A Heartfelt Apology to Male Leads in Harem and Shonen Anime

Topic started by sickVisionz on Feb. 4, 2012. Last post by sotyfan16 3 months, 1 week ago.
Post by sickVisionz (3,063 posts) See mini bio Level 24
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The women of the Naruto world continue to go unsatisfied.
The women of the Naruto world continue to go unsatisfied.

I've pointed my finger at you, I've groaned, I've cursed you, and I've even dropped series because of you. I've said to myself, "a heterosexual high school boy having zero interest in the female form is impossible." Whenever I would see you throwing attractive girls off of you as they try to make out with you, I would remember my high school days and just not get the joke. I'd call you insane. It was impossible. I had an easier time believing that a character like Sasuke from Naruto could spit fire out of his eye and summon monster shields by flapping his hands around than suspending my disbelief that at the height of his sexual prime and with his hormones raging, he would turn down a fun and guilt-free time with Karin. But, my eyes have been opened.

This is actually a simulation of real world events.
This is actually a simulation of real world events.

According to a survey conducted by the Japan Family Planning Association, 36% of males aged 16 to 19 reported that they had "no interest" in sex, with some going as far as to say that they "despised" it. For women aged 16 to 19 the numbers were at a staggering 59%. All of this time I've thought that this was just some weird and bizarro take on teen life but low and behold, this is actually an incredibly accurate portrayal of the mindset of Japanese teens.

So, I'd like to formally apologize to you. I don't like to make fun of people for cultural differences and that's exactly what I've been doing. I'm Sorry. Honto ni Gomen-nasai... mooshiwake arimasen.

Post by Destinyheroknight (7,450 posts) See mini bio Level 20

Huh, that interesting

But it never bug me, since Japan is a different culture then the one I'm in and also I thought the characters have love-shyness.

Post by sora_thekey (1,046 posts) See mini bio Level 16
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Hmmm. Interesting! Cultural difference that I didn't know of. Like all cultural differences... I guess we embrace them. o_O

Post by MrDirector786 (2,766 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Interesting to hear.

Post by MohsinMan99 (1,658 posts) See mini bio Level 21

Interesting. But you know, they could also be lying. :)

Post by Supreme Marvel (3,059 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Post by JonSmith (180 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Due to stereotypically displayed Japanese culture, their stated opinion isn't entirely unexpected. If not entirely accurate. Admittedly, I know nothing about Japanese culture, but it's typically represented with strict disciplinary structure, strong adherence to tradition, and possibly as a byproduct, very limited tolerance of social deviancy (i.e. 'free will'). Social deviancy also probably including intercourse that would not be advantageous to the participants family. So while that may not be how it is today, authors of such manga typically represent what should be a 'right and proper' Japanese males response to forward sexual aggression from the opposing gender. Which is what a lot of male's, regardless of actual opinion, would answer to. Same with females.

Post by Sonata (25,658 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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I blame it on Dakimakuras 
 
Post by PenguinDust (937 posts) See mini bio Level 13

No wonder the Japanese population has been on the decline. That's why they make all those animes [example a - example b] about the government mandating marriage for youthful teenage boys and perky, enthusiastic girls.

Anyway, I've always understood that there are two avenues that anime creators are allowed to take when dealing with harems. The boy keeps rejecting all the girls in love with him or the boy is perversely persistent with all the females in his circle and they violently reject him (while secretly being attracted to him). If everyone in the group is consensual, then you've got a hentai or a Utah cult. There's no tension or drama under those circumstances and worst of all, no opportunity for slapstick hilarity. I haven't run into any myself from the many harem shows I've seen, but it would be interesting for an anime to explore a harem situation where the guy and the girls he's with are accepting of their relationship and the drama arises from the jealously between the "wives" and his inability to keep them all happy. Would he actually be in love with any of them? What does the structure of their polygamous union say about their own self esteem and desires? Harem rom-coms are fantasies, through and through because these complex issues are depressing when approached realistically. I do believe that a really talented manga writer could create a dark-comedy that would be fun, though.

@Sonata: You think that's bad. In Thailand, they're marrying the dead.

Post by Sonata (25,658 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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@PenguinDust: This world is a strange place.
Post by sickVisionz (3,063 posts) See mini bio Level 24
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@PenguinDust said:

Anyway, I've always understood that there are two avenues that anime creators are allowed to take when dealing with harems. The boy keeps rejecting all the girls in love with him or the boy is perversely persistent with all the females in his circle and they violently reject him (while secretly being attracted to him). If everyone in the group is consensual, then you've got a hentai or a Utah cult. There's no tension or drama under those circumstances...

