How fast are DBZ characters?

Topic started by Mortein on April 24, 2010. Last post by Dream 1 month, 2 weeks ago.
Post by Mortein (1,558 posts) See mini bio Level 9
  
What most people don't understand is that speed of DBZ characters isn't the same as the speed of marvel or DC characters.
When Marvel/DC characters are flying, the longer they fly the faster they'll go, until they reach their top speed, for which it usually takes them at least few seconds, 
When DBZ characters are flying, they reach their top speed almost instantly, and then they are losing it the longer they fly.  
Take a look at those scans, Goku started flying extremely fast, but he couldn't hold that same speed for to long

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
With Superman for example is opposite, the longer he fly the faster he goes, until he reaches his top speed.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I think it is obvious, that early DBZ characters can react and fight at light speed, however they can't cross long distances.
 
my theory:
The speed of DBZ char.=energy/distance
so if a character has energy 100, and the distance is 50, his speed will be 2. But if distance is 2 his speed will be 50.  
Ofc we cannot use this formula to precisely calculate their speed, it just show the principles on which their speed works.
There are still lots of other things we should include in this equation, like stamina, and rate at which they recover their energy. 
 

 
 
ABOUT LONG DISTANCE TRAVEL (1 000 000km) :

Goku after his training with King Kai traveled for 27-28 hours (Edit: It was less then 2 days, probably 27 or 28h)  from one end of Snake way to the other. Snake way was 1 000 000 km long which means, Goku at PL 5000 can fly around mach 30.
This is the only certain data that we have.
After that he powered up from 5000 to over 8000, and used KKx3, therefore he should be faster then mach 68 (30+30x3=120)
after his training under 100G he was obviously much faster in his base form then he was while using KKx3 during saiyan saga, so he should be faster then mach 120 without KK, and with KKx20 he should be more then 2520 x faster then sound, much more.  "(68+68x20=1428)
 


 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
After that there is no valid feat from which we could measure their speed, so it is mostly up to personal opinion. 

, but there are few feats which are going in favor of my theory
 
For example Buu is in same speed category as SSJ3, and he  destroyed several hundreds of planets in few years, and most likely he was aiming only for a life containing planets.
Planets are revolving around stars, usually no more then 10 planets around one star, and stars are light years distant from each other (closest star to our sun is 4.3 light years away)
So he would have to go FTL to achieve this feat.
  


 
 
 

 
 

Further more

This feat would be in any other comic excepted as light speed, or very close to light speed. He circled earth 5 times in only one panel, and in 99.9% times 1 panel represents 1 moment, 1 second, or possibly few second.

(Light circles earths equator 7.48 times in one second, Gotenks did 5 circles, but much bigger then equator). Gotenks was only full powered SSJ here.

 Some of you like to say that he was flying for 29 minutes, because he separated when he came to Buu. But even this was explained on the next page where he said how he took a nap while he was waiting for Piccolo.

Second argument is that it took him almost 1 minute to get to Buu, but Piccolo said that 1 minute just approximately, since he didn’t have a watch. Besides it is not like he must fly at his full speed all the time. 

 


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 So let me hear your opinion, and what are you basing it on, this would be mine  
 
I think Goku could travel the snake way with average speed of:
Goku PL 5000 30x faster then sound
Goku SSJ 799 000 x  faster then sound
Gohan  SSJ2 around 20 x Faster then light
Goku SSJ3 around 2 000x faster then light
you could find some of mine older posts with different numbers, but that is because back then I thought Goku SSJ1 had PL 15 000 000, and I thought it took goku 2 days to finish the snake road. (Goku SSJ PL 150 000 000, snake road 27-28h)
 
 


Reaction time, combat and short distance travel speed?

 
Long distance travel speed of DBZ characters from the beginning  of DBZ is only super sonic, however..
..what about their reaction time, combat and short distance travel speed? DBZ characters fighting speed has always been better then their travel speed, but  is it possible that they were faster then lightning even at the beginning of DBZ ?
 

  ---------

EDITING...
 
Here I'll list the feats which shows how they were able to strike dodge and react faster then sound during the DB.
 
