@mypasswordis1234: @DBZ_universe said:
@SpeedForceSpider: When do you think that they reach relavistic speeds? Me personally, i think DBZ people are FTL after Goku SSJ vs Frieza.
When Yamcha fought against the Saibamen they where moving so damn fast that Kid Gohan could not seem them, only when Piccolo told him to look for there energy was he able to see them. Kid Gohan who have normal eyes like you and me could not follow them. In DB, Roshi/Goku/Tien/Krillin where fighting so fast that the crowd could not seem them and i remember seeing a scan on Spacebattles/Comicvine of the Announcer trying to make sense of what just happend and either Krillin or somebody else explained what Goku and Roshi did in theire fight all in just a couple of seconds... thats incredible speed right there, moving so fast that the human eye can't see.
Moving on to the Namek Saga; it has been proven that if you increase your PL you also increase your speed an your reaction to it. Frieza shot of his Death Beam and neither of the group could see the attack, Vegeta then recovers from an injury and sudenly he was able to rescue Gohan from a Death Beam attack. Goku was fast enough to deflect multiple Death Beams from close range like it was nothing, Frieza increased his PL and Goku wasn't able to dodge them let alone deflect them. Goku turn SSJ and is able to dodge the Death beams again. Burter was so damn fast that when Vegeta trew a DB he was able to fly past them, catch it, return back before Krillin and Gohan even turn there heads. jaice and Burter shot energy attack at Goku and Goku was moving SO FAST that it seemed that he was standing still, all this and more was displayed before the climatic battle between Goku SSJ and Frieza who SHIT! on all their PL's like Burter and Jeice.
Imagine going further to the Androids or Cell or better yet lets go to Goku SSJ3/Gotenks SSJ3/Mystic Gohan or...you know what lets go to Mystic Buu/Vegito/Gogeta.
If Vegeta was able to destroy the planet of earth with a level of 18,000 then your stats need work.
180,000,000 power level would be required for the sun if base Saiyan Saga Vegeta's was the minimum since 18,000 times 10,000 is 180,000,000, and if 10,000 earth's could really fit into a hollow sun.
So let's say that during the Cell saga Goku at base becomes stronger than Frieza. That would mean that his base is at the least at his Super Saiyan level during the Frieza saga or at least over Max Power Frieza.
So that would mean 150,000,000 times 50 is 7,500,000,000 when in his Super Saiyan form (150,000,000 for a simple guess). That would mean that Goku, if going by the Vegeta being a minor planet buster during the Saiyan Saga theory, can destroy at least 40 suns.
if we keep him at base level having a level of 150,000,000 just for the sake of simplicity then with SS2 he has a level of 15,000,000,000 and for SS3 60,000,000,000.
Now for him having a power increase to his base level I would say during the Buu saga his base would at least be at his Super Saiyan level at the time of the Cell games. Mostly because I see him as someone who would use his current levels as measuring tools like making his base as strong as his previous Super Saiyan.
So if his base at the time of the Buu saga is 7,500,000,000 then times that by 50 to get 375,000,000,000. That means he can at least destroy 2083 suns. SS2 is x100 so 750,000,000,000 which is like 4000 suns. SS3 is a x400 power boost so 3,000,000,000,000 which would be at the least like 16000 suns. Remind you that these are based on my own calculations. So it could be higher.
I've been lurking around some battle forums regarding DBZ and there are alot of people who say that Akira in a intervieuw said that Cell was a Solar System Buster? Does anyone know if this is true? people left and right are saying thats its confirmed in the Manga but there are so many messed up translations.
EDIT: Maybe this is stupid but, if you blow up a star doesn't it mean that you are a solar sytem buster because when the star goes out it takes the surrounding planets out.
Planet-busting at most, maybe multi-planet busting for high tiers and that's being generous.
Taking Cell's word in saying he's a solar system buster when it's not even shown is as gullible as thinking any character statement, despite clear feats and facts to the contrary, must be believed.
@Deviantguestart: Based on my theory that I came up with and posted before (To see how much of a power level it would take to level a solar system) Goku is far beyond star level.
Bear with me and read through it to see what I am talking about. These however are only POSSIBLE things Z characters could destroy.
This is a theory of mine based partially on Cell's statement of his own power in Super Perfect Form (Which can be considered hyperbole to a degree). So in this theory we will take what Cell said and attempt to have faith in it. I will also delve into more POSSIBLE feats.
Based on how Gohan was either equal to or stronger than Super Perfect Cell I will proceed to try and make calculations on the power level It MIGHT take to destroy the solar system.
First let's compare Goku and Gohan during the Cell games. Aside from Super Saiyan 2, I believe it is reasonable to assume that they were essentially equal at the time. Second let's determine their power levels at the time by looking at it like this. Goku during the Frieza saga was at a level of 150,000,000 for Super Saiyan, based on MOSTLY reliable sources.
