So I read up on the OBD

Topic started by justanormalguy on Jan. 25, 2012. Last post by SilverGalford 2 years, 5 months ago.
Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@justanormalguy: I really dont like your attitude "I read one sentence and I didn't continue." That is just ignorance, you made this topic in order to invoke other opinions on the subject (Else you wouldnt have made it at all) and you dont even have the decencey to read them? That is just plain ignorance. You could at least have the decency to read an entire post before disregarding it.

But I digress, Bring science into fiction? If we didnt do this then all debate's would be run on speculation, Unless otherwise stated in the manga itself, the physics of said universe is similar to our own, meaning we can get accurate calclations on ones power based on what they have done. Physics is a constant unless otherwise stated beforehand. The way you are trying to do things is how a troll or fanboy would try to do things, taking claims out of context and blowing them WELL out of proportion to increase the overall strength of a character, This is how we debate fairly. going by your claims the immortals in Baccano cannot be killed at all by anyone outside their own universe who isnt also an immortal regardelss of the power that this person has because it was a claim they made.

If what you said was true then can you tell me why Cell lost? he was easily stronger than everyone if he could Solar System bust so why did he not win? Either his OWN claim about HIS power was false or he died due to PIS. Same goes for Buu and his power.

You also though that Kenpachi could easily defeat EoS Demon Eyes Kyo even though he is superior in every way and your claim was that kenpachi said he was only using a bit of his power and thats why he would win... Really what the hell.

If this is the way you debate then I suggest just to debate with only your RL Friends because nowhere is going to accepct you claims because you have no evidence to back them up. You cant just murder someone and claim infront of a Judge that you didnt and expect to get away with it without evidence to back up your claims.

And if they did? Well I guess every match would have to be redone again.

Post by justanormalguy (270 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Didn't I try? You guys say "no bro, going by the manga is wrong". And I say it's right, and we go in a circle. It gets boring broski.
Post by Fehafare (8,545 posts) See mini bio Level 13
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@justanormalguy: We don't say it's wrong, we just say that it doesn't prove your claims.

Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@justanormalguy: Ok for one I never said "The manga said this, but I think this is like this" I said that he is putting himself in the characters shoes and trying to act as if he is the character (If he didnt then it would hardly be worth reading), Which means that Cell claiming he is a Solar System Buster should be taken lightly since, oh i dont know HE is the VILLAN. Of corse he is going to hype himself up to his enemies, Thats what I would do but does that mean I can do the things I said I can do? No it does not at all. At no point did he destroy a solar system or give off enough power that destroyed a Solar System so it is not illogical to think that he cant do it at all. I am a firm believer in "I will believe it when I see it" so If he could do it then why the hell did he not show it?

And throwing science into fiction where if dosent belong? Science is in almost all fiction so your point is invalid in that aspect. And more often than not the science in our universe and in a fictional universe are the same or similar give or take a few principles (FTL travel and Big Bang level attacks). The physics is almost definitely the same so we are able to come up with ACCURATE power/speed/strength levels based on what they have SHOWN IN PANEL, not what they have SAID in panel.

If they say one thing and do another that is called a contradiction making the first point invalid, if he can destroy a SS then why didnt he do it? Tell me that one please.

And once again I did not compair murder and fiction, I compaired your logic in regards to manga with a case in court.

"taking into account the evidence Toriyama presented us about how the characters work and the higher their power level, the more they can do with their ki output?" Show me Goku Solar System Busting, or for that matter show me ANY of the top tiers (Cannon only obviously) Solar System busting please and I shall believe you, better yet get a quoat from Akira himself telling you he can and I will agree with everything you will ever say EVER.

Without proof to back up your claims you are the one making the assumptions not us.

I accept his words when HE himself says them (the only way that would happen if he put himself in the manga as the narrator or a similar being as TOAA) not a character in the manga with a different personality and mindset from the writer says them.

Do you think that Ryujin Jakka can really "burn all creation to ashes"? You must do because Yamamoto said it can himself I guess that means that Goku is screwed if he can fire that off then.

Repeating yourself over and over again will not make your statement any more right.

Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@justanormalguy: I will water it down for your simple mind then. But you really should learn to read big posts it will help you in the long run considering I pointed out everything in that post

You take the word of what a character says because it was placed there by the author with feats that directly contradict what was claimed correct?

The statement from Yamamoto claiming that his Ryujin Jakka can destroy everything is also correct in your eyes too yes?

