GREATEST PIS MOMENT EVER

Topic started by waybig1010101 on Aug. 19, 2014. Last post by DBZ_universe 1 week, 6 days ago.
Post by taichokage (13,272 posts) See mini bio Level 20

@takashichea: I don't think Sting conceding when he should have won was the real PIS moment of the Arc, it was just disappointing for me. It was more so the fights that had PIS, Erza's most notably. Bending the laws of magic to her whim without even a penalty effect. Lesser versions of this are happening in every other Naruto chapter lately though. Kishi ignores the former logic that he himself established from the beginning.

Post by takashichea (12,288 posts) See mini bio Level 25
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@taichokage:

Yeah, I agree. It was just mixed opinions, disappointment with Sting and the chapter while others like how Hiro Mashima did something unexpected of Shonen tournaments you normally see. I still got read the Kakashi chapter where he got two eyes.

Post by katmic (395 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@othus12 said:

watch out guys, we got a PIS over here

If what i am guessing about this moment is correct, then this seems less PIS and more something you didn't like. The people that read the manga that i have spoken to made it clear that their was no rule breaking with this kakashi moment. the issue people have with this is either kakashi being able to use perfect susano immediately or having the chakra to sustain it; and without reading the chapters, i don't see any rule breaking on kishimoto's part. based on what i know without having read up to this point, this moment is easily explainable. no rule breaking.. maybe you can explain to me the contradictions you see. because i don't see them

Post by othus12 (6,819 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@katmic: sure let me tell you what's wrong.

1.-obito transplating kakashi his sharingan with magic that wasnt explained ever before in the series.

2.-perfect susanoo can only be obtained with eternal mangekyo, that's a regular mangekyo.

3.-kakashi developing high level techniques on the fly (kekkei genkai dojutus) when he was known for not being able to perform S class techniques, even adding element to the rasengan wasnt possible for him.

Post by CosmicKnight75 (208 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@othus12: This so much, Kishi's just writing stuff as he's going nowadays without thinking about the story. To this day I'm still trying to figure out what the point was of Kaguya replacing such a well-established villain like Madara besides pointlessly dragging on the story more (and killing him off in the most lackluster way possible).

Post by othus12 (6,819 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@CosmicKnight75 said:

@othus12: This so much, Kishi's just writing stuff as he's going nowadays without thinking about the story. To this day I'm still trying to figure out what the point was of Kaguya replacing such a well-established villain like Madara (and killing him off in the most lackluster way possible).

indeed madara was a great villain i dont see the point either

Post by CosmicKnight75 (208 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@othus12: Im surprised this wasn't mentioned yet. Naruto is chock full of PIS nowadays, but this one takes it in spades

Post by othus12 (6,819 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@CosmicKnight75 said:

@othus12: Im surprised this wasn't mentioned yet. Naruto is chock full of PIS nowadays, but this one takes it in spades

ohhh the obito treatment. looks like madara cant perform substitute jutsu even with he power of the six paths.

Post by taichokage (13,272 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Well a crippled Obito was able to impale him and steal his chakra, despite fodderizing Minato who attempted to blitz him with Haraishin and avoiding all 7th Gate Guy's strikes. Yeah it all makes sense. Apparently the sage can't even sense when someone is behind him, something even Karin can easily do. There is room for error that most Mangaka make, but this is every other chapter now.
Post by katmic (395 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@othus12 said:

@katmic: sure let me tell you what's wrong.

1.-obito transplating kakashi his sharingan with magic that wasnt explained ever before in the series.

2.-perfect susanoo can only be obtained with eternal mangekyo, that's a regular mangekyo.

3.-kakashi developing high level techniques on the fly (kekkei genkai dojutus) when he was known for not being able to perform S class techniques, even adding element to the rasengan wasnt possible for him.

there is nothing inconsistent about any of that. Since i am not caught up on the manga, i am going to make some assumptions based on what i have heard people say. I am assuming that kakashi's new sharingans came from obito. there was also talk about something happening between kakashi and obito and their chakra and bodies.

Kakashi has always been the copy ninja. that is his trademark. He is not an uchiha but he has mastered the sharingan better than most uchiha's, doing the stuff only uchiha can do. Just look at part 1. they say a sharingan user can copy a jutsu after seeing it just once. kakashi copied zabuza's water dragon jutsu AS HE WAS DOING IT; in other words he didn't need to see it completed. He copied zabuza's seals as zabuza was doing them, doing it so seamlessly that zabuza thought kakashi could see the future. that is how advanced he was in using his one sharingan so many episodes ago.

