Community Thoughts on Default Battle Conditions

Topic started by Dream on March 6, 2014. Last post by Dream 3 months, 3 weeks ago.
Post by Dream (7,247 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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Before Sonata started stricter enforcement of Battle forum rules a while back, one nagging issue that frequently came up in matches was that there were never a default set of match conditions set up in the event whomever made a match never specified any conditions they had for it. Under the current rules, you have to make some effort at laying out match details in the opening post of a thread or else your thread gets locked in 24 hours. Some folks that post threads just post their match without details either because they aren't familiar with the rules, they don't have the time for it or they're not good with laying out proper details for a match as not everyone that comes in this part of Anime Vice are accustomed to discussion in battle forums.

With this said, I'm considering the idea of laying out a default set of battle conditions for matches in this forum in the event different conditions aren't specified in the opening post of a Battle thread. I want to get feedback from regulars of the Battle forum if this is a good idea or not. If enough folks agree with it, I will tweak the present rules of the forum to include default conditions for a match at my discretion and it can loosen up some of the rules that Sonata had set.

Anyone in agreement of laying out default match conditions?

Post by SMXLR8 (6,936 posts) See mini bio Level 16

I am not

Post by takashichea (11,077 posts) See mini bio Level 25
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I'm willing to support this because it will make our battle threads look less spammy and more attractive. Like how the Anime Vice Wiki Style Guide dictates on how wiki editors make a wiki page consistent for the community, we should make battle threads with a set conditions to an extent.

You guys and gals are making battle threads day in and day out. Some of you take the time and effort to make great battle threads while others just post it without any effort. You should care for them like how wiki editors care for their wiki pages. It will make the community better.

I agree with Dream on his proposals.

Post by Dream (7,247 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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@SMXLR8: Reason as to why?

Post by waybig1010101 (2,578 posts) See mini bio Level 13
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@Dream: Im going to go against the idea because I believe that if someone really wants to make a battle that interests them,  then as the OP that person should be able to spare a few minutes to add their own battle conditions, especially if that person already put the effort to already make the battle. Now say that person forgets or doesn't know better, than its very simple for them to edit their post and if they are unable to edit because their battle gets lock by a mod, who should also inform the OP how they can get their battle unlock, so then it would be very easy for that person to ask that their battle gets unlock in return that they promise to edit their post in accordance with the rules. If they are unwilling to do so then it just shows just how much they genuine care about their own battle. 
Post by Vapovile (1,789 posts) See mini bio Level 16
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I'd say we should make a specified set of default conditions, since some people on mobile phones might have a hard time making threads that have all the information that we desire. It will also make the barrier of entry into the battles section a bit less steep, since I have seen some new people try and post battles, only to be called out for not having enough info.

I'd say we should have a default set of conditions in the Battles Rules topic, where we can reference if there is a topic lacking in detail. It can also be there if a newbie comes along, and all they would have to do is copy and paste that format for the rules. So yeah, I am 100% for it.

Post by takashichea (11,077 posts) See mini bio Level 25
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@waybig1010101:

Like Vapo and Dream had stated, we're going to make a set conditions. It won't be too detailed that it would hurt our battle activity.

We'll see what Dream has for an example for this proposal.

Post by waybig1010101 (2,578 posts) See mini bio Level 13
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@takashichea: fair enough and I am even willing to help out @Dream: if he needs the help, but im still against the idea. 
Post by Dream (7,247 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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I'm still considering some tweaks. But here's the gist of what I have in mind for default settings:

  • Anime/ manga/ light novel characters involved are at stats as of current point or end of series. If all three have ongoing adaptations, whatever is further along in plot gets priority for judging capabilities. If the character is from a series franchise with different continuities, their strongest incarnation will be used in the match (Tenchi Muyo and Dragon Ball being notable examples).
  • Characters from other mediums will have their mainstream or most popular incarnations judged in the match. For instance, any match with Superman and other DC Comics characters will involve the post-Crisis versions of their characters.
  • Battles will be set in the Room of Spirit and Time from DBZ with characters ten yards apart from one another.
  • All involved will be in character and battle is fought until the opponent(s) is incapacitated or killed.
  • Characters involved will start off in base form (if they have transformed states) and will come into battle with standard weapons/ equipment (if applicable).

