Naruto 559 (don't view if you haven't read it!)

Topic started by GIRUGAMESH on Oct. 13, 2011. Last post by Lobos_Del_Rayo 3 years, 2 months ago.
Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,243 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Look who's back.

Such an amazing chapter, answered the big question of Kabuto's trump card only to give us an ever bigger one, in the form of Tobi's true identity. I'm looking forward to Madara showing his full powers and going on a killing spree with Muu (unit 4 is pretty much doomed; they have a battle-worn Gaara, a battle-worn Onoki, and a Naruto clone with barely any chakra).

Can't wait for the next one.

Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@GIRUGAMESH: This is going to be really good. I'm almost sure now that some good guys are going to die. But now I wanna know how Madara knows Nagato

ND

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,243 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Newdeath said:

@GIRUGAMESH: This is going to be really good. I'm almost sure now that some good guys are going to die. But now I wanna know how Madara knows Nagato

ND

Yeah, a lot of people are saying that Tobi is Madara's brother, or that Madara found a way to split his soul (hence his obsession with becoming complete). But the Nagato thing is an issue for this (as Madara would have died before Nagato was born). The only thing that could allow for this would be that there was another Nagato (though this would be pretty lame). Plus IMO Madara's brother is too small-time for the role of main villain.

It can't be Obito, it would be out of character and he's definitely not a big enough character for it to be him. It can't be any of the hokages.

My guess therefore is that the current Tobi is the first son of the SOT6P, the one filled with hate. Nearly everything seems to fit with this theory: he has an intense hatred of konoha, he would have been powerful enough to give Nagato his rinnegan (no ordinary uchiha could have acquired it, and he stated it belonged to him in the first place), he wishes to become complete (seizing his father's power), and he could have conspired with Madara before his death, telling him that he would be reborn one day through the rinnegan of Nagato (he may have deemed him a worthy Uchiha).

The only problem with this is the scene where Madara fought Konan; everything he said here would have suggested that he was Madara. If he knew she was about to die, he proably would have revealed it to her.

It could still be pretty much anyone :S

Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@GIRUGAMESH: Well it would be cool if it was Izuna but I'd like it to be a very cool character but one that we don't expect. I really wouldn't like it if Kishi reveals that Madara split his soul and right now I think it's likely that he was lying when he claimed that he wanted to complete, maybe he just said that to throw people off his real goal. Well for Madara to know Nagato could mean that either Tobi promised Madara that he would revive him using Nagato's powers but then didn't as a form of betrayal or maybe Madara himself had a deal with Nagato, this implies that Madara must not have been killed by Hashirama and died much later since he knows Nagato.

I wouldn't be too surprised if it was Obito. The fact that only Tobi and Kakashi have space-time Mangekyo Sharingan powers give Obito theorists something to hang on until they reveal that it isn't Obito. Also, Kishi is the author, he can troll us in 5 seconds :P

I've considered Tobi as the first son of the Sage, the one who inherited his eyes instead of his will. But one thing that seriously puts me off that theory is the fact that Tobi was clearly scared when Kabuto summoned Madara to blackmail him. If Tobi was the Sage's son then his ocular powers would be nearly as great as the Sage's Rinnegan and much much stronger than Madara's EMS but maybe. It's very likely.

Once I came across a theory that Tobi might in fact be a Zetsu or a Zetsu clone of maybe Madara or somebody else. Some suggest this because when he fought Konan and lost his arms, you could see some white Zetsu-like substance where his arm once was.

Too true :P

ND

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,243 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Newdeath: Very true, there's still plenty of room for speculation here.

Yeah that was another major problem for my theory, if he had been the son of the sage he wouldn't have freaked out like he did. His reaction was too strong for it to simply suggest he was scared that someone knew his true identity. I still wouldn't entirely rule it out though, as there is a fair bit to suggest this is the case (see my other comment). I still don't see who else it could be, given that he possessed the rinnegan beforehand and gave it to nagato. Neither Izuna nor Obito could have done that.

Whilst it seems very likely that Tobi had some sort of deal with Madara regarding Nagato, I seriously doubt that Madara himself made a deal with Nagato. This is because the resurrected Madara looks the same age (if not slightly older) than when he fought Harashima (long before Nagato was born).