Can't say I agree with that in the least. I'd actually go as far as to say that the best ones for tension and drama are ones where there are male-female relationships and not just some dude acting like he hates the idea of physical contact with a woman. Most harems are a weird thing where it's allegedly about relationships but there is no relationship established until (based off of a 13 episode series) the last episode or the one before it.

Post by justanormalguy (268 posts) See mini bio Level 10

So let me try and understand this....

Your issue was the interpretation of how Japanese men and women interest each other in the form of sex.

More Japanese men want sex, while less women want sex.

Your issue is that anime interprets it the opposite, with the women wanting the sex, and the men not wanting it.

Is that it? Cuz if not, I'm kinda confused.

EDIT: and even in the video. 36% of men don't want sex. Still means 64% do.

Now, maybe I'm getting this wrong.

The anime interprets the men of the same age not interested in sex. So by that number, they use it to interpret the same with the real men in Japan who don't want sex. Is that it?

The men are passive in real life, and so they are passive in anime. While the women are strong and active in real life, they are strong and active in the anime as well.

Is that what the interpretation was supposed to be? I'm a little lost.

Also, the WHY is the factor. Why would they not want sex? Is the anime like a "drug" to them? I mean, that's a bad way to think that anime is a drug to them, but is it true? Are they more focused on fictional characters rather than real women? If so, then that is completely wrong and their needs to be adjustments to the anime. If it's causing a major decrease in population and possibly extinction due to them not procreating, then the anime needs to stop there, or at least be monitored. If it's fixation on a fake character, then Houston.... we gotta big problem....

Post by MrDirector786 (2,766 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@PenguinDust said:

@Sonata: You think that's bad. In Thailand, they're marrying the dead.

Seriously? Do you have a link or something?

Post by justanormalguy (268 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@MrDirector786 said:

@PenguinDust said:

@Sonata: You think that's bad. In Thailand, they're marrying the dead.

Seriously? Do you have a link or something?

There was a pic posted....

Post by Destinyheroknight (7,450 posts) See mini bio Level 20

@justanormalguy:

Why would they not want sex? Is the anime like a "drug" to them?

You do know it different factors, it not just Anime.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9CD4MIG0

Post by sickVisionz (3,063 posts) See mini bio Level 24
Moderator

@justanormalguy said:

[deadly serious reply to a joke thread about apologizing to people who don't even exist]

Post by PenguinDust (937 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@sickVisionz said:

@PenguinDust said:

Anyway, I've always understood that there are two avenues that anime creators are allowed to take when dealing with harems. The boy keeps rejecting all the girls in love with him or the boy is perversely persistent with all the females in his circle and they violently reject him (while secretly being attracted to him). If everyone in the group is consensual, then you've got a hentai or a Utah cult. There's no tension or drama under those circumstances...

Can't say I agree with that in the least. I'd actually go as far as to say that the best ones for tension and drama are ones where there are male-female relationships and not just some dude acting like he hates the idea of physical contact with a woman. Most harems are a weird thing where it's allegedly about relationships but there is no relationship established until (based off of a 13 episode series) the last episode or the one before it.

Well, I meant my comment as a broader generalization than an absolute truism, and actually I'd add a third option in which the male laughs-off/ignores the advances of the females smitten with him (the Tenchi response). As you said yourself most harems are about relationships that don't exist until the final episode and, I might add, even then there might be no resolution. "Me and my five girlfriends...still."

You bring up an interesting point that the best ones for tension and drama include a male-female relationship. I was wondering if you could give some examples of harem shows like this. I know there are a multitude of romantic comedies of this variety, but for traditional harems, I am at a loss. I thought maybe Zero no Tsukaima since Saito does seem to exhibit feelings for Lousie and it's her tsundere personality which is the cause for their turmoil, but he grows more lustful as the franchise progressed. I haven't seen anything of the 4th yet, so I'm not sure if there's been a change on that front. Perhaps another tsundere, Hayate the Combat Butler but I didn't find a lot of emotional development between the characters over the course of the two seasons. Hayate and Nagi were pretty much where they began by the end of the show. Granted, I have read that there is more going on in the manga but I'm completely ignorant to that side of the story.

Maybe I am just forgetting stuff.

Post by justanormalguy (268 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Why were my posts to destiny deleted....? o.O

Post by SilverGalford (2,457 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Sonata said:

@PenguinDust: This world is a strange place.

my writing teacher told me that suicide was cool , and he was serious . (he didn't even look like an Emo or someone with those desires, he looked like a "normal" man) . now draw your own conclusions.

Post by Sonata (25,658 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@SilverGalford: That is truly a shame.

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