Omnipotence And Understanding It

Topic started by LelouchCommandsYou on Dec. 12, 2013. Last post by takashichea 4 months ago.
Post by LelouchCommandsYou (77 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Omnipotence. It's a power that, I have notice, get's thrown around a lot as if it was a common power amongst many more seen characters than it actually is.

For starters, let's talk about omnipotence. Specifically what people here seem to think it is. People here seem to think that it's a power that has a starting minimum and a maximum. The problem being is that it has no minimum. Only a maximum. For an example, someone on here might say something like "This character is omnipotent because he can bust a universe". First off, that is not omnipotence. That's just being really powerful. That is just ONE of the INFINITE, and BEYOND, things an omnipotent character can do.

A character must meet a very ridiculous amount of conditions to meet omnipotence. Now let's talk about what omnipotence REALLY is.

Omnipotence as stated by Powerlistings Wikia must include all of these applications.

  • Omniarch - Rule all things.
  • Omnicompetence - Handle all situations or matters.
  • Hypercompetence - Be absolutely skilled in every possible field.
  • Omnifarious - Take on any and all existing forms, shapes, varieties, or kinds.
  • Omnificence - Create anything and everything from nothing.
  • Almighty Object - Create artifacts of nigh limitless power.
  • Omnireplication - Duplicate anything.
  • Omnilingualism - Decipher and speak any language.
  • Omnilock - Exist outside of everything.
  • Freedom - Be absolutely free of any boundaries even from destiny.
  • Omnipresence - Be everywhere in existence at once.
  • Omniscience - Know everything and anything.
    • Enlightenment - Possess full comprehension of the universe/multiverse.

As you can see, to be omnipotent, you must be able to use these applications. For these are all things that a true omnipotent character can do. Now let's see some specific examples of the powers it possesses. Keep in mind that omnipotence possesses all powers and abilities. While power listing Wiki list the following as variations, that is not true omnipotence. For example, you must be able to destroy as much as you can restore to be omnipotent.

  • Complete Arsenal - Have every power.
  • Ability Resilience - User's powers are immune to all alterations.
  • Absolute Condition - Have the ultimate levels of strength, speed, intellect, etc.
  • Absolute Existence - Total control over their own existence.
  • Absolute Force Manipulation - Control, create, shape and destroy all forces.
  • Absolute Probability Manipulation - Control all possibilities
  • Absolute Restoration - Restore everything back to their natural state.
  • Absolute Will -The power to control and manipulate anything.
  • Almighty Law - Create and control the law that is unbreakable and is the Alpha law.
  • Almighty Replication - Replicate all powers.
  • Alpha Reality - Rewrite the laws of reality without limit.
  • Amortality - The user is beyond life and death.
  • Absolute Immortality - Total, absolute immortality.
  • Boundary Manipulation - Complete control of all boundaries.
  • Causality Manipulation - Compete control of the cause/effect relation.
  • Conceptualization - Create/manipulate/erase all Concepts.
  • Cycle Manipulation - manipulate the cycles of existence (creation, existence, destruction).
  • Destruction - Destroy anything and everything.
  • Apocalyptic Force Manipulation - control the final force.
  • Existence Manipulation - Manipulate the entirety of existence itself.
  • Primordial Force Manipulation - Manipulate the prime force.
  • Existential Plane Manipulation - Manipulate all planes of existence.
  • Grand Design Construction - creating, sorting, preserving the universe.
  • Indomitable Will - Being totally unstoppable.
  • Logic Manipulation- Control and defy logic without limit
  • Maximum Quintessenal Control - Control infinite amounts of spiritual force.
  • Nonexistence - Completely erase any kind of existence.
  • Omnicide - Kill all life at once.
  • Omni-Magic - Manipulate all forms of magic.
  • Omni-Negation - Negate and nullify everything.
  • Omnifabricating - Invent anything with varying capabilities.
  • Omniverse Manipulation - Control all universes.
  • Origin Manipulation - Manipulate the origin of all that is.
  • Paradox Manipulation - Override the laws of reality, logic and common sense.
  • Perspective Manipulation - Manipulate the Perspective.
  • Preservation - Preserve Everything
  • Physical Godhood - Break and bend all scientific laws and concepts
  • Separation - Separate/Divide Everything.
  • Singularity - By essence is truly Unique.
  • Supernatural Manipulation - Control everything supernatural.
  • Superpower Manipulation - Create, control and delete powers on an infinite level.
  • Power Augmentation - Can increase and amplify special abilities to infinite power-levels.
  • Power Immunity - Be immune to any and all external powers and effects.
  • Power Link - manipulate the power link.
  • Meta Ability Creation - Can create whatever power one wants with no limits.
  • Totality Manipulation - Rule/Control/Preserve/Create/Destroy all Totality.
  • Ultimate Invincibility - Be absolutely invincible.
  • Universal Irreversibility - Actions cannot be stopped or reversed.
  • Unimind - Be one with all minds.
  • Unity - Be one with all and be everything.

