How strong IS Kagato?

Topic started by ronki23 on April 4, 2013. Last post by takashichea 5 months, 3 weeks ago.
Post by ronki23 (85 posts) See mini bio Level 8

Kagato scared Washu (a freaking Goddess) with the power to destroy the Earth with one of Ryoko’s gem and his own gems. How many gems did the Souja have?

Kagato without Souja owned Ryoko with one gem.

Ryoko at full power with one gem could have beaten Kagato but Ryoko was holding back initially. Aeyeka was saved so Ryoko could go full power- even full power,one gem Ryoko lost through Kagato’s fake gems.

Yosho with two gems was fighting evenly with Kagato but Yosho gave up. Why didn’t Yosho kill him?

Souja could destroy the Earth and that was with a combination of one of Ryoko’s gems and its own gems. That means Souja couldn’t even destroy the Earth without extra power.

I guess this means Kagato can not destroy the Earth but he controlled Ryoko with three gems which means he can control the power of the Universe AND he imprisoned Washu. But even with this power he can only destroy Earth.

So I guess

God Tenchi> the 3 Gods of the Multiverse= Z (who stood up to Tokimi)> 3 gems TENCHI who can destroy the Universe > Souja with fake gems and one gem can destroy a planet> Yosho with 2 gems=Kagato but neither of these old guys can destroy a planet>Ryoko with one gem> Ryoko with no gems=Aeyeka (Aeyeka always fights with Ryoko and in one episode they were fighting evenly to get into Tenchi’s room).

Compared to my favourite manga

Even Vegeta could destroy Earth with the Gallick Gun in Saiyan Saga so why does Souja’s power scare Washu if Souja still needed Ryoko’s power to destroy Earth?

We all know God Tenchi could destroy the Omniverse > 3 Goddesses (inc Washu)who could destroy the Multiverse > Vegetto and Z > Buuhan and 3 Wing Tenchi who could destroy the Universe but Kagato’s not even SSJ1 :/

Post by Dream (7,499 posts) See mini bio Level 21
Moderator

Guess I get to play Tenchi expert...

Kagato scared Washu (a freaking Goddess) with the power to destroy the Earth with one of Ryoko’s gem and his own gems. How many gems did the Souja have?

Just to be clear, Washu's memories and powers as one of the Choushin were sealed in the three gems that Ryoko draws her power from and she doesn't regain them until the end of the series when dealing with Z. Her fear from Kagato came from underestimating him and not knowing of how his powers developed over the millenia she was sealed in the Soja's other dimension.

Kagato without Souja owned Ryoko with one gem.

Ryoko can only draw on a limited amount of power from her gems at a time since her body hasn't matured enough to control their full power. At that point within the OVAs, Kagato's body was capable of drawing upon more power than Ryoko could.

Ryoko at full power with one gem could have beaten Kagato but Ryoko was holding back initially. Aeyeka was saved so Ryoko could go full power- even full power,one gem Ryoko lost through Kagato’s fake gems.

Again, Washu was saying this under the assumption Kagato was still as powerful as he was before she was sealed. She had no knowledge of the advancements in Kagato's power during the years she was sealed.

Yosho with two gems was fighting evenly with Kagato but Yosho gave up. Why didn’t Yosho kill him?

Yosho can't draw upon Ryoko's gems to boost his abilities, as being Kagato's equal in combat at that point came from his own abilities as a swordsman. Yosho giving up came from him knowing he wouldn't be able to kill Kagato thanks to his foe not demonstrating his full power and would need to rely on Tenchi's power to stop him.

Souja could destroy the Earth and that was with a combination of one of Ryoko’s gems and its own gems. That means Souja couldn’t even destroy the Earth without extra power.

Don't you remember the Galaxy Police briefing Mihoshi had with her superior regarding Kagato? The Soja was responsible for destroying hundreds of planets thanks to Kagato's search for the ultimate power (Tsunami) that he had heard about. His attack on Earth was to be a demonstration of his ship's power.

And Ryoko wasn't in possession of her gems when she attacked the Soja. She created a replica gem to replace the one she lost when her arm was cut off by Yosho when she was being controlled by Kagato. The gems aboard the Soja were absorbing Ryoko's life force to build up their power.

