, and let's see the result in our lives , maybe we cannot see the results today , but let's wait for them . and don't tell me the results . Since i cannot see your life , i won't understand and believe you . i can believe you are lying to me and you can too . let's keep that to ourselves .

I'd like to ask you what is the value of Christian morality over secular humanism.We take actions based on logic either because they are good for humanity or for us.You're morality basically says that we need to obey Yahweh whether what he prescribes protects humans and human welfare (don't steal,don't kill) or they don't (kill atheists,kill gays and adulterers),you may say that God's reasons are beyond human understandings but it would for one lead you to ask yourself how you can be so sure your interests even matter to him and it would still put you in a situation where your morality is arbitrary and not logically reasoned.

I have also explained to hitsu why the "God is good " card fails.

anyone can say anything like any politician , but the way they behave is what really matters . i have seen many people like you saying a lot of things , being so very smart with their "good arguments" but at the end , it's the same thing , a complete failure. you haven't explained anything , since nobody has the truth, this thread makes no sense. if what i say is not true , what you say is not either. it's all subjective and i don't need more explanations for someone who doesn't believe and understand , what's the point of that? what do you wanna win?. in few words sir : you with your ideas and me with my ideas ok?, don't you like my ideas? don't you want to lose? i don't care about it , it's your life, not mine ,what you say doesn't have any meaning to me , you are just wasting your time .

besides, i have obeyed God for a long period of time , and nothing bad has happened to me (well at least not as horrible as other people) my interests you don't know ,so don't try to imagine what they are . hey let's see what someone who did as he please like you experienced :

i remember my niece made fun of me because of my beliefs ,she told me that i hadn't personality and almost exactly the same thing s you are posting her. she was almost like you , someone who doesn't believe in God and liked doing as she please .guess what? ,now she is suffering more like me with a baby she didn't want to have , a ruined carrier , a mother in law who makes her life a living hell and a boyfriend who doesn't even love her and treat her badly .wanna hear another similar story? oh but wait then you will show me some christians having this situation , yeah that could be possible but you missed one important point , they will be punished by God if they don't change and it's not easy to obey God , specially with this human sinful condition. that's why Jesus said "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it" hypocrites won't be accepted to God . you see Mrasshole ? don't try to convince me to do what you think, those ideas just will give me problems. if you think is ok ,well keep that to yourself . i know what i'm doing is the right thing and nobody will convice me to do otherwise. I have seen enough losers who believed they were superior without God (and hypocritical christians too) to understand that i need to obey God ,now i'm satisfied with the results and nobody can change my mind . so there is no point in posting your comments. it's useless.

finally , to summarize and make you remember , because you seem not to understand :

let's keep (the results) that to ourselves. this thread won't prove nothing (people lie too much here) , you real life will , so your argumments won't help you to change my mind and win this deabte your life will again.

Post by MrASSH0LE (2,320 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@SilverGalford:

anyone can say anything like any politician , but the way they behave is what really matters . i have seen many people like you saying a lot of things , being so very smart with their "good arguments" but at the end , it's the same thing , a complete failure. you haven't explained anything , since nobody has the truth, this thread makes no sense. if what i say is not true , what you say is not either. it's all subjective and i don't need more explanations for someone who doesn't believe and understand , what's the point of that? what do you wanna win?. in few words sir : you with your ideas and me with my ideas ok?, don't you like my ideas? don't you want to lose? i don't care about it , it's your life, not mine ,what you say doesn't have any meaning to me , you are just wasting your time .

You know I like to think hypocrisy is one of the worse things a human being can as it is one of the only things that not only is both irrational and immoral.Not only are you not being honest(immoral) but you're also taking a position that is a total contradiction to your previous one (illogical).

You are the one who replied to me and argued with me and even NOW you're arguing with me. Now that you fail at providing a proper argument you say arguments don't matter.

Arguments don't matter? Well then how do you decide what to do ? How does your decision making work?

You make decisions based on examining the pros and cons of you're different options .

And once again what the fuck does that have to do with TOLERANCE,YOU IDIOT.

besides, i have obeyed God for a long period of time , and nothing bad has happened to me (well at least not as horrible as other people) my interests you don't know ,so don't try to imagine what they are . hey let's see what someone who did as he please like you experienced :

i remember my niece made fun of me because of my beliefs ,she told me that i hadn't personality and almost exactly the same thing s you are posting her. she was al

This is not only confirmation bias but you're also committing the fallacy of the false cause by assuming your Christian lifestyle (or even God) is the source of you lack of trouble when you have no evidence to back it up,I know tons of atheist people who have led good lives. I, myself, have not seen any problem coming from my loss of belief in a deity.

i remember my niece made fun of me because of my beliefs ,she told me that i hadn't personality and almost exactly the same thing s you are posting her. she was almost like you , someone who doesn't believe in God and liked doing as she please .guess what? ,

Once again, here you are making assumptions about my lifestyle and ones of other atheists based on generalization and anecdotal evidence about your niece which is why I called you an idiot in the first paragraph cause honestly I don't see the point of sparing you Ad Hominem if you're just going to be so prejudice and judgemental.

now she is suffering more like me with a baby she didn't want to have , a ruined carrier , a mother in law who makes her life a living hell and a boyfriend who doesn't even love her and treat her badly .wanna hear another similar story? oh but wait then you will show me some christians having this situation , yeah that could be possible but you missed one important point , they will be punished by God if they don't change and it's not easy to obey God , specially with this human sinful condition. that's why Jesus said "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it" hypocrites won't be accepted to God . you see Mrasshole ? don't try to convince me to do what you think, those ideas just will give me problems. if you think is ok ,well keep that to yourself . i know what i'm doing is the right thing and nobody will convice me to do otherwise. I have seen enough losers who believed they were superior without God (and hypocritical christians too) to understand that i need to obey God ,now i'm satisfied with the results and nobody can change my mind . so there is no point in posting your comments. it's useless.

finally , to summarize and make you remember , because you seem not to understand :

For one , yes the fact that Christian do it and the frequency at which they do it is important.You are trying to establish that Christianity will lead to a good lifestyle ,you can't do that unless you can show me that there is a difference in the amount of what you consider to be "evil deeds" between the believers and non-believers otherwise you're just once again committing fallacy of false cause.