Sub sonic
Goku Krillin yamcha at the beginning of DB had fair amount of super speed but still they were probably slower then sound


 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
IMO Mach 1 – Mach 50
 

Namu, Krillin Goku on 21 budokai


After the training with master Roshi Goku gains massive power up. 

 



 
 
 


 

 

 





 


 
 
 
 
 
 



 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
First scan Goku trows Giran far in the sky, it would have to move your hands extremely fast to do that.
Second scan Krillin kicked that guy and send him flying threw wall. Force= mass x speed and krillin had around 30 kg. I am pretty sure that kick must have been faster then sound to produce so much force.
3th and 4th scans Goku moving so fast that he creates after images
5th Scan Goku reacting and deflecting bullets.
6th 7th and 8th scan are most important.   Namu, who is much slower then Roshi and Goku who is slower then Roshi have both jumped miles in the air in matter of seconds.  He would have to move much faster then sound to reach this hight. When you jump, you go much faster at first and then you slow down, it looks like to me his average speed at this jump was at least few hundred meters per second, but his top speed at the beginning of jump must have been much higher.  Also the speed at which he moved his legs when he jumped must have been massively faster then sound.

9th scan. Bora trows Goku and Yajirobe above clouds for which you would have to move your hand faster then sound.

10th scan Goku creating many after images.
 11th scan Goku dodging bullets head on.
 
 
 
 
 
IMO approximately Mach 50 – Mach 100

Roshi, Tao, Goku(after training with Karin)






 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 




 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 





 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 




 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Scan 1 Goku faster then a dragon ball.
Scan 2 he punched through metal robot. you must be moving much faster then sound to do that.

Scans 3 and 4 Tao Pai Pai rips a stone pillar then toss in the air, and after that he jumps on stone pillar, proving he is faster then a pillar.
Stone pillar was thrown so  fast it was flying for 30 minutes.
This proves Tao can move his arm and body massively faster then sound.  

Scan 5 He repeated the feat.
Scan 6 and 7 he throws Bora in the air hundreds of meters with mere gesture of hand. 
Scan 8 show how Goku after training with Karin became faster then Tao.
Scans 9-13 Krillin and Roshi had a whole fight scene in 1 second.
keep in mind few thing: 1. Krillin who is much slower was still able to fallow his movements, indicating that Roshi still wasn't serious. Once he got serious he KOed Krillin easily.  and 2. Krillins fall took at least 0.5 seconds, which means fight excluding fall was shorter then 0.5 seconds. 
Scan 14 Roshi creating many after images.
Scan 15 After being shot at, Roshi was able to turn around and catch 9 bullets.
Scan 16 Roshi moved his hand so fast it created a wind so strong it blowed away a 70-80kg heavy superhuman and smashed him into a wall.
To do this you have to be able to move your hand much faster then sound.
 
 
IMO approximately Mach 100 – Mach 2 000

Tien Goku (22th budokai) Tamborine 






 
 
 
 
 

 





 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Scans 1 and 2 Goku jumped and in no time he was this high.
Scans 3 and 4 Goku punched Krilling and everyone except Tien thought he just scared him.
Scans 5 and 6 are most important. Goku was able to move so fast he became invisible even for master Roshi whose speed feats you can see above. Goku was so fast that not even master Roshi, who can easily see bullets was able to see him. Speed of bullet is around 1200-1500 m/s ("Ballistics. The World Book Encyclopedia. New York: World Book, 1998.") , and bullet is approximately 1000+ times smaller then Goku, which makes it 1000+ times harder to see. 
Scan 7 he did it again.
Scan 8 he creates many after images
Scan 9 cool punching feat from Tien


IMO approximately  Mach 2 000 – Mach 5 000

King Piccolo, Goku (after drinking sacred water) Krillin (23th budokai) Tien (23th budokai).
 

Tien who was as fast as Goku (before water) was unable to touch fat demon, and Goku ( after water ) easily speed blitzed him.