Now let's look at some characters I know that fans have called omnipotent that don't meet the requirement. We'll start with some minor examples. To put your nerves at ease their is one thing an omnipotent must meet. NONE MUST BE HIGHER AND GREATER THAN HIM.

Goku

  • Fan-Excuse: He merged with shenron and became a god.
  • Truth: No one knows what happened. But all we can tell is that there probably is an almighty in Dragon Ball. And Shenron and Goku aren't it. While it's true we don't know how strong he got at the end of GT, it's obvious he never became omnipotent. A thing that no ammount of training could ever achieve.

Bills (DBZ Battle Of Gods)

  • Fan-Excuse: He's the god of destruction so he can destroy anything.
  • Truth: He's only the god of destruction of the seventh universe and IIRC he's the weakest. How can a god who can destroy ANYTHING have anyone stronger than him? Plus he needs to be the god of all aspects listed above to be an omni. Not just destruction.

Hao/Zeke (Shaman King)

  • Fan-Excuse: He became Shaman King so he recieved the Great Spirit as a guardian ghost.
  • Truth: The Great Spirit is most likely god and higher than the actual Shaman King. You could say that the Shaman King is only his right hand man who does all his work for him. And he most likely, even while Shaman King, could fall from his graces and lose his title.

Haruhi

  • Fan-Excuse: She's been claimed as god and created the universe. And can do anything.
  • Truth: She isn't even aware of her powers. God would have total cosmic awareness. Even towards oneself. She is only a reality warper. And she is a probably a medium one at that. An example of a high tier reality warper would be Mxy or better known as Mister Myxlplyx. He can essentially touch a multiverse and bend the rules using 5th dimensional imp powers and could do things like make fire freeze water or make a baby come out of a stone wall and make that baby age and mature in a nano second.

Arceus

  • Fan-Excuse: He created the Poke'mon universe and Dialga and Palkia created a universe.
  • Truth: He's not the true creator of all things. At least not canon wise. There is nothing in any games past or before Sinnoh's that state that. It was even called Sinnoh LORE thus myth. If Arceus could be captured by a masterball then he ain't god. And who's to say that the universes you BELIEVE you saw created were not small universes? Many beings can create dimensions, but they are usually much smaller than the creators own universe of origin. Creation feats don't equal omnipotence. And if Arceus wanted to destroy all the humans, then don't you think he could have in the twelfth movie? And don't tell me he was weakened. GOD DOES NOT WEAKEN. EVER. PERIOD. YOU KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE.

Now let's look at some characters who are more widely believed to be omnipotent beings due to sheer awesome and illogical raw power and manipulation.

Superman Prime One Million

  • Fan-Excuse: HE IS TEH SUPERMAN AND IS GOD. HE CAN LIFT TEH MULTIVERSE AND BUST ALL OF CREATION. HE IS TEH GOD AND WE WILL WORSHIP HIM!!! But all joking aside, the usual excuse is that he spent 15,000 years in the sun or so and travelled the universe, got the most powerful Green Lantern ring in existence, and went through the source wall, recieving a PORTION (Not all of it) of the Sources power.
  • Truth: He's not even half the shit people claim about him. He's incredibly powerful but is a featless wonder. While he is absurdly powerful, The Presence (A true omnipotent) is still infinitely more powerful and will remain that way throughout all of time and space. Whatever power Supes got during his 700-15,000 years of sun dipping and space traveling, will amount to nothing in the face of DC's official god. And The Presence CAN and WILL take that power away from him if he so desires it.

Kami Tenchi (Tenchi Muyo OVA)

  • Fan-Excuse: He created the three goddesses the Chousin (Who they also claim is omnipotent. There cannot be more than one) who created the universe and is more powerful than them.
  • Truth: While he seems to meet many of the requirements, there is one thing he lacks. OFFICIAL confirmation that he is the god of anything past the OVA universe and anything linked to it. Tenchi Universe and Tenchi In Tokyo are what make it a multiverse and are completely different. And to be god of all, means you must also rule that multiverse as well with clear signs of it. Otherwise it's just fan speculation.