We know that abstinence education does not work which is what the Bible teaches and it is backed-up by several statistics that it would increase teen pregnancies actually.We also know that as crime , abortion and teen pregnancy decreased secularism was on the rise in the US.

http://secularist10.hubpages.com/hub/Religion-Atheism-and-Teen-Pregnancy

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120304174533AA9ii7u

That is not to say that atheism causes that but it does show that your drawing of the conclusion that it lead to your niece 's situation is once again flawed.

hence the fear of being punished does not affect their behaviour.

And before you talk about your personal experience,I.d like to say that the personal experience of those people used for the studies weights way more then yours and if you wanna argue otherwise that be very arrogant of you....how unchristian.

I'd also like to ask you once again what is the purpose of Christian morality.I am gonna repeat.

I'd like to ask you what is the value of Christian morality over secular humanism.We take actions based on logic either because they are good for humanity or for us.You're morality basically says that we need to obey Yahweh whether what he prescribes protects humans and human welfare (don't steal,don't kill) or they don't (kill atheists,kill gays and adulterers),you may say that God's reasons are beyond human understandings but it would for one lead you to ask yourself how you can be so sure your interests even matter to him and it would still put you in a situation where your morality is arbitrary and not logically reasoned.

I anticipate your response from this one

HURRY,HURRY,HURRY!!

Post by jewl122 (326 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@RadiantTheLight:

It's not 2 late though if u want to! :)

Post by _Punk_ (23 posts) See mini bio Level 4
All Gods of every shape and form are who I believe exist.I don't worship any,however.Omnitheism.
Post by Killer_of_trolls (1,563 posts) See mini bio Level 11
Post by TheNobody (289 posts) See mini bio Level 7

I believe there's a God because just dying and staying dead sounds all to boring for me and rather unpleasant.... Just as much as hell does too! I'd prefer going to a mystical world of clouds where I could see the people I miss than just staying dead or a place of torment. And my hopes are is that there is a God and that I'm going to heaven when I die, and if there isn't a God well to bad for me, I believe in something than nothing. Both science and religion contradict themselves in so many ways however I don't believe in following a religion will get you into heaven. I believe in following Jesus' words and the Bible because it makes me happy and makes me feel that when I die I'll go somewhere. And if there is something different than that in the afterlife it better be something like Bleach or a harem or I'll get mega piss and stay angry for the rest of my ghostly life (if there is one). What I'm trying to say is leave everyone to their beliefs, because there's no reason to ruin someone who's happy with who they are, just as long as they're not doing anything to you. And to accept everyone for who they are, hell who knows! Reality might not be reality for all we know, we could all be an anime and God could be the artist and writer for all we know. Life is so full of unanswered questions that I hope will be solved before my demise.

Post by SilverGalford (2,951 posts) See mini bio Level 11

What I'm trying to say is leave everyone to their beliefs,

that's the point , ironically an Atheist created this thread , LOL!

Both science and religion contradict themselves

i don't think so , but anyways

Post by TheNobody (289 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@SilverGalford: Wouldn't it be awesome if you got reincarnated into an anime when you die? That'd be damn right awesome!

Post by DBZ_universe (15,385 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@TheNobody said:

@SilverGalford: Wouldn't it be awesome if you got reincarnated into an anime when you die? That'd be damn right awesome!

Well did you know that King Bradley is my ancestor... XD

Post by DBZ_universe (15,385 posts) See mini bio Level 17

My family is Catholic but am Atheist... But I do respect other religions and cultures tho..

Also this is hilarious....

Post by SilverGalford (2,951 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@DBZ_universe said:

My family is Catholic but am Atheist... But I do respect other religions and cultures tho..

Also this is hilarious....

LOL!

Wouldn't it be awesome if you got reincarnated into an anime when you die? That'd be damn right awesome!

LOL! yeah that would be something like Gantz .

Well did you know that King Bradley is my ancestor... XD

LOL! so funny

Post by Nessy (48 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@TheNobody said:

I believe there's a God because just dying and staying dead sounds all to boring for me and rather unpleasant

So you hope there is a god? Belief is the option that to you seems most likely.

Post by TheNobody (289 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@Nessy: Basically, I mean there's no way you can disapprove or prove of an omnipotent beings existence, and even if God isn't real there must be another explanation of what happens when we die. Staying dead is to boring, if I had to choose to be immortal or no longer exist it would be immortal. 
Post by Nessy (48 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@TheNobody said:

@Nessy: Basically, I mean there's no way you can disapprove or prove of an omnipotent beings existence, and even if God isn't real there must be another explanation of what happens when we die. Staying dead is to boring, if I had to choose to be immortal or no longer exist it would be immortal.

So you're choosing it because it seems like a better option...not because you think it's true?

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