 


 
 
 
 After he drank that mystic water he become faster or as fast as young king Piccolo Doimao, who is incomparably faster then old one.  
This shows how much faster Goku became after drinking sacred water


 

 

IMO approximately Mach 5 000- 50 000

Mr Popo Kami Goku Piccolo

 

 But even after drinking water and beating king Piccolo, Goku was still so slow that he couldn't even see mr. Popo. Mr Popo stated how he can move faster then lightning, and he was training goku so he could do the same. So is it possible that mr. Popo was actually faster then lightning? lets take a look at some other feats    
 

 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 


Master roshi and Piccolo showed us how fast their energy beams are.
Piccolo destroyed moon in matter of seconds, and roshi did the same, it only took him few seconds more.
This proves how at this point their beams were faster then lightning, possible even light speed fast.
    

 

 

 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 


   
 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  

 
Raditz dodged a beam which was called light of dead, and he started to move after the beam was only few meters away from him.
 
 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  


We have seen Piccolo destroying a moon in matter of seconds, now we see here Raditz dodging an attack from piccolo which is called  LIGHT of dead. I would say it is high possibility that that attack was at light speed, and raditz dodged it, after it was only few meters away from him.
If that attack really is light speed that would mean Raditz can move near the light speed. 
The beam was 2-3m away from him before he started to move, and he moved 20-30 cm, which puts him at minimum 0.1xlight speed.

 
Goku running away from a beam 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
From this scan you can clearly see how Raditz is almost as fast as Gokus beam.
Take a look at right panel of a first scan, Goku has fired his beam and the beam is around 5-6 m away from the ground. on the next panel you can see the beam is around 0.5 m from the ground and Raditz has moved 4-5 m from the place where he used to be. this proves they are nearly as fast  as their beams. on the second scan you can see Raditz is running from a beam, but he can't maintain the speed for to long so he stops and tanks the beam.
 

     

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 

 
 
Here fat frog stopped the time and you can clearly see how they are nearly as fast as their beams.  
    

 

 
 
 
 
  
 

 

 

  So, we have 2 statements that they are faster then lightning, we have 2 feats which proves their beams are faster then lightning, and we have tons of feats which proves how they are nearly as fast as their beams are, so why are there so many people thinking they are not?
Speed of lightning can be up to 0.5x the speed of light, but average is 0.3.

  
 So this is why I think they were light speed at the beginning of DBZ and since then their speed continued increasing exponentially.
 
Also if they weren't able to strike react and dodge at light speed at the beginning of DBZ then how do you explain this: 
Nappa was attacked by Piccolo who is moon buster, and who has much more power then it's needed to destroy a moon size objects, Nappa was also attacked by Tien who fired his entire ki at him, and tien has much more ki then it's needed to destroy moon size objects, and Nappa endured it all.
Yet KK Goku  KOed him with a single strike.
 






 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 





 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Vegeta, who is incomparably more powerful then Moon busters and who stated that he can destroy the Earth was unable to hurt Recoome, who fell down once Goku punched him.  

 



 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 





 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 

 
If Goku was only little faster then sound and unable to lift 40 T, how can he one shot characters with moon+ durability? The answer is again obvious, Goku punched them with speed faster then light.
 
This is one cool feat of Goku and Vegeta having whole fight scene in one heart beat. Kaioken lasts for heartbeat.

 












 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 ------------------------------------
From the scans above you can see how raditz level characters were approximately as fast as light, and Nappa>>>Raditz.
In  saiyan saga Goku was faster then Nappa even without KK, but even when he used KKx2 he was no match for Vegeta.
 






 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
After using KKx3 He  surpassed Vegeta (look st the feat above). 
 
On namek Vegeta was much faster then he was on earth, 
 



 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
yet he was much slower then Burter,
 



 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
Burter was much slower then Goku (after training under 100x gravity) even without KK. 

 



 
 
 
 
 
 

 
  
 
 
 
Goku in Frieza saga was faster then Goku in namek saga, but he was still slower then Frieza at 70% even after using KKx20.
 
 After he turned SSJ he was even faster then Frieza at 100% power. 
 
 
If someone is wondering this is why I believe that Superman level characters wouldn't be able to tag anyone faster then SSJ Goku.      
 