It could well be Obito, though I would hate this to be the case and I would trust Kishi not to do something as dumb as that. To have a character from Kakashi's past, not to mention one who simply isn't that central to the story, as the main villain of the war would feel very anticlimactic IMO. The uber zetsu clone is also a possibility...

Sadly we probably won't know the truth for at least another dozen chapters or so :(

Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@GIRUGAMESH: True. Neither Izuna nor Obito could have given Nagato the Rinnegan, it simply wouldn't be plausible if it was Obito who had given him the Rinnegan. The only way I can see it being Obito is if Kishi later reveals that Tobi was lying when he made the claim of being the one who gave Nagato the Rinnegan.

I think so as well. It must have been Tobi himself who made a deal with Madara regarding Nagato, I think there's some betrayal in the story if this is true because I think that not only did Kabuto use Madara to scare Tobi but Tobi himself might not just have been fearing Kabuto using Madara's power but Madara somehow breaking free of Kabuto's control and seeking out revenge on Tobi for a possible betrayal.

That is true. The Zetsu clone would be acceptable. I remember coming across some who believe it is even Minato. That would really be crazy.

Well it's always like that. We had to wait quite some time to find out that Madara was the one in the sixth coffin.

ND

Post by sickVisionz (4,311 posts) See mini bio Level 24
Moderator

It's making no sense at all right now so i'll wait for Kishi to explain it.

If it was Obito, how he survived having half his body crushed is beyond me, although being crippled as missing an eye would explain how "Tobidara" gets his ass kicked all throughout time and space despite the Uchiha have an insane number of over powered abilities. Obito sucked and when Kakashi told him that he was garbage, he said that it didn't matter if he sucked because once his sharingan unlocked he would be better than most non-Uchiha so him actually being a talented ninja didn't matter. I could see someone like that relying on eye tricks and getting his ass kicked all the time like Tobidara does. In some ways Tobidara makes sense, but why on Earth does he hate the Leaf so much? When Sasuke and Tobito came across Kakashi and Team 7, you'd think Tobito might have said something to his former partner.

For the Vicers, have fun reseparating the Madara and Tobi pages and possibly having to combine Tobi and Obito.

Post by Destinyheroknight (10,389 posts) See mini bio Level 21

I still believe it was an alright chapter (I was kind of hoping it was someone else).

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,243 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@sickVisionz said:

It's making no sense at all right now so i'll wait for Kishi to explain it.

If it was Obito, how he survived having half his body crushed is beyond me, although being crippled as missing an eye would explain how "Tobidara" gets his ass kicked all throughout time and space despite the Uchiha have an insane number of over powered abilities. Obito sucked and when Kakashi told him that he was garbage, he said that it didn't matter if he sucked because once his sharingan unlocked he would be better than most non-Uchiha so him actually being a talented ninja didn't matter. I could see someone like that relying on eye tricks and getting his ass kicked all the time like Tobidara does. In some ways Tobidara makes sense, but why on Earth does he hate the Leaf so much? When Sasuke and Tobito came across Kakashi and Team 7, you'd think Tobito might have said something to his former partner.

For the Vicers, have fun reseparating the Madara and Tobi pages and possibly having to combine Tobi and Obito.

I still refuse to believe that Obito is Tobi; if this does turn out to be the case then Kishi has left his story full of holes. I shall state the main reasons again:

1. He was crushed by a boulder (though it is possible Zetsu could have preserved it).

2. Why would he have an incentive to attack Konoha? To cause Kakashi so much pain?

3. He's simply far too strong to be Obito.

4. Obito is just a character from Kakashi's past; he isn't central enough to Naruto and the main story for him to be the main villain at this stage.

5. (the biggest one of all) How the hell could Obito have given Nagato the rinnegan? How could Obito have ever possessed it? Not to mention that Nagato would have been about the same age as Obito; how could this possibly fit into the timeline?

Once again, if it does turn out to be Obito, the credibility of the series goes up in smoke as far as I'm concerned.

Post by sickVisionz (4,311 posts) See mini bio Level 24
Moderator

@GIRUGAMESH: I would be happy with Obito if the reveal was that the boulder crushing drove him mad and he's just an insane man in a mask who for some reason thinks he's Madara Uchiha.