Galactus

  • Fan-Excuse: He is so powerful that he can destroy galaxies and has the Power Cosmic and can grant people a portion of it and make them planet busters (At least I think they are). He also has the UN/Ultimate Nullifier.
  • Truth: He is very powerful yes. And is essential to the rebirth of the universe. However he can be killed. And his Ultimate Nullifier can be stolen and used on him. It might be what killed him that one time in the comics. And the only omnipotent being in Marvel is TOAA/The One Above All (If he's even considered a character. Which for this we'll assume that).

Zeedmillenniummon

  • Fan-Excuse: He's a multiversal threat.
  • Truth: While he may be that (I doubt it. But for the sake of simplicity let's assume he is), he isn't the RULER of all reality in Digimon. The ruler of all reality cannot be stopped. And Zeedmilluniumon was put in binds that suppress his powers. That's not god.

Mr. Mxyzptlk

  • Fan-Excuse: He's a 5th dimensional imp and can use their advanced technology for anything ranging from manipulating the multiverse and rearranging it piece by piece to fit his image.
  • Truth: He's capable of that. But he's incapable of it if the Presence says he is and if he says no. The Presence could easily wipe out his entire race and nothing could change that. The Presence could make it that they never existed in the first place, and no reality warping will change that.

Now let's look at some characters who are Omnipotent. They meet the entire list of abilities and no one is above them in their respective universes/multiverses.

The Presence

  • Reason he is omnipotent: He possesses fully unsurpassable power over all of creation in all of DC. The things like The Source are just his power given a physical form. Not one single entity is above him in DC.

TOAA (The One Above All)

  • Reason he is omnipotent: He possesses fully unsurpassable power over all of creation in all of Marvel. Not one single entity is above him in Marvel.

Now that you have read this, you should now know not to throw around the term omnipotent lightly. Favorite characters do not equal omnipotent unless they meet the standards listed here. It's quite vexing when characters are being labeled as omnipotent just so that they can have a reason to beat other characters. And there is no such thing as nigh-omnipotent. To be nigh means to be close. Nothing is close to omnipotent. The gap is eternal and infinite between all who are and aren't omnipotent.

Now if you think a character meets these standards, then do explain why. And if I find that these characters are unproven, then don't expect me to agree with you. And don't expect others to either. Proven means stated and shown to be true. It can't be hyperbole.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,736 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@LelouchCommandsYou: amazing thread. I also love your entire post! Wow! Amazing.

Post by Dream (7,902 posts) See mini bio Level 21
Moderator

What about the Lord of Nightmares of the Slayers franchise? She's also considered an arguable omnipotent being.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,736 posts) See mini bio Level 17

Mmmm...where would Toon Force go on this list?

Post by Shadowchaos (2,804 posts) See mini bio Level 13

U-DO from Xenosaga?

Post by ImDictatorBowDown (2,111 posts) See mini bio Level 13

There is no understanding omnipotents, we cannot say for sure whether or not any of the characters shown are omnipotent we can only prove them to not be once they show a limit, to be truly Omnipotent would a contradiction as the concept of Omnipotence itself is fundamentally an oxymoron, "can an omnipotent being create something greater than itself?" It's impossible to interpret and always leads to meaningless debates.

Post by phantomrant (1,401 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@ImDictatorBowDown said:

There is no understanding omnipotents, we cannot say for sure whether or not any of the characters shown are omnipotent we can only prove them to not be once they show a limit, to be truly Omnipotent would a contradiction as the concept of Omnipotence itself is fundamentally an oxymoron, "can an omnipotent being create something greater than itself?" It's impossible to interpret and always leads to meaningless debates.

Pretty much this.

Omnipotence is a non-existent term, although generally people know what yer mean in terms of battle applications. All of the characters listed can be stretched to be omnipotent, or be debunked to be non-omnipotent.

Post by LelouchCommandsYou (77 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@DBZ_universe: I really appreciate the comment. It took me essentially 4 hours to actually come up with all the text put into it.

Post by LelouchCommandsYou (77 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Shadowchaos: Possibly. From what I have just read on it, it seems it could be debated to be true. It might possibly be the god of that universe. Or it might just be a resident of the realm that god exists in.

Post by Shadowchaos (2,804 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@LelouchCommandsYou: they over use the term god in series cause they call chaos god in the series sometimes but he is only at Jesus level.