I guess this means Kagato can not destroy the Earth but he controlled Ryoko with three gems which means he can control the power of the Universe AND he imprisoned Washu. But even with this power he can only destroy Earth.

He could easily destroy Earth with the Soja. It's just Tsunami's Light Hawk Wings were strong enough as a defense to easily tank the Soja's blast. My earlier explanations cover what you perceive to be contradictions to Kagato's power.

God Tenchi> the 3 Gods of the Multiverse > 3 gems TENCHI who can destroy the Universe > Z > Souja with fake gems can destroy a planet> Kagato > Yosho > Ryoko with one gem> Ryoko with no gems=Aeyeka (Aeyeka always fights with Ryoko and in one episode they were fighting evenly to get into Tenchi’s room)

Changed it for you.

We all know God Tenchi could destroy the Omniverse > 3 Goddesses (inc Washu)who could destroy the Multiverse > Z > 3 Wing Tenchi who could destroy the Universe > Vegetto > Buuhan > Kagato.

Again, fixed for you. Anyone from DBZ would be screwed against Z and Tenchi thanks to how ridiculously broken the Light Hawk Wings are as a defense and offensive ability (any strike from an LHW phases anything out of existence save for more powerful beings).

Post by ronki23 (85 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Dream said:

Guess I get to play Tenchi expert...

Kagato scared Washu (a freaking Goddess) with the power to destroy the Earth with one of Ryoko’s gem and his own gems. How many gems did the Souja have?

Just to be clear, Washu's memories and powers as one of the Choushin were sealed in the three gems that Ryoko draws her power from and she doesn't regain them until the end of the series when dealing with Z. Her fear from Kagato came from underestimating him and not knowing of how his powers developed over the millenia she was sealed in the Soja's other dimension.

Kagato without Souja owned Ryoko with one gem.

Ryoko can only draw on a limited amount of power from her gems at a time since her body hasn't matured enough to control their full power. At that point within the OVAs, Kagato's body was capable of drawing upon more power than Ryoko could.

Ryoko at full power with one gem could have beaten Kagato but Ryoko was holding back initially. Aeyeka was saved so Ryoko could go full power- even full power,one gem Ryoko lost through Kagato’s fake gems.

Again, Washu was saying this under the assumption Kagato was still as powerful as he was before she was sealed. She had no knowledge of the advancements in Kagato's power during the years she was sealed.

Yosho with two gems was fighting evenly with Kagato but Yosho gave up. Why didn’t Yosho kill him?

Yosho can't draw upon Ryoko's gems to boost his abilities, as being Kagato's equal in combat at that point came from his own abilities as a swordsman. Yosho giving up came from him knowing he wouldn't be able to kill Kagato thanks to his foe not demonstrating his full power and would need to rely on Tenchi's power to stop him.

Souja could destroy the Earth and that was with a combination of one of Ryoko’s gems and its own gems. That means Souja couldn’t even destroy the Earth without extra power.

Don't you remember the Galaxy Police briefing Mihoshi had with her superior regarding Kagato? The Soja was responsible for destroying hundreds of planets thanks to Kagato's search for the ultimate power (Tsunami) that he had heard about. His attack on Earth was to be a demonstration of his ship's power.

And Ryoko wasn't in possession of her gems when she attacked the Soja. She created a replica gem to replace the one she lost when her arm was cut off by Yosho when she was being controlled by Kagato. The gems aboard the Soja were absorbing Ryoko's life force to build up their power.

I guess this means Kagato can not destroy the Earth but he controlled Ryoko with three gems which means he can control the power of the Universe AND he imprisoned Washu. But even with this power he can only destroy Earth.

He could easily destroy Earth with the Soja. It's just Tsunami's Light Hawk Wings were strong enough as a defense to easily tank the Soja's blast. My earlier explanations cover what you perceive to be contradictions to Kagato's power.

God Tenchi> the 3 Gods of the Multiverse > 3 gems TENCHI who can destroy the Universe > Z > Souja with fake gems can destroy a planet> Kagato > Yosho > Ryoko with one gem> Ryoko with no gems=Aeyeka (Aeyeka always fights with Ryoko and in one episode they were fighting evenly to get into Tenchi’s room)

Changed it for you.

We all know God Tenchi could destroy the Omniverse > 3 Goddesses (inc Washu)who could destroy the Multiverse > Z > 3 Wing Tenchi who could destroy the Universe > Vegetto > Buuhan > Kagato.