Or that The Demon Blade Yamato can cut through everything is also true?

You need to realise that when a claim is made saying "A" can do "B" by a character but feats directly contradict said power then have you ever considered that it may not be true. Are you that gullible to believe everything that was said in DBZ was true TO THE LETTER? Just lol

I guess you would believe that if at the start of the series Bulma claimed that she thought Goku could destroy the universe he could, Despite the fact the best showings he had were destroying buildings correct? I mean it was wrote by the Author himself so it must be true right?

Post by colorles (24 posts) See mini bio Level 6

DBZ puts the 'power' in 'power scaling', and is quite powerful in dis regards

OBDers also have a tendency of ignorance towards how the characters are portrayed in the canon sources

basically they seem to value calcs (although this varies some) and direct displays of AoE destruction, as opposed to killing efficiency and how the characters are portrayed in the canon sources, in addition to a dislike of power scaling. really thoj communities tend to differ (although this varies some), but to ignore how the characters are portrayed in the canon sources in favor of fan oriented hubris (which is conditioned into some of them), and in utter ignorance perhaps even of the existence of the authors 'sway', seems to be the 'de facto mantra' of OBD as a community

Post by Dr_Ventum (162 posts) See mini bio Level 7
"Do these guys even read the manga?"

And I stopped there.

Most people who have experience with DBZ watched the anime as it was far more popular(also because, in the west most watched it as kids and didn't know about the manga)

Post by colorles (24 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Dr_Ventum said:

"Do these guys even read the manga?"

And I stopped there.

Most people who have experience with DBZ watched the anime as it was far more popular(also because, in the west most watched it as kids and didn't know about the manga)

DBZ (along with a few other animes) had a large part in introducing entire generations in certain areas to anime/manga, although the DBZ manga is hardly 'deep' so its rather unlikely the denizens of OBD as a whole have yet to read the DBZ manga or like, although then again the anime is famous so many just watch the anime. either way, seems OP is 'getting at' that the OBD as a comunity 'reads what they want to read, and if they dont like it they dont ackowledge it'. despite what OBD as a community likes to exclaim, they are known as a community as being rather bias and 'with a sense of acomplishment they speak down to what they dont ackowledge', this does not go well with some other communities

Post by MohsinMan99 (1,777 posts) See mini bio Level 21

@justanormalguy:

Just want to point out that when people say "Character X can't do it", they mean that there is no evidence for that claim or that there is an inconsistency. It doesn't mean that the particular character "can never do it". It also denotes a lack of feats.

OBD adopts the same policy for every series but sadly they are much more lenient on the not-so popular series than they are for popular series. Most likely it is the lack of people with knowledge of the series though this situation is getting better these days with everyone asking "proof" for claims instead of blindly accepting stuff.

Popular series are subject to more scrutiny and even more if there is constant wanking of the series.

You disregarding other posts and not even attempting to reply to them or to show why we should accept your views did wonders for your credibility though. I thought you were a reasonable poster before but now I'm not so sure. Yusuke52 pretty much hit it right on the spot.

Also, this is what we call this style of debating. Some stuff you should probably read:

http://deadliestfictionalwarrior.wikispaces.com/Battledomology

Post by Killer_of_trolls (1,563 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@justanormalguy: come on man, take a few minutes and read at least half of the posts, some of the stuff mentioned I was gonna say before reading. they all made perfect sense.

let's just say you were having a BBQ and envited a friend over, and he said "I am so hungry I could eat a horse". you wouldn't take that seriously and fry a number of burgers equel to a horses mass, would you?

if you study literature: Extra-dietetic narration(above the level of the story) is omniscient therefore it's unquestionable. inter-diegetic narration(on the level of story) is unreliable, I mean, think about it, when the hell did cell have time to calculate and find out how much he can blow-up, for all we know the guy can just be talking out his ars, and he actually doesn't know how much he can blow up, but just that he is a lot stronger than before.

now most importantly, you say the line is there for a superpose. how do you know what it's superpose is. I would recommend Roland Barthes article death of the author but I know you won't read it. it basically says the most important narratological rule in all fiction is, we don't really know the author's intention for anything he does, and that includes you!

Post by SilverGalford (2,951 posts) See mini bio Level 11

the problem is author's statements are inconsistent sometimes or the character statements.

when the hell did cell have time to calculate and find out how much he can blow-up,

LOL! good point.

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