Watch & Learn: COWBOY BEBOP #26

Topic started by No_name_here on Nov. 13, 2010. Last post by RecSpec 3 years, 8 months ago.
Post by No_name_here (854 posts) See mini bio Level 11
Staff
  Maybe she should've shot him a few more times to really get her argument across.
 Maybe she should've shot him a few more times to really get her argument across.

Well, that was an odd ending. Kind of reminded me of a Michael Mann movie in that it didn't really resolve or tie anything up in the way that story-structure usually dictates. Instead, things just played out like they would, realistically. The most artistic flourish, really, is the outro music finally being used in the show itself. I honestly n ever really liked the song - - I usually skipped over it - - but it was a great as accompaniment to that final shoot-out. And that closing fight was so hard;  definitely as intense as the one Jet had with the African felon in that on episode.  

I suppose I don't feel as moved by (12 YEAR OLD SPOILERS ALERT!) Spike's death because  he sort-of brought it on himself by being stupid. Why stand and fight now? Why not go and run away with Julia, have some fun and then, after he's properly rested, come back and get revenge on the bad guys? It’s not like they were ever going to go away and, as I recall, Spike never really got any play throughout the show anyway - - maybe he wasn't actually as beat-up about this girl as he purported to be.  
  She did look like she was either high or hungover most of the time.
 She did look like she was either high or hungover most of the time.
For some reason, I was especially glad to see the shaman from that earlier episode come back. I don’t know if his observations about shooting stars were really that insightful, but they certainly sounded good (which I suppose can be said about 90% of new age philosophy .) While we’re on the subject, did Lin or Shin ever show up before? I don’t recall ever seeing them, so it seems odd that they're made out to be so significant. Actually, tying this talk of non-resolution back to Spike's love life... was it just me or was there some unresolved sexual tension between him and Faye ?  I mean, she almost kills both of them with that close-cabin bullet ricochet - - that's usually a sign that a gal likes you. Then again, I figured she was probably too coked out (or addled on something else) to do anything about it. 

Thus ends COWBOY BEBOP.  I'm not sure what to say in conclusion about it, so I’ll save my thoughts until after I see the movie.  I presume this is going to be a case similar to EVA where that's the real ending; the one that actually ties things up. Watch out for that reviw - - I’m going to be doing it on video - - and, in the meantime, go ahead to   the poll I've started and vote on what you want me to view next.

Tom Pinchuk’s the writer of    HYBRID BASTARDS!  &   UNIMAGINABLE . Order them on Amazon   here   &     here . Follow him on Twitter @tompinchuk  

Post by rubberluffy (568 posts) See mini bio Level 16
Actually, the movie takes place between episodes 22 and 23.
Post by CapeBarnes (492 posts) See mini bio Level 18
Bang. 
 
Anyway, have fun watching the movie.
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,638 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
Having the closing song "The Real Folk Blues" was a nice touch for that scene, but I liked it in general. Though, I actually do enjoy some jazz. A great song is Louis Armstrong's "It's a Wonderful World". I hate it when people try to cover that song.
 
Best time to attack Vicious was quickly. Even if Spike had rested, that would of been time Vicious would of used to organize the syndicate around him. He was in the middle of a coup, and the organization was disorganized in the power vacuum. Better to attack your opponent when they are off balance than when they have both feet planted firmly on the ground. Even better when they don't know you are coming at all.
It's not as if Spike could organize the opposition. All sides wanted him dead for defecting years ago.

" Actually, tying this talk of non-resolution back to Spike's love life... was it just me or was there some unresolved sexual tension between him and Faye ?  I mean, she almost kills both of them with that close-cabin bullet ricochet - - that's usually a sign that a gal likes you. "

You must of dated some interesting women if your measuring stick for attraction is rated at whether she nearly kills you with fire arms. Though, who wants to date women with no passion?
 
I have two favorite scenes between Spike and Faye. The first was after she saved his life from falling out what window and he's covered in bandages. He wakes up to her singing the same what he remembers Julia. Spike motions Faye over to him and says, "You sing off key.". Even injured, she assaults him.
 