Again, fixed for you. Anyone from DBZ would be screwed against Z and Tenchi thanks to how ridiculously broken the Light Hawk Wings are as a defense and offensive ability (any strike from an LHW phases anything out of existence save for more powerful beings).

Firstly, didn't Washu regain the memories without all 3 gems?

But Yosho defeated Ryoko who had 3 gems and took 2 of them and then used that power to seal her away. In the fight against Kagato he beat Ryoko again. I'm sure as a Jurain he could have used the power of the gems (he DID take them from Ryoko the first time).

As for Kagato's power with the Souja, even Saiyan Saga Vegeta could destroy Earth,

Maybe the difference in the developed Souja and the Souja's new power is the difference between Saiyan Saga Vegeta and Frieza? Vegeta at 24,000 could destroy Earth and Frieza at 120,000,000 could destroy any other planet? The problem is Kagato was only going to destroy Earth and he's destroyed many other planets before showing Souja's full power but Earth is not even a big planet so we don't know how powerful it really is. Allegedly Ryoko with the help of Ryo Ohki destroyed some planets.

Maybe you could say Kagato is like Frieza and Ryoko like Vegeta in terms of power difference as all four destroyed planets but Frieza/Kagato were obviously stronger; Vegeta EVENTUALLY surpasses Frieza but Vegeta/Ryoko are not even the ones to defeat Frieza/Kagato.

I'd like to see a fight between Frieza and Kagato (similar villains) or even Frieza and Aeyeka (pure evil vs pure good). Still a colossal mismatch between Lighthawk Tenchi (as strong as Buuhan) and Kagato

Ryoko also reminds me of Vegeta for her recklessness but she loses A LOT (even Vegeta defeated Cui;Zarbon and Dodoria [Frieza's top henchmen], killed the Elite Ginyu Force and raped Android 19 when Goku was going to die).

As for the OVA 3, Light Hawk Wings credibility went out of the window for me when Z stripped them away from Tenchi and in the manga for Dragonball Z Elder Kai says I

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Also, unrelated to this, when in the manga did they say or explain the relationship between top and bottom two?!

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Post by Dream (7,499 posts) See mini bio Level 21
Moderator

Firstly, didn't Washu regain the memories without all 3 gems?

Yeah, she used the two gems on the hilt of Tenchi-ken during the battle with Z to regain her memories and most of her power.

But Yosho defeated Ryoko who had 3 gems and took 2 of them and then used that power to seal her away. In the fight against Kagato he beat Ryoko again. I'm sure as a Jurain he could have used the power of the gems (he DID take them from Ryoko the first time).

As I explained above, Ryoko's body still hadn't developed to a point yet where she could make full use of the power of Washu's gems hence Yosho could still defeat her. Yosho could transfer Ryoko's gems to Tenchi-ken's hilt because any power used by the sword is being drawn from Tsunami (who is also a Choushin), so it would be possible to harm Ryoko with it and at least disrupt her source of power. The power of Washu's gems though can only be used by either Washu herself or anyone with her blood. Since Ryoko was created from Washu's egg cells, it is possible for her to draw upon the power of the gems and she would eventually be capable of drawing upon their full power when her body matures.

I'd like to see a fight between Frieza and Kagato (similar villains) or even Frieza and Aeyeka (pure evil vs pure good).

Kagato and Ayeka would be screwed against Frieza. There's way too much of a difference in stats between them.

As for the OVA 3, Light Hawk Wings credibility went out of the window for me when Z stripped them away from Tenchi and in the manga for Dragonball Z Elder Kai says I

Kid Buu's a universal threat only for his ability to bust planets and being one of the strongest beings in the DBZ-verse up to that point. He isn't a universe buster nor is he as hax as anyone with LHW. Z's ability to shut down Tenchi's use of his own Light Hawk Wings came from him having to use 3 of his 5 LHW to cancel Tenchi's use of them.

Also, unrelated to this, when in the manga did they say or explain the relationship between top and bottom two?!

That was only covered in the second-to-last episode of the Tenchi Muyo OVA series. The manga titles for Tenchi are a separate continuity which only portray events that took place from the first 13 episodes of the Tenchi Muyo OVAs.