After that

SSJ Goku ( on namek)<Mecha Frieza<<< SSJ Trunks<<<SSJ Goku(pre android saga)<<<<<SSJ Goku (android saga)<SSJVegeta android saga<<Android 18<Android 17<<<<Cell (after absorbing people)</=Android 16<<<<Cell (after absorbing 17)<<<<Vegeta (after training in time chamber)<<<<Perfect Cell<<<<Super Perfect Cell<<SSJ2 Gohan<<<<<SSJ2 Goku</=SSJ2 Majin Vegeta<<<Fat Majin Buu<<SSJ3 Goku<<<<Gotenks Buu<<<<<<Gohan Buu<<<<<<<<<<<<SSJ Vegetto 

 
 

Post by cfatalis (19,150 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@Mortein: if he was 100x faster than light, nobody could see him, he doesn't even need IT anymore
 
gotenks was SSJ fusion...... which mean probably on SSJ2..... (example vegito SSJ had better fighting skill/power level compared to Goku SSj3.....) 
power level doesn't always translate to speed in linear format..... e.g if a person have 2 power level he could run 2mph if a person had 10 that mean he could run 10mph, no this is never proven, power level only works on how large you can make your mushroom cloud.....
Post by Mortein (1,558 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@cfatalis said:
Most of the time they track each other by sensing a ki, don't they? they don't need their ayes.
And I didn't say that power level translates to speed in linear format. However, I do think so,  but I didn't mention it in my post, since it was never proven with 100% certainty. 
IT is at least millions of times faster then light (but more likely it is instant).
And you forgot to give your opinion about how fast they are.
Post by cfatalis (19,150 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@Mortein said:
" @cfatalis said:

" @Mortein: if he was 100x faster than light, nobody could see him, he doesn't even need IT anymore  gotenks was SSJ fusion...... which mean probably on SSJ2..... (example vegito SSJ had better fighting skill/power level compared to Goku SSj3.....)  power level doesn't always translate to speed in linear format..... e.g if a person have 2 power level he could run 2mph if a person had 10 that mean he could run 10mph, no this is never proven, power level only works on how large you can make your mushroom cloud..... "

Most of the time they track each other by sensing a ki, doesn't they? they don't need their ayes.And I didn't say that power level translates to speed in linear format. However, I do think so,  but I didn't mention it in my post, since it was never proven with 100% certainty.  IT is at least millions of times faster then light (but more likely it is instant). And you forgot to give your opinion about how fast they are. "
then what is the calculation you do
 
17+17 x3.........= 68
 IT has been said that it convert your body to light particle then you travel to point b from point a, where as point B must have a signature for you to be directed 
100x of light might as well be instant......, nap time also varies, as in  there's no proof that gotenks took a nap for 29 minutes
 
 
this is my prediction
goku beginning fo DBZ mach 1 or below it a little
SSJ goku mach 2 or 3 (if anything there's no speed feat.... on goku SSJ)
SSJ 2 goku mach 5 and above (like 9 or approaching relativistic speed)
SSj 3 goku supposedly light speed(and like at max 2x above)
Post by rein (5,465 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@cfatalis:  i have to agree with mortein on The IT being instant. He Traveled to planets i would have to assume are out of our solar system, instantly. 
Post by Mortein (1,558 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@cfatalis said:
" @Mortein said:

then what is the calculation you do  17+17 x3.........= 68  IT has been said that it convert your body to light particle then you travel to point b from point a, where as point B must have a signature for you to be directed  100x of light might as well be instant......, nap time also varies, as in  there's no proof that gotenks took a nap for 29 minutes   this is my prediction goku beginning fo DBZ mach 1 or below it a little SSJ goku mach 2 or 3 (if anything there's no speed feat.... on goku SSJ) SSJ 2 goku mach 5 and above (like 9 or approaching relativistic speed) SSj 3 goku supposedly light speed(and like at max 2x above) "
That is KaioKen attack, which doubles strength speed, power ect. 
When he was on namek he was able to use KKx20
When Goku was using IT to get from new Namek to Earth he come to Earth in matter of seconds. Our closest star after sun is 4.6 Light years away, if he tried  to fly to new namek (with speed 100x then light) it would probably take a month to get there.
Post by Dream (7,425 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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@rein:  The assessment of IT being light speed is likely inaccurate. In the Cell Saga, Goku warped to King Kai's planet before he was able to find and warp to New Namek which proves there are limitations to how far one can transmit themselves with the technique.
Post by Mortein (1,558 posts) See mini bio Level 9
" Only one who told how IT was speed of light was Goku, when he just learned it. You think goku knows how fast is light? he barely knows what is microphone.
besides it is possible that IT was as slow at the beginning, but Goku learned how to use it to go faster.
anyways, it was shown multiple times how IT is faster than light, and feats>>>statements."
Besides IT has nothing to do with this thread
@cfatalis -so you think SSJ2 is not faster then mach 9, while SSJ3 could be able to fly 2 times faster then light?
That would make SSJ3 190 000 times faster then SSJ2. Makes no sense to me. (195  814x faster to be precise )
Post by cfatalis (19,150 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@Mortein said:
" @cfatalis said:
" @Mortein said:

then what is the calculation you do  17+17 x3.........= 68  IT has been said that it convert your body to light particle then you travel to point b from point a, where as point B must have a signature for you to be directed  100x of light might as well be instant......, nap time also varies, as in  there's no proof that gotenks took a nap for 29 minutes   this is my prediction goku beginning fo DBZ mach 1 or below it a little SSJ goku mach 2 or 3 (if anything there's no speed feat.... on goku SSJ) SSJ 2 goku mach 5 and above (like 9 or approaching relativistic speed) SSj 3 goku supposedly light speed(and like at max 2x above) "
That is KaioKen attack, which doubles strength speed, power ect.  When he was on namek he was able to use KKx20 When Goku was using IT to get from new Namek to Earth he come to Earth in matter of seconds. Our closest star after sun is 4.6 Light years away, if he tried  to fly to new namek (with speed 100x then light) it would probably take a month to get there. "
17+17 part?
 
and if he is 100x the speed of light try to think the damage it would goes to the land surround him
 
to give you an idea, a concorde plane is only allowed to fly in it's max speed(mach5) at certain altitude and never near cities, because it's abilities to actually shatter glasses and cause deafness by causing sonic boom
 
light speed is more than 1000x that speed, i wonder what it does to the enviroment......
 then again DBZ wasn't the most consistent or the most realistic or the most scientific or the most factual at all
Post by Mortein (1,558 posts) See mini bio Level 9
He is proven to be Mach 17 at PL 5000, saiyan saga, and there was no destructive sonic bombs not even when SSJ3 was flaying, which means akira obviously decided to ignore that part of physics lol, there can be no other explanations.  
Light is 176 000x faster then mach 5
Post by ssjsuperman (1,661 posts) See mini bio Level 10
I would say   Massively hypersonic   
 
i wonder if dbz fansboys ever ger tired of using that calculator  
Post by Gearo (2 posts) See mini bio Level 10
I remember hearing somewhere that they travel close to the speed of light during Instant Transmission.

Post by Mortein (1,558 posts) See mini bio Level 9
Why isn't there anyone responding to my comment? Are  you all agreeing with me?
Post by rein (5,465 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@Mortein said:
" Why isn't there anyone responding to my comment? Are  you all agreeing with me? "
The scan with Mr. Popo seemed to by hyperbole, but considering they dodged point blank beams post DB that were = the speed of light, it is possible.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20
 For lightspeed combat
 
 Now first off I would like to say that there is a huge difference between combat speed and flight speed. Not to say that Goku's flight speed is not impressive, as seen here where he crosses a good part of namek very quickly  
 


 




 
And I do believe Goku can fly at FTL speeds, based off some distance over time feats and scaling  using the mach 17 (though its more likely over mach 30, im using the lowest possible speed for fairness) on snake way, and 5000 plv correlation (even though it was likely mach 30) you can prove he becomes ftl with some math.  lightspeed= mach 880, 000  therefore goku was (880,000/17) 51764x slower than light at this point  that means theoretically he needs to be pvl (51764x 5000) 258 823 529, now his pvl when he FIRST turned ssj was 150 000 000 (official, in daizenshu) so its clear he vastly surpasses the lightspeed threshold for  travelling speed (and I am using a linear correlation, it is likely closer to exponential based on the time he ran it with a plv << 1000, then ran it again with a plv of around 6,000), and yet Goku's combat speed is much much faster still.  
 