Post by LelouchCommandsYou (77 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Shadowchaos: I don't think you can actually accurately describe what Jesus power is like. But if you just mean in the sense that he's a messiah of sorts then I can see what you are saying.

Post by LelouchCommandsYou (77 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Dream: It's arguable. From what I've read at least. Don't know much about her in terms of experience with the series.

Post by KingOfAsh (1,391 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@Dream said:

What about the Lord of Nightmares of the Slayers franchise? She's also considered an arguable omnipotent being.

Created several infinite multiverses, the writer confirmed she/it is omnipotent, she beats up the writer himself with a shovel.

Post by KingOfAsh (1,391 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Primal Monito may actually be the omnipotent of DC. It's debatable. Unless the writers decided to have an omnipotent for the mainstream universe and one for the Vertigo-that's-in-DC universe. Techniqually it's not likely, but imagination-wise you can have several omnipotents (particularly if they don't oppose each other).

Post by MarioRedfield (1,866 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@DBZ_universe said:

Mmmm...where would Toon Force go on this list?

Non-omnipotent

Post by LelouchCommandsYou (77 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@KingOfAsh: They won't be omnipotent then. If they are not above all else, then they are not omnipotent. It can't actually be a shared power. And they won't be omnipotent unless they are superior to the other. It will always bring to question "How are they omnipotent if they cannot subjugate the other omni's?" If it is a shared power then it's not really going to be seperate characters. They would more than likely be multiple bodies being occupied by one shared conscious. And most likely the fans would label that conscious with a fan name. And thus it would still be only one omnipotent, but he chooses to act in more than one body.

Plus The Presence is so far the actual GOD of DC in most cases. There is practically no room to think the monitor could be superior. If they do think that, then it's them ignoring the actual evidence. Most stories in DC represent The Presence as god. The Abrahamic god. While other stories represent him as the one who absorbed the most of the god wave which created all the other gods of DC. And absorbing the most would make him superior by far to all the other gods. And the Monitor isn't' even immortal. He died when he tried to create the protective netherverse.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,736 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@MarioRedfield said:

@DBZ_universe said:

Mmmm...where would Toon Force go on this list?

Non-omnipotent

They can make them selves into Omnitoonpotent.

Post by othus12 (7,302 posts) See mini bio Level 13

but can an omnipotent being create a material so durable not even himself can destroy? if so doesnt that violate his own ominpotence no matter what he does?

Post by Shadowchaos (2,804 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@LelouchCommandsYou:here is something from the perfect guide

<<The Lemegeton Left Behind in Books>>

From the Lemegeton that chaos "spoke", the Messiah replaced it with some kind of words, and left it behind for future generations. The chanting of the words was something like a ritual, and there was meaning in the ritual itself; there was meaning in the wave itself that was emitted. There was no meaning in the words themselves that had been replaced in order to pronounce the wave. There may have been much degredation by reducing the waveform-- which is not able to be naturally emitted-- to the level of language. But even so, using the words, and linking to the Zohar, people came to be able to channel energy from the upper domain. At least, they had obtained that possibility.

chaos thought that it would be helpful for the sake of man's happiness. That very reason is why he agreed for Lemegeton to be written down in books, passing it on to future generations, and he accepted the possibility that someone other than himself would come to be able to use it. However, chaos's wish did not come true, as evidenced by the history afterwards.

<<Words of the Messiah's Disciple that were Left Behind>>

chaos, who acted as a disciple of the man called the Messiah in the time of Lost Jerusalem, left words behind. They were words for the sake of leading energy of the upper domain to the lower domain. By means of those words, chaos performed many miracles. It isn't concretely known what kind of miracles they were, but because chaos, a disciple of the Messiah, performed them, people perhaps found hope in the Messiah.

The desire to "want to use power as my own", is usual in the world of Man. However, a normal man using his vocal chords could not produce Lemegeton. It wasn't simply a sound; perhaps it should be considered to be something like a special wave that was able to be produced because of the very fact that chaos was the manifestation of the power of Anima.

Post by LelouchCommandsYou (77 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@othus12: No matter what he can do anything. He could make it to where he can't break it for the moment. But he can always break it if he has to. The only thing that can't happen is that someone else who can break it can break him. Because when the omnipotent being made it that he himself couldn't break it, then it was most likely due to him not using the max power of his omnipotence.

In the end, the main thing about omnipotence is that you are not lower than anyone. And no one can topple you. No matter what.

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