Post by ronki23 (85 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Dream: hmm. So how strong would you place Kagato? Because if he destroyed planets before, and he still was about to destroy a small planet with Souja, it doesn't show how powerful he was/became.

We know Vegeta could destroy a planet, and we know Frieza could destroy a planet and that's the most either demonstrated but we know Frieza is stronger than Vegeta by far. Why? Firstly, we saw Vegeta was desperate to find the Dragonballs to become immortal to beat Frieza (which a Saiyan would never do as there's no challenge in a battle that way if there's no risk of death). Secondly, he was hiding whenever Frieza was near and thirdly, even after Vegeta went false Super Saiyan after near death he couldn't land a hit on Frieza. So how strong IS Kagato really? I'd like to think he's stronger than the Ginyu Force because it would be pretty insulting if those goofballs (as powerful as they are) are stronger than the aristocrat that is Kagato.

As for Buu, this was Buutenks (manga) who was stated to be able to destroy the Universe and Buuhan (anime).

Still, even if Kagato is ~Frieza in power then the writers of Tenchi Muyo shouldn't have made such a collosal power jump between Kagato and Tenchi.

Post by Dream (7,499 posts) See mini bio Level 21
Moderator

@ronki23: It was Soja that could destroy planets, not Kagato. Tenchi Muyo's status as being one of the strongest anime/ manga titles there is come from the presence of the Choushin, the Ds, Tenchi, Z and the Light Hawk Wings. Kagato could pose problems over planetary threats (as in those whose powers are great enough to threaten a planet, yet not destroy it), but he'd be screwed against any foe capable of casually destroying planets, meaning any character in the later part of Saiyan saga for DBZ would be more than enough to easily dispose of him unless he absorbs the power of Washu's gems via the gems on his ship.

Post by ronki23 (85 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Dream said:

@ronki23: It was Soja that could destroy planets, not Kagato. Tenchi Muyo's status as being one of the strongest anime/ manga titles there is come from the presence of the Choushin, the Ds, Tenchi, Z and the Light Hawk Wings. Kagato could pose problems over planetary threats (as in those whose powers are great enough to threaten a planet, yet not destroy it), but he'd be screwed against any foe capable of casually destroying planets, meaning any character in the later part of Saiyan saga for DBZ would be more than enough to easily dispose of him unless he absorbs the power of Washu's gems via the gems on his ship.

How strong was he before/after (the boost to be precise). They could have made some more medium level villains

Post by ronki23 (85 posts) See mini bio Level 8

As i've watched all of Muyo!, I am in the process of watching the movies which so far are pretty good. Still, I think Muyo! series 1 has weak villains imo. Washu's stronger than all of the villains- in movie 1 I liked the idea of Tenchi's Mom and the fact it was her that pretty much beat Kain but Washu also helped (kinda like it being Goku beating Hirudegarn when it should have been Trunks or Gotenls fusion) , in movie 2 it was a good idea though. Watching movie 3

I think after OVA season 1 of Muyo it went awful- they spent entire episodes on stupid things like looking after a baby or Zero Ryoko or Operation Lovey Dovey. I liked season 1 only. What was really dumb about 1 was how everyone became related (I found it strange Tenchi's sister was 80 because that means both parents weren't Earthlings)

Haven't got round to Universe/in Tokyo but from what I remember, the Kagato season in Universe was as good as/better than season 1.

As for Kain, how strong is he? I think he's probably as strong as Cell as was stronger than Kagato but weaker than Tenchi, all he did was destroy planets/wasn't stated to do more than that

Post by LHWKnight (2,731 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@ronki23: No they are still human, it is just that they like the rest of the family had bonded to royal trees, although Tennyo and her father's are not mentioned.

All of the family would live normal human live spans without the trees.

Post by Dream (7,499 posts) See mini bio Level 21
Moderator

@LHWKnight: Actually, Juraians possess an unknown level of superhuman attributes, best shown during Ayeka's fight with Kagato and one of the mandatory requirements of being an officer for the Galaxy Police being a body enhancement procedure that gives them physical attributes comparable to a Juraian since the GXP is in a close working relationship with Jurai's Royal Family.

Post by nishi99 (1,669 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Planet level with his ship. But without it it's hard to say for sure how powerful he was.

Post by takashichea (11,970 posts) See mini bio Level 25
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Moved from General Discussion to Kagato's wiki forum.

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