So, my friends a bisexual....... i shoulda seen that one.........

Topic started by jewl122 on Dec. 23, 2010. Last post by haseo_yashimora 3 years, 4 months ago.
Post by Morita_Shunsuke (1,029 posts) See mini bio Level 9
THe whole world is going gay.. Damn you Ricky Martin.. :P
Post by rein (5,465 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@FoolyCooly: I have plenty of straight friends. 
Post by ssjsuperman (1,661 posts) See mini bio Level 10
@Mortein said:

" I don't like when hot girls are lesbians, unless they make a porn. "

I feel the same way my friend.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,710 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Mortein said:

1 Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them.    Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.    I   

 2 Corinthians 6:9 (NIV) - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.    How do Christians comment on this ?   "

1 Homosexual acts violate the law of Moses, as does eating pork, worshiping idols ect. 
 
2 Paul considers homosexuality immoral.  
Post by Mortein (1,558 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@hitsusatsu11 said:  
So should they be put to death, as the Bible suggests?
Post by Tempest (895 posts) See mini bio Level 8
@Mortein: Only if you feel it's absolutely necessary to obey the Judaic law to the letter. Which would also require you to bring animal offerings to God, avoid eating pork, ignore the (presumed) part of the New Testament which says that God's law covenant with Moses was lifted when Christ died..etc. 
Post by Mortein (1,558 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Tempest said:

" @Mortein: Only if you feel it's absolutely necessary to obey the Judaic law to the letter. Which would also require you to bring animal offerings to God, avoid eating pork, ignore the (presumed) part of the New Testament which says that God's law covenant with Moses was lifted when Christ died..etc.  "

Jesus said that not one jot, not one tittle, of the law will change until heaven and earth pass, till all is fulfilled.
Post by Tempest (895 posts) See mini bio Level 8
@Mortein: Context please? 
I was taught that the covenant was fulfilled by Christ, and that that was enough. And that Christians after him need to only acknowledge the laws and why they were implemented, not strictly follow them. 
Post by Mortein (1,558 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Tempest said:

" @Mortein: Context please? I was taught that the covenant was fulfilled by Christ, and that that was enough. And that Christians after him need to only acknowledge the laws and why they were implemented, not strictly follow them.  "

 http://bible.cc/matthew/5-18.htm 
 
 
But, are you saying it was moral to kill a gay man 2000 years ago, but then it suddenly became immoral, or are you saying the bible is not true word of god?  
What if I travel with my gay friend 2000 years in the past, would it be moral for me to kill him then?


 

Post by Tempest (895 posts) See mini bio Level 8
@Mortein: IMO, not any more moral than it is for, say, a Canadian to kill another Canadian after the latter hinted that they might have done something that, in the United States, would be illegal. 
Besides, not everything that is legal is necessarily moral. 
Furthermore, if Christians were expected to strictly obey the Judaic law, then the Apostle Paul (and millions after him) apparently went directly against that.
Post by cfatalis (19,150 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@Tempest said:
" @Mortein: IMO, not any more moral than it is for, say, a Canadian to kill another Canadian after the latter hinted that they might have done something that, in the United States, would be illegal. Besides, not everything that is legal is necessarily moral. Furthermore, if Christians were expected to strictly obey the Judaic law, then the Apostle Paul (and millions after him) apparently went directly against that. "
hence why it's the old testament
the current one is the new testament
 it's legal to commit incest according the old testament, as long as you are not directly related
simply put it's not exactly valid now
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,710 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Mortein: Do you mean in the old testamanet? Then yes under Mosaic law such a crime would warrant death. If you mean Pauline doctrine then no, the offender would not be put to death. The end of the law and beginning of grace did away with such things.  The Lord came not to abolish the law but fulfill it.  
 
