Calcs and why they work

Topic started by Kurohige on Jan. 14, 2014. Last post by DevilMayhem666 8 months ago.
Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@Kurohige said:

As Sensui says S Class Power is too much for the Human Plane. Only the Under World and Dimension can withstand such power. Unleash from powering up would wreck the Earth(So he says)
Sensui here shakes off a Blast design for S Classes. It registers as a Earthquake across Japan as Sensui flexes his Power to break out of a alleged World Destroyer level Force field(It was his power that really caused them)
Hell Sensui here shakes off a Blast design for S Classes. It registers as a Earthquake across Japan as Sensui flexes his Power to break out of a World Destroyer level Force field..
Koenma stated that if earthquakes happened then he had failed

The Earthquake was caused by the combination of the energy contained in Koenma's pacifier. He was still suppressing himself and hadn't gone full power.

Anyway, I don't see what's the problem here. Sensui only stated that his power would cause too much stress to the planet (could mean earthquakes and stuff). He never said it'll lifewipe the whole earth

And how do you get things like the speed of the Lanza? Like I said if numbers are already given calcs just serve to get a more accurate number than "Really fast" Same thing how to you come to the conclusion for peak human speed and how can that apply to everyone?

We don't get an exact number but we get a range of speeds. Here's an example: http://lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-general/the-speed-of-lanza-del-relampago-158325/

And you got his speed within the Ice mirrors by....?

Kid Naruto blitzed Haku even when he was inside the ice mirrors. Hence its below supersonic as he's slower than CS1 Sasuke.

Nobody is gonna pixel scale a 6'9 human and measure a building as the same thing.

The irony is, OBD scales the entire mountains and countries solely based on Naruto's character height. They also did the same for las noches, which is why they came up qith absurd values.

As you said, scaling should be done only if the two objects are comparable in height.

The backgrounds and such are scaled/compared usually by the person who is being calced. The numbers change after debating and re-analysis for better accuracy, like I said it's not perfect.

Backgounds can be scaled if its only a 1-step process. If it requires more steps the error multiplies exponentially.

So calcs which determine even millisecond-level timeframes from free fall shouldn't be used.

Post by Kurohige (3,755 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@supernova7005:

The Earthquake was caused by the combination of the energy contained in Koenma's pacifier. He was still suppressing himself and hadn't gone full power.
Anyway, I don't see what's the problem here. Sensui only stated that his power would cause too much stress to the planet (could mean earthquakes and stuff). He never said it'll lifewipe the whole earth

It only happened as a reaction to Sensui overcoming it hence why his mission failed if that happened. Also a character does not have to state the EXACT method or what is going to happen. It's like if a character says "I am going to get from the Earth to the moon in no time at all" as opposed to "I am going to move faster than light to get to the moon" it's the same thing here, he wants to preserve the human world for the demons, so he needed to go to the makai world as his power even while suppressed was causing strain on the Earth. If we went my statements alone and not calcs then he would be a potential planet buster since nobody really objected to him when he said that and it wasn't really contradicted either.

We don't get an exact number but we get a range of speeds. Here's an example: http://lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-general/the-speed-of-lanza-del-relampago-158325/

That entire post was literally guessing "This side of Los Noches is at least 3x longer than the short side" with no explanation on how he got to that conclusion, it also concludes that Ulquiorra is a state buster the size of Texas which was debunked a long time ago.

Kid Naruto blitzed Haku even when he was inside the ice mirrors. Hence its below supersonic as he's slower than CS1 Sasuke.

Except Haku was able to contend with Lee and Gai's speed during the war, he didn't really even blitz he just countered his attack.

The irony is, OBD scales the entire mountains and countries solely based on Naruto's character height. They also did the same for las noches, which is why they came up qith absurd values.
As you said, scaling should be done only if the two objects are comparable in height.

It was still more believable than a Texas sized Los Noches. Not only that but those calcs are often reviewed with revamps trying a variety of methods until a believable and accurate calc is made.

Backgounds can be scaled if its only a 1-step process. If it requires more steps the error multiplies exponentially.
So calcs which determine even millisecond-level timeframes from free fall shouldn't be used.

That is not always the case though, what freefall are you specifically talking about?

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

"Calculations are only a more thought-out method of quantification. Actually, without calculations there would be no way to quantify anything. We know that dodging a bullet is an impressive feat because Pipboy and his brother made calcs for it before. Before that discussions were completely opinionated about speed. In a way they were even ahead of their time. They used concepts like "reaction speed" and "combat speed" which only got popular in the OBD by 2011 (IIRC, thanks to me). Anyways, like I said calculations are nothing more than a detailed analysis of a feat. I do agree that there's an extend where we would be going overboard. That's why we have unwritten rules against calc stacking and such. But you should also realize that 90% of the calcs are nothing but grade school math. They boil down to time/distance calculations, volume calculations or simple cases where you calculate KE or multiply one number with another. They are about as straightforward as it gets. And I would also like to note that the author's opinion means little if anything. If you actually get down to it, you'd realize that the majority of the authors know jackshit about the power of their creations. They simply don't care, all they do is to make these characters perform cool stuff. With the exception of maybe a very few Hard SF writter I don't think any authors stop to analyze what the characters and technologies they made are truly capable of. So with this it's natural that the power of fictional characters is inconsistent. And no, using statistical mean is a bad idea. This is fiction, an imitation of reality. Not reality itself. There's no "truth" for a character's power. There's only various viewpoints. And over the years the one viewpoint which dominates VS debates is the "positive feedback" style. This basically means to take the character's most impressive feats and take these as the said character's "true" level of ability. Why? In short it's because the others lead to much hypocrisy and potential abuses. Yeah, much more than this "positive feedback" style. That's roughly the gist of it."

" Unfortunately, too often people put a set of "rules" over the laws of physics in a fiction. It is fair enough to say that there is a common trope which means physics law X doesn't exist in that universe, but you have to be able to show examples within that universe. You can't just say "there's a rule against it, so it doesn't apply".

The one thing I would disagree about in this blog post is that calculations make the debate less fun. It seems to me that seems a lot of the debates about feats in the pre-calc era basically consisted of pages and pages of a more sophisticated version of "no it isn't, yes it is". This still happens, in fact, for certain feats before anyone can be bothered to calc it. That isn't interesting. Calculations (in the comments to the calcs themselves) often turn out to be a rich discussion of the feat from all possible perspectives, much more interesting. When it comes to the thread themselves, yes it means they are resolved more easily by "stats". But what that means is you can have much more threads, giving you a bigger range of fictions to look at, and hopefully the more interesting ones will be the ones that stick.

I would like to say though, this I much more to the point of what we do and what people want to know than wong's lecture on SDN, which was what people previously were linked all the time here in relation to complaints about calcs and whatnot. Especially as the said post details the use of the argument that almost everyone in the fiction is an idiot, which is not used here and no-one has tried to introduce it."

Post by DevilMayhem666 (261 posts) See mini bio Level 10
The author can always have these kinds of flaws. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WritersCannotDoMath
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