During the Cell games, I am quite positive that Goku in his base would obliterate Frieza in the same way. Basically I'm saying he's stronger than Frieza at his base during the Cell games. He might be at the same level his Super Saiyan form was at the Frieza saga, or he might be stronger. But either way, for the sake of simplicity, we will use 150,000,000 for the base level at the Cell games.
Thus we know that 150,000,000 is his base then. If we give that base a Super Saiyan multiplier of 50 then we get 7,500,000,000. Now let's look at Super Saiyan 2 which is supposedly a double of the regular. So it's going to be 150,000,000x100. And we get 15,000,000,000.
Thus based on how similar Gohan was to Goku at the time we can say that Super Saiyan 2 Gohan was also 15,000,000,000. And Super Perfect Cell was pretty much the same. Or he might have been a little higher or lower. But if we accept what he said and believe that he could destroy the solar system, then we could say that the minimum for solar system busting is 15,000,000,000.
Now before anyone says anything about him not being able to do that look at it like this. Sure, Cell seems like he wouldn't be able to create a Kamehameha big enough to blow up the solar system. But that doesn't mean he doesn't posses the raw power to do so. And why would he anyways? It would waste time for him and waste power.
If you look at how Vegeta during the Saiyan saga (Who we can assume has had experience with blowing up planets. Not based on filler but just fighting experience) then we can say that 18,000 can level a planet. Light years away from Super Perfect Cell's power level In this theory. And before anyone says he only blows up the core then look at how easily Piccolo blew up the moon and even Master Roshi. If they could do that to the moon (Just turn it to dust in an instant) with power levels ranging from 126-400 then blowing up the mass of the planet would not be far fetched at all for 18,000 as a power level (18,000 is essentially 45 moons and the Earth I believe is actually slightly lower than that). And Vegeta was pretty confident that there would be nothing left. And if Vegeta couldn't breath in space then he wouldn't risk blowing away his own space ship. So I am sure it wasn't just the core.
Now if we look at Saiyan saga Vegeta and compare him to Super Perfect Cell then we can assume that blowing up a Solar system is not far fetched at all (Based on this theory). For Super Perfect Cell we could also assume that he can blow up approximately 833,333 planets all massed together. And if anything, he is a master of Ki control. It doesn't take a high power level to control Ki in different ways. It just takes a high power level to make it an effective attack. Not every attack the size of a planet will always have the power to blow it up. So it's easy to assume that Super Perfect Cell can create an attack that could spread from towards a solar system.
A problem with that though is that we could also assume he can level a galaxy, but only if we include Broly into this. For me I kinda do include him since it technically did take place in a point of time in the series during movie 8. It took place during the 10 day wait for the Cell games. And I usually tend to think that Broly at the time was SS2 equivalent in his legendary Super Saiyan form. Which would explain why not even 2 Semi-Fully mastered Super Saiyans, 2 Ascended Super Saiyans, and 1 Super Namek couldn't do so much as even scratch the ugly bastard. But this is just my theory on Broly's strength. And I am one to usually come up with and partially believe more than one theory.
As for Bills (The god of destruction from the recent DBZ movie) I would assume he is far more capable of busting even more.
Super Saiyan 3 Goku was a flea compared to Bills. And I am positive that SS3 Goku at the end of Z was (Pre-time skip) far capable of leveling a solar system if not a galaxy. And Bills put him down with a tiny minuscule flick to the forhead and a miniscule tap to the neck. And before anyone says he used pressure points, then he would have used such a technique against Goku in his god mode. But he didn't. And don't tell me he didn't because he wanted someone worthy. If Bills was SKILLED enough to put Goku down even in his god mode with those moves then he wouldn't have thought Goku was worthy. Bills took SS3 down with brute force. And made him look like the worlds weakest bitch. SS3 fails in comparison to Bills power. No special technique was used. Period.
So Bills could technically be classified as a casual solar system buster. Maybe even a galaxy buster. Maybe a universe buster (If we over analyze everything). But we don't know. All we know is that he is light years ahead of what Super Perfect Cell is capable of. In the movie it was stated that even if Goku trained for a million years, his SS3 still wouldn't match up to Bills. He had to fight in his god mode. So Bills is also pretty much a billion light years away from Cell in both power and destructive capability.
I hope you found this theory interesting. I always find it fun to analyze these things.
Now as for your star level plus... If we take Super Perfect Cells Power level in this theory and look at the amount of planets he can destroy (Based on dividing his power level by Vegeta's theorized minimum of 18,000) we get 833,333 planets and from what I have been researching, the sun could house 10,000 planets if it was hollow. Thus we can also say that Super Perfect Cell could destroy approximately 83 stars (the sun is a star after all). And if we look at final Z Goku, we know he is light years ahead and would destroy far more than a single star.
After seeing bits of Battle of Gods, I'm inclined to think that Bills, Whis and SSJG Goku could be solar system level as Bills casually shrugged off attacks coming from SSJ3 Goku and Mystic Gohan with hardly any effort. Beyond that, my original thoughts from months ago aren't much different when applied to other DBZ characters.