In fact here we see Goku escaping from a  paralyzing light the instant it exploded. Clearly FTL.  Also nice to note Piccolo compare Goku's existence to that of a god.
 
 
 The Daizenshuu confirms that the move is a "light ball" 
 


 
 Now to look at the fighting speed which is displayed by Z senshi.
 Roshi Exhibits great speed while fighting Kurrirn at the 21st Budokai, where his ki level was around 139





^Roshi and Kurrirn play Rock, Paper Scissors, throw multiple attacks, parries, and moves all in 1/5 of a second. 



^An entire mini martial arts battle is fought in 1 second flat, at this very early point in DB.  
 
Now note Goku's powerlevel increased 1 Million fold from the time of the 21st, to the time he fought Freeza. 


Based on the fact that Goku ran serpent road in about 170 days with a power level of well under 1000, and ran it in about 2 days (it likely took less than 2 days, around 28 hours-again im using the lowest possible speed here for fairness) with a powerlevel of around 6,000, we can surmise that there is a correlation between powerlevel and speed.  
 
Assuming a linear relationship  (though its much more likely an exponential relationship based on the data) we can see that Goku at the time of the Freeza fight would be able to perform the Roshi feat (doing multiple complex martial arts moves, and playing rock paper scissors) in a minimum (0.2 /1 000 000) 0. 000 000 2 of a second, or 10 E -7 of a second. 
 
lets look at more speed trends: 
 
Now note that Roshi can see and catch machine gun fire. 

But he cannot see Goku's movements. Now Goku is much larger than bullets, so for Roshi to not be able to see him means Goku must be much much faster than Machine Gun fire, very early on in DB. 
 

And Goku from the beginning can dodge bullets, and lasers and move so fast he makes many afterimages, and even makes 8 tangible arms via speed.  
 
 Via speed uses 8 TANGIBLE ARMS



Goku creates multiple Zanzo-afterimages, with his speed. 
 
                                                                             

 Goku dodges lasers (technically lasers move at lightspeed, but in fiction liberties are taken with this) 



Uses Nyiobo to deflect bullets

Goku easily dodges bullets.
Now Goku's speed keeps greatly increasing with every villain he faces. Until finally he go's to train with Popo.
 
Goku learns to surpass lightning speed training, now lightning can range from massively hypersonic to 1/2 the speed of light. 



 below we see Kami, who was much much more powerful than Popo, can't even follow Goku's movements, even with his godly eyes. 
 


Now we know Picollo is able to destroy the moon at (or at least very near) the speed of light. Light takes 1.3 second from the Earth to the moon, Piccolo destroyed it in a second or two, but of course this counts the time for the light from the explosion to refract back to us from the moon, essentially meaning the time we see is the time for the beam to get to the moon and for the reflecting light to come back to earth. 



Now we see radditz dodge Picolo's signature light of death, a move as fast or likely even faster than the no name one he used to destroy the moon, since Piccolo was sure no one could doge this special move it must be his fastest.

Picoclo did not say he can't believe someone would be able to tank it or deflect it, he said he couldn't believe someone could be fast enough to dodge it, showing the emphasis is on speed. 







 And Saiyan Saga Vegeta and Nappa are much faster than Radditz  
 
                                                                                           
                  

                                                                                                                  
 
Goku saiyan saga is faster still, the trend continues. 
 
Now there is proof that like the characters, the beams they use increase in speed, as seen here with Freeza.  
As Piccolo who destroyed the moon at light speed and fired a faster attack at Raditz, cannot see Freeza's beams.



However Vegeta is powerful enough, and can thus see the beams.

And of course Goku easily dodges such beams, and as you'll here in the video, though Vegeta can see attacks that are much faster than lightspeed ones, he cannot see Goku's movements, even with his saiyan eyes.  
 
  
  
 
   And there are other examples of Ki beams moving very fast especially in the anime, take Vegeta's final flash. It go's far out into space much quicker than light could. 
 
  Enjoy the Japanese version
 
 
 Other examples of ki moving massively fast are beams by Cell, Gohan, Broly destroying a galaxy trillions of times FTL, ect. 
 