The second is when Spike was going off and Faye thought for sure he was going to die. He confronts her and tells her to look into his eyes. Tells her how one of them is false. How he's been looking into the past and present at the same time. Faye gets more concerned than before, because he's never talked about himself so much to anyone before. 
I love dialog like that. That was just such an excellent say of relaying information about the protagonist without seeming so heavy handed in the exposition.
 
You ever notice the theme in the characters about both physical and emotional loss? Spike physically lost an eye, but also lost the love of his life. Jet lost his arm, and a woman he cared about. Faye lost her memories, and was used by the first person she cared for. Not to mention her family and most of the people she once knew are long dead.  Ed was abandoned by her father, and lost......er, her shoes. (Okay, there's a flaw in the pattern.)
Post by Om1kron (141 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@rubberluffy said:
" Actually, the movie takes place between episodes 22 and 23. "
And is just like episode 26, it ends as it would and nothing seems to be further explained. Look for some fun animation continuity issues when spike is in morocco. =)  
 
There's one scene where he's wearing his jacket, then takes it off, then goes through a door without his shirt and seconds later jacket re appears lol.  
Post by WarlordPayne (33 posts) See mini bio Level 5
Neither Lin nor Shin show up in any of the other episodes, unless they were hiding really well.
Post by frsty13 (30 posts) See mini bio Level 5
Yeah, it's a fitting ending.  In my opinion, the reason Spike couldn't postpone the confrontation with Vicious is because he needed to put an end to it.  I know I've commented throughout this Watch and Learn run about how the series really revolves around the past, and in this final episode, Spike essentially says "It's time to put it to rest.  I'm done with running from it".  The movie is ultimately skipable.  It's ok and has some great songs (Knocking on Heaven's Door is my favorite of the entire series), but it doesn't quite fit the tone of the show as a whole and shifts focus from the past to how Spike could have turned out.  It's never been nearly as satisfying as the series was.
Post by gla55jAw (109 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@FoxxFireArt said:

 
I have two favorite scenes between Spike and Faye. The first was after she saved his life from falling out what window and he's covered in bandages. He wakes up to her singing the same what he remembers Julia. Spike motions Faye over to him and says, "You sing off key.". Even injured, she assaults him.
 
The second is when Spike was going off and Faye thought for sure he was going to die. He confronts her and tells her to look into his eyes. Tells her how one of them is false. How he's been looking into the past and present at the same time. Faye gets more concerned than before, because he's never talked about himself so much to anyone before. 
I love dialog like that. That was just such an excellent say of relaying information about the protagonist without seeming so heavy handed in the exposition.
 
The "You sing off key." scene is so great because you think it's going to be an emotional moment and Spike is just back to himself. I love his little finger motion. 
 
The scene when Spike tells Faye about his eye was just amazing. I think that was one of the best scene's in the whole series. Especially since it's a moment when Spike is completely serious and Faye is really surprised.
 
As for the episode itself, yeah it sucks that Spike dies and he could have tried to avoid all of that happening, but it seems like he couldn't run from his past anymore. He was set to cut those ties completely with force or die trying. 
 
And just for kicks...

Post by SamJaz (11,553 posts) See mini bio Level 19
Online Now
The way I saw it, After Julia died Spike just didn't care anymore and went to 'finish' his life by obliterating the syndicate
 
Notice that Spike's last meal in the series was the same as the first? Green peppers?
 
There's actually a popular theory on the web that had Ed's father not beaten Spike down earlier, ruining his confidence, then Spike would have limped out of the Syndicate relatively unharmed, made it back to the Bebop, and made out with Faye.
Curse you Ed's dad. You killed Spike.
 
And now, Spikes first and last line in the series.
 
"I think it's time we blow this scene, get everyone and the stuff together. Okay, three two one let's jam."
"Bang."
Post by Dunchad (72 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@FoxxFireArt said:
"Having the closing song "The Real Folk Blues" was a nice touch for that scene, but I liked it in general. "
 
The