There are many examples of this, some are when Jesus directly prevents the stoning of a woman (which is acceptable under mosaic law) and when Peter had a vision where the Lord commanded him to eat the un clean animals, something forbidden under Mosaic law. (to give context, when the Greeks took Jerusalem, pious Jews chose to be put to death rather than eat swine flesh, so this is a big deal) And of course the early church had many debates as to whether under grace circumcision was still required, as the Lord commanded Abraham.  
 
If your looking for clarifications about the apparent contradictions between the new and old covenant, I suggest reading the epistle to to the Hebrews, and the epistle to the Romans. Paul explains it quite well.  
   
 
 
But, are you saying it was moral to kill a gay man 2000 years ago, 

 
As far as this go's God has always been clear on this "You are to be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect" (Matt. 5:48) and "the wages for sin is death" (Romans 6:23) 
That never changes, the penalty for sin has always been death.  The difference in the new covenant is that God himself paid the price for these sins by sacrificing his son.  
Under the law, the priests made offerings comprising of lambs, calf's, ect. to compensate sin. Christ takes the place of the sacrificial lamb and provides an eternal sacrifice, so that anyone may have abounding forgiveness. 
Post by FoolyCooly (676 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@rein said:
" @FoolyCooly: I have plenty of straight friends.  "

i exaggerated
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,710 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Mortein said:
" Jesus said that not one jot, not one tittle, of the law will change until heaven and earth pass, till all is fulfilled. "
 -Matt. 5:18
 
Yes, but read it in context.  
What did Jesus immediately do after he said that? 
He started changing the Law- read Mathew 5:18 through to the beginning of Mathew 6, he gives new ordinances on divorce, violence (turn the other cheek), oaths ect. 
Post by EganTheVile1 (1,511 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@jewl122:  Thought I was bi once upon a time, then I kissed a dude and vomited in my mouth a little, that said I dont really know why you woman arent all over each other constantly, your soft smell good and were... well I hesitate to pass gas around a girl I like but hope I let the deadliest smell in the history of smells out around other guys and laugh about it. I dont blame your friend for being into girls, and you should not either. BTW just to clarify my only guy kiss had no tongue involved!
Post by Mortein (1,558 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@hitsusatsu11 said:
" @Mortein said:
" Jesus said that not one jot, not one tittle, of the law will change until heaven and earth pass, till all is fulfilled. "
 -Matt. 5:18 Yes, but read it in context.  What did Jesus immediately do after he said that? He started changing the Law- read Mathew 5:18 through to the beginning of Mathew 6, he gives new ordinances on divorce, violence (turn the other cheek), oaths ect.  "
So he was lying?
But what I do not understand is how is it possible for something that was moral in the past to be immoral in the present? 
Post by cfatalis (19,150 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@Mortein:  standard have been changed?
 
in the old testament if you spilt your seed not inside a woman's womb you are dirty and must do some sort of cleaning ritual
 you could also fuck your sister in law if your older bro dies before getting children 
(both cases had the same person on it, e.g Onan)
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,710 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Mortein said: 

So he was lying? 

No he wasn't lying, he was explaining what it means to bring the Law to fulfillment.  
Replacing and expanding the legalistic letter of the law with its spirit . 
 
As I said, read the Pauline epistles (particularly Romans and Hebrews) for a good explanation. 
Post by Mortein (1,558 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@hitsusatsu11 said:

" @Mortein said: No he wasn't lying, he was explaining what it means to bring the Law to fulfillment.  Replacing and expanding the legalistic letter of the law with its spirit .  As I said, read the Pauline epistles (particularly Romans and Hebrews) for a good explanation.  "

Lets try to simplify things
first he said he is not going to change the law, then he changed the law.
is this right?
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,710 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Mortein: No, its not right. 
" Jesus said that not one jot, not one tittle, of the law will change until heaven and earth pass, till all is fulfilled. "
He clearly indicates that the law will be changed when all is fulfilled. 
Christ's coming brought fulfillment to the covenant with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and David.  
But again, its not so much a change (i.e the Law is now bad) its a fulfillment of the Law's true purpose. 
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