 
And at ssj2 and ssj3 Goku becomes much much faster. So much so that Namek Saga Goku and even Cell Saga Goku would be a statue compared to his later self's speed. When a DBZ character gets higher in power, there speed increases to a point where other slightly weaker Z characters can not keep up or even follow there movements, even though they themselves are much faster than weaker incarnations of themselves who could see and react to lightspeed attacks. The cycle continues like that-in GT as well, where the characters would be much faster than even the Buu saga Z senshi, as seen when goku (even in child form) flies across the earth in seconds while at the same time deflecting countless ki beams from c17 (which would be faster than all ki beams from weaker characters in Z)
Post by Dream (7,425 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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If DBZ characters can travel faster than light as you say at that point (counting Goku), wouldn't that make the entire point of having Shunkan Idou pointless as Goku was making a big deal over it allowing him to travel at light speed when he first showed it off after King Cold and Mecha Frieza's defeats?
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Dream:
Lightspeed shunkan ido is dub line filler. I don't know how many times I have had to continually point this out. Shunkan Ido is INSTANT. It can travel throughout dimensions (earth to afterlife, Enma's to Kaioshin's) instantly. So to some up, Instant Transmission is Instant, it is a fail dub script change that makes it lightspeed-in which case Radditz moves faster than IT. 
 
 Goku is lightning fast as a child to pass popo's test, lightning can be 1/2 speed of light, goku routinely dodges beams that have been clocked ftl or lightspeed (moon busts, vegeta's final flash) so its clear fighting speed>>>>>travelling speed, similarly in a fight bruce lee would be faster than usane bolt.  But as I said, even using the mach 17 on snake way, and 5000 plv correlation you can prove he becomes ftl with some math.  lightspeed= mach 880, 000  therefore goku was (880,000/17) 51764x slower than light at this point  that means theoretically he needs to be pvl (51764x 5000) 258 823 529, now his pvl when he FIRST turned ssj was 150 000 000 (official, in daizenshu) so its clear he surpasses the lightspeed threshold for travelling speed.(again combat speed is faster) This also assumes a linear relationship between pvl and speed, more likely (based on the fact it took goku a month to run snake way with pvl >1200, then two days with pvl 5000) it is a exponential relationship, meaning he would be much faster much quicker. And again his combat speed is even much faster. now to clear something up, IT (shunkan ido) is instant, not lightspeed. It is a dub line and filler that says lightspeed, in the manga and based on feats IT=instant movement. 
 
Also this should be moved to DB forums, not general discusion. 
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20
 
@Dream:   @Mortein:

@rein:


 
What do people think of this? 
 




Tenshinhan fires his Taiyoken (solar flare), which is light used to blind people. Now this attack is light, so it should very well move at the speed of light. Ten fires it off, Goku crosses the ring and puts on Roshi's glasses before the light can reach his eyes and blind him. 
 
Also in the same fight, in the anime, Ten displays a technique called "Rekka Kousoku-ken"-literally Light Speed Fury Punch. Now this attack is depicted as much faster than any others at the time and Goku cannot dodge it (though Chaozo was interfering). Ten says he easily delivers twenty hits to all of Goku's vital spots with every breath. Is it possibly they can reach light speed for quick bursts in the DB anime?  
 







Post by MisterShin (2,125 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@Mortein:  
27 hours + 1,000,000km = 10,288 m/s or Mach 31

Goku only took 27 hours to travel snakeway the Second time. 48 hours/2days is how long King Kai estimated it would take Goku, and that he would arrive a day late.
Goku arrived the next day, three hours late (vegeta gave a 3 hour time for goku to arrive).


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Mach 31 x KK3 = Mach 93
Mach 31 x KK20 = Mach 620
 
Factor in 100G training i would say,  Base Namek Goku would at least be 2 speed increase over Saiyan Saga Base Speed, it could be a greater speed increase.
So Mach 31 x 2 = Mach 62 = Base Namek Goku
Mach 62 x KK20 = 1,240

I think they are lightspeed travel in Buu Saga.
Goku & Vegeta can easily move at massively hypersonic speed even in high gravity, later in the series.
Vegeta trained in 300G before he turned SSJ.
Post by Dream (7,425 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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