The tweaks in question I'm still trying to work out have to do with factoring in elements to specific character abilities since we occasionally have characters utilizing some form of high-level hax and abilities that don't have an equivalent function in another title.

Post by waybig1010101 (2,578 posts) See mini bio Level 13
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@Dream said:


  • Anime/ manga/ light novel characters involved are at stats as of current point or end of series. If all three have ongoing adaptations, whatever is further along in plot gets priority for judging capabilities. If the character is from a series franchise with different continuities, their strongest incarnation will be used in the match (Tenchi Muyo and Dragon Ball being notable examples)
I think we should go with versions of the characters that will make the fight as close as possible   

  • Characters from other mediums will have their mainstream or most popular incarnations judged in the match. For instance, any match with Superman and other DC Comics characters will involve the post-Crisis versions of their character
 Again I would say go with the versions of the characters that will make the fight as close as possible   
  • Battles will be set in the Room of Spirit and Time from DBZ with characters ten yards apart from one another.
I do not think that the room of spirit and time (Hyperbolic Time Chamber) would be the best location considering that the gravity is stronger (10X), that the air gets denser, and the temperature fluctuates, which only gets worse the deeper a person goes in the chamber. So its not really a good neutral zone if you know what I mean. Also the distance is too short IMO 
  • All involved will be in character and battle is fought until the opponent(s) is incapacitated or killed.
Agreed  
  • Characters involved will start off in base form (if they have transformed states) and will come into battle with standard weapons/ equipment (if applicable).
Yet again I think we should use the versions that will make the fight as close as possible, while keeping in mind transformations.  
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,732 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Have like standard conditions such as: 
 
-Standard equipment  
-Mindset: Normal 
-Starting distance: 25 M 
-Location: Cell Games 
-No prep
-ect. 
 
These should be assumed to apply to every battle unless otherwise specified.
Post by Dream (7,247 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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@waybig1010101:

I think we should go with versions of the characters that will make the fight as close as possible

The problem with that is people will have different assumptions of what they assume would be close in attributes for opposing characters/ factions/ teams and it would lead to the match derailing into a debate over how what level the characters should be set at for the match. Setting them at current, EoS, and/or strongest showings eliminates this issue.

I do not think that the room of spirit and time (Hyperbolic Time Chamber) would be the best location considering that the gravity is stronger (10X), that the air gets denser, and the temperature fluctuates, which only gets worse the deeper a person goes in the chamber. So its not really a good neutral zone if you know what I mean. Also the distance is too short IMO

Fair point. Forgot how it affected Future Trunks when he experienced it in the Cell saga. I'll have to think of another default battle area. As for distance, how about 100 yards?

Post by Bigheart711 (3,706 posts) See mini bio Level 21

I also would like to see a default battle conditions layout. Would be much easier on the part of who's battling and which version the battlers are at, preferably versions that make it a close and fair fight. We should add them to the main battle rules page in a section for formatting opening posts.

Post by Dream (7,247 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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@hitsusatsu11: Forgot to factor in prep and knowledge of the foe as well.

Post by Dream (7,247 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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Revised, with additions and tweaks...

  • Anime/ manga/ light novel characters involved are at stats as of current point or end of series. If all three have ongoing adaptations, whatever is further along in plot gets priority for judging capabilities. If the character is from a series franchise with different continuities, their strongest incarnation will be used in the match (Tenchi Muyo and Dragon Ball being notable examples).
  • Characters from other mediums will have their mainstream or most popular incarnations judged in the match. For instance, any match with Superman and other DC Comics characters will involve the post-Crisis versions of their characters.
  • Battles will be set in a large and indestructible grasslands area with characters 100 yards apart from one another.
  • All involved will be in character and battle is fought until the opponent(s) is incapacitated or killed.
  • Unless characters are from the same title, they have no knowledge of one another. If they are from the same title, they have knowledge of their opponent's abilities yet no time to prepare.
  • Characters involved will start off in base form (if they have transformed states) and will come into battle with standard weapons/ equipment (if applicable).

Thoughts?