I'd LOL if the war ended with Naruto or Sasuke telling him, "you know you're not really Madara, right?" and he screams out no and disappears into his suction eye.

Post by Dream (8,323 posts) See mini bio Level 21
Online Now
Moderator
Okay if that's Madara, then who the hell is the masked man masquerading about as him?
Post by sonkuhan (3 posts) See mini bio Level 4

i believe it is Izuna Uchiha i found a website that has the translations for the manga no images but it seems accurate, let me know what you think http://narutomangareader.blogspot.com/

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,243 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@sickVisionz said:

@GIRUGAMESH: I would be happy with Obito if the reveal was that the boulder crushing drove him mad and he's just an insane man in a mask who for some reason thinks he's Madara Uchiha.

I'd LOL if the war ended with Naruto or Sasuke telling him, "you know you're not really Madara, right?" and he screams out no and disappears into his suction eye.

Lol you don't have very high expectations for the series do you?

Although that would be a hilarious (though meaningless) ending XD

@sonkuhan said:

i believe it is Izuna Uchiha i found a website that has the translations for the manga no images but it seems accurate, let me know what you think http://narutomangareader.blogspot.com/

It's a possibility, but there are some problems with it all the same. Izuna simply isn't epic enough to be the main villain, plus it doesn't solve the dilemma of how he acquired the rinnegan. Though this does seem far more likely to me than Obito.

Post by lagoonboy2 (48 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@GIRUGAMESH: Well, wouldn't be the less epic man be the better choice? It will absolutely give readers something to think about next time there's a mystery, and will make it more unpredictable?

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,243 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@lagoonboy2 said:

@GIRUGAMESH: Well, wouldn't be the less epic man be the better choice? It will absolutely give readers something to think about next time there's a mystery, and will make it more unpredictable?

Naruto is an epic anime, not a mystery thriller; a story of battle and emotional growth, not a whodunnit-style murder mystery. You need someone more central to the plot to make it more meaningful when they finally face him, and there are a high enough number of potential identities for Tobi to retain a sense of mystery without having to use characters that are barely relevant to the story.

Post by sickVisionz (4,311 posts) See mini bio Level 24
Moderator

@lagoonboy2 said:

@GIRUGAMESH: Well, wouldn't be the less epic man be the better choice? It will absolutely give readers something to think about next time there's a mystery, and will make it more unpredictable?

I think you're confusing Naruto as a deep, story-driven show and not something made for children and based around a never ending series of fights and power-ups.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,243 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@sickVisionz said:

@lagoonboy2 said:

@GIRUGAMESH: Well, wouldn't be the less epic man be the better choice? It will absolutely give readers something to think about next time there's a mystery, and will make it more unpredictable?

I think you're confusing Naruto as a deep, story-driven show and not something made for children and based around a never ending series of fights and power-ups.

To some extent it is pretty deep, though I may have gotten carried away slightly with that description :S (though evidently you aren't a major fan of it).

Still, having a character as the main villain with absolutely no relevance to the main character would be a bit silly. If Kakashi was the main character then I would support it whole-heartedly. Obito is a minor character fans, deal with it.

Post by Lobos_Del_Rayo (2,906 posts) See mini bio Level 12

The reason I doubt it Obito is far more simple than this. If we are to assume that Tobi is just an aliases for who ever they may be then wouldn't it be kinda pathetic if it was Obito think about Tobi has put together this whole master plan turning the moon into a giant Sharingan to cast Tsukuyomi over the planet, capturing the tail beast, forming Akatsuki, etc. So you are telling me if Obito is really Tobi then the best aliases/secret identity was just moving some letters in his original name....told you is was simple

Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@Lobos_Del_Rayo: It's more likely that Tobi is Kagami Uchiha or a Zetsu clone of Madara.

ND

Post by sickVisionz (4,311 posts) See mini bio Level 24
Moderator

@Newdeath: Zetsu would be god level if he could make clones as powerful as Tobi.

@Lobos_Del_Rayo: Isn't there something about the simplest answer being the most likely answer, all things considered?

@GIRUGAMESH: Nah, I actually love Naruto anime. When it's good it's awesome and dark (or extremely silly) and people bust out crazy insane powers that get used in awesomely animated fights. It's got flaws though.

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