IN the war arc it was made clear over and over again that kakashi has better control of kamui than even tobi himself; his only restriction has always been chakra. the moment he realized that he shared a sharingan with obito, and obito sucked him into the other dimension, kakashi understood how he did it and knew immediately how to suck himself out. the moment he got a chakra boost from naruto and the fox-his biggest weakness being chakra- he started to throwing stuff out of his eyes as large as the eight tails.

Think back earlier in shippuden, when kakashi showed naruto his own sharingan, and i remember him, in the anime, saying something like, "Does it look like this?" which i took to mean he had never done it before and wanted Naruto to judge the move; then he went on to teach naruto how to perfect his own move, because he was that analytical. Kishimoto has spent 600 ENTIRE CHAPTERS showing us what kakashi can do, basically mastering abilities on the fly. How is this any different? He has had tsukiyomi used on him once or twice before. He has also seen amaterasu used numerous times before.

And unless i am mistaken, susano combines these two techniques to come into being. I have yet to see it mentioned that you need eternal mangyeko sharingan to use it. There was a point where Madara's eyes were still normal sharingans and he was still using susanoo; he hadn't evolved them to their mangyeko form yet. Wikipedia simply describes susano as a power that can be accessed by those who awaken mangyeko sharingan. Itachi called it a rarity but not impossible. No one ever said that you needed to be an uchiha to use susano, merely have access to the sharingan.

After seeing him analyze and copy moves through out the series, how is it an inconsistency for him to do the same here? Why would it not be more inconsistent that he couldn't do susano or amaterasu when he finally had both eyes? Kakashi has done so much with one eye. Why would two eyes not give him access to so much more power, the way sasuke finally acquiring itachi's eyes allowed him to do moves like amaterasu which he had never done before he faced Bee.

NO one bats an eye when itachi and madara seem overpowered. Why is it treated different when kakashi, also a sharingan user, accesses the full power of the sharingan? Kakashi may not be as smart as itachi, but everything we have seen shows that he is just as talented. if he was born an uchiha he would be as powerful as itachi. No, he would be more powerful, when you take into account itachi's weak body.

naruto has its flaws; however every time someone speaks of it being illogical or inconsistent, 95% of the time, what they are actually saying is they do not like what happened. Some people loved what happened here (i am not one of them since i haven't reached this point), others hated it. But Just because something happens in naruto that someone doesn't like doesn't make it inconsistent. Kishimoto has spent A LOT OF TIME in both naruto series making EVERYTHING that kakashi has done, at least as far as his jutsus are concerned, very consistent.

Maybe i will have a different opinion when i finally watch these events. but someone needs to explain to me how kakashi doing what he has always done in the past makes kishimoto inconsistent. There are less than five inconsistencies or plot holes that i can point out in this series that kishimoto hasn't explained; they may not always be the best explanations, but 95% of the time, kishimoto endeavors to explain the supposed plot holes.

Post by taichokage (13,272 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Actually an awesome post Katmic. There is just one other problem. Kakashi is amazing as the copy Ninja, however, the limit to the Sharingan is that it can't copy Kekkei Genkai, which the Susanoo is. Secondly, even assuming that he didn't copy Sasuke and just made his own Perfect Susanoo, it's an Eternal Mangekyou technique not a Mangekyou. That's the equivalent of a normal sharingan user copying Tsukiyomi or Amaterasu. It was just too much of a stretch. Even being as talented as he is, copying a technique that even the elite natural Uchiha needed to train in, it being a Kekkei Genkai AND an eternal Mangekyou technique while only JUST obtains the normal Mangekyou in both eyes which itself was questionable is a huge stretch.
Post by CosmicKnight75 (208 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@othus12 said:

@CosmicKnight75 said:

@othus12: Im surprised this wasn't mentioned yet. Naruto is chock full of PIS nowadays, but this one takes it in spades

ohhh the obito treatment. looks like madara cant perform substitute jutsu even with he power of the six paths.

Even with Rinnegan and EMS, Madara couldnt react to the attack or see it coming despite Kakashi doing the same thing to Sasuke's shurikens back in the beginning of the show before we even knew he had Sharingan. Beginning series Kakashi >>>>>>>> Sage of Six Paths Madara or Lightspeed Zetsu with more stength in one hand then Bijuus and 8 Gates Guy confirmed. Madara is also conveniently too dumb to use Izanagi after being hit with what should have been a superficial wound anyway.

Post by katmic (395 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@taichokage said:

Actually an awesome post Katmic. There is just one other problem. Kakashi is amazing as the copy Ninja, however, the limit to the Sharingan is that it can't copy Kekkei Genkai, which the Susanoo is. Secondly, even assuming that he didn't copy Sasuke and just made his own Perfect Susanoo, it's an Eternal Mangekyou technique not a Mangekyou. That's the equivalent of a normal sharingan user copying Tsukiyomi or Amaterasu. It was just too much of a stretch. Even being as talented as he is, copying a technique that even the elite natural Uchiha needed to train in, it being a Kekkei Genkai AND an eternal Mangekyou technique while only JUST obtains the normal Mangekyou in both eyes which itself was questionable is a huge stretch.

You make a good point i hadn't considered. But then again being a sharingan wielder, he didn't have to copy them, merely analyze them and understand how they work. IN other words he didn't copy them, he learned how to do them. The question becomes how he could have done this in battle and instantly. Well, probably the same way sasuke was able to use amaterasu for the very first time against Bee, and then summoned an incomplete susanoo, again for the very first time, against the raikage, without any prior training. I would also compare it to how he was able to warp himself out of obito's dimension after he was pulled in the first time. He understood the basic concepts of kamui and figured out the rest. he could have done the same with amaterasu and the like.

But i will concede this battle; thinking about, perfect susanoo and the rest of it is starting to sound like a bit of a stretch in my head.

Post by Destinyheroknight (10,273 posts) See mini bio Level 21

@katmic:

I still think it is PIS, because Perfect Susanoo take a lot of chakra which Kakashi doesn't have (he use up his and the nine tails). Kakashi's chakra was low and Obito use a lot of chakra to get there (he said earlier it would take a lot of chakra to go into kaguya's dimension), Kakashi should have gone blind in a second do to a lack of chakra

Also, the people who are calling everything PIS are the people who don't like the series anymore. So they won't be paying that much attention to it. So they will call PIS, because those moment pop out more (they are bias)

Sadly, I don't have that problem, because I work on the VIZ's Shonen Jump and I need to go over that a couple of times :(

Post by CosmicKnight75 (208 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Destinyheroknight: FWI, I'm not a hater of the series in case you were mentioning me and my posts were more joking then hating. In fact I've had issues with Naruto since the beginning of Shippuden yet I still watch it every now and then. Pointing out clear examples of bad writing if anything, is something I do as a fan.

Toaru Majutsu No Index is one of my favorite series yet I'll admit to obvious PIS moments, usually involving Accelerator and other Level 5 Espers losing to people they shouldnt have. Even though Touma's got the Imagine Breaker to negate his abilities and the author did his best to explain how Kihara Amata (a normal human) got around his abilites, you cant help but wonder why Accelerator didnt simply bother to do this:

And dont even get me started with Mugino's multiple losses to Hamazura, when it was stated she literally coulda killed him any time on a whim. Heck it got to the point where Hamazura admitted to capitalizing on her usual PIS and CIS.

Post by katmic (395 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@CosmicKnight75 said:

@Destinyheroknight: FWI, I'm not a hater of the series in case you were mentioning me and my posts were more joking then hating. In fact I've had issues with Naruto since the beginning of Shippuden yet I still watch it every now and then. Pointing out clear examples of bad writing if anything, is something I do as a fan.

Toaru Majutsu No Index is one of my favorite series yet I'll admit to obvious PIS moments, usually involving Accelerator and other Level 5 Espers losing to people they shouldnt have. Even though Touma's got the Imagine Breaker to negate his abilities and the author did his best to explain how Kihara Amata (a normal human) got around his abilites, you cant help but wonder why Accelerator didnt simply bother to do this:

And dont even get me started with Mugino's multiple losses to Hamazura, when it was stated she literally coulda killed him any time on a whim. Heck it got to the point where Hamazura admitted to capitalizing on her usual PIS and CIS.

I have always hated such things in anime and manga; the whole, i can kill you any time but never do nonsense, from both heroes and villains. That is most definitely PIS.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,724 posts) See mini bio Level 17

Black Star not using Madness Release against the Kishin.

Kenpachi getting hurt by that electric quincy girl.

Ishida somehow is a top quincy yet got owned by fullbringer.

FairyTail...too many. Kagura being defeated was PIS.

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