Post by waybig1010101 (2,578 posts) See mini bio Level 13
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@Dream said:

@waybig1010101:

I think we should go with versions of the characters that will make the fight as close as possible

The problem with that is people will have different assumptions of what they assume would be close in attributes for opposing characters/ factions/ teams and it would lead to the match derailing into a debate over how what level the characters should be set at for the match. Setting them at current, EoS, and/or strongest showings eliminates this issue.

sorry i wasn't really too clear and thats my fault for not explaining myself well. I saying that for either strongest, current, or EOS  I think we might as well use the versions between those three options in order to make the fight as close as possible not every single version. i do understand what you mean, but we still would have to debate over which version to use between the three you gave.  So that one character could be current and another strongest in order to make the fight  closer, you know what i mean?  
@Dream said: 

I do not think that the room of spirit and time (Hyperbolic Time Chamber) would be the best location considering that the gravity is stronger (10X), that the air gets denser, and the temperature fluctuates, which only gets worse the deeper a person goes in the chamber. So its not really a good neutral zone if you know what I mean. Also the distance is too short IMO

Fair point. Forgot how it affected Future Trunks when he experienced it in the Cell saga. I'll have to think of another default battle area. As for distance, how about 100 yards?

@hitsusatsu11 said:   -Standard equipment  
-Mindset: Normal 
-Starting distance: 25 M 
-Location: Cell Games 
-No prep
-ect.   
 
I think this is good, except i would change the distance and the location depending on whose fighting, so i would try to come up with different locations and distances that can match the size of different characters. 
Post by Dream (7,247 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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sorry i wasn't really too clear and thats my fault for not explaining myself well. I saying that for either strongest, current, or EOS I think we might as well use the versions between those three options in order to make the fight as close as possible not every single version. i do understand what you mean, but we still would have to debate over which version to use between the three you gave. So that one character could be current and another strongest in order to make the fight closer, you know what i mean?

With the new 100-200 post limit Sonata has for matches, it would make debate on what versions of characters, distance and location to consider for a default rules match a waste of posts for the thread's life span.

As for what I posted, I guess I need to clarify what I mean with my rules.

Anime/ manga/ light novels

  • If a series is ongoing, current level or latest incarnation of the character as they appeared in the series is factored.
  • If the title's over, then end of series stats or last version of the character as seen in combat are used.
  • If a source is further along in plot than another one, than said further source gets priority with judging the character's feats.
  • If a title's franchise has more than one continuity, the strongest version of the character as seen in the franchise gets factored.

Other Mediums

Whatever is the most popular or mainstream version of the character commonly used for battle threads get factored in. In the case of comics (which are notorious for having many alternate universes), Earth-616 versions of Marvel Comic characters and Post-Crisis versions of DC Comics characters would be used, unless a different version gets specified in the thread topic.

Post by waybig1010101 (2,578 posts) See mini bio Level 13
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@Dream said:

sorry i wasn't really too clear and thats my fault for not explaining myself well. I saying that for either strongest, current, or EOS I think we might as well use the versions between those three options in order to make the fight as close as possible not every single version. i do understand what you mean, but we still would have to debate over which version to use between the three you gave. So that one character could be current and another strongest in order to make the fight closer, you know what i mean?

With the new 100-200 post limit Sonata has for matches, it would make debate on what versions of characters, distance and location to consider for a default rules match a waste of posts for the thread's life span.

As for what I posted, I guess I need to clarify what I mean with my rules.

Anime/ manga/ light novels

  • If a series is ongoing, current level or latest incarnation of the character as they appeared in the series is factored.
  • If the title's over, then end of series stats or last version of the character as seen in combat are used.
  • If a source is further along in plot than another one, than said further source gets priority with judging the character's feats.
  • If a title's franchise has more than one continuity, the strongest version of the character as seen in the franchise gets factored.

Other Mediums

Whatever is the most popular or mainstream version of the character commonly used for battle threads get factored in. In the case of comics (which are notorious for having many alternate universes), Earth-616 versions of Marvel Comic characters and Post-Crisis versions of DC Comics characters would be used, unless a different version gets specified in the thread topic.

Alright sounds good so far 
Post by Dream (7,247 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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@waybig1010101: My intent with this is to make things simple as possible with conditions for default rules. The settings I have in the revised rules should be fine for most matches involving anyone at or below planetary-level in scope. However, these conditions wouldn't be so ideal for anyone above that tier, which I'm still trying to fine-tune.

Post by waybig1010101 (2,578 posts) See mini bio Level 13
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@Dream: so have you decided what to do about hax then for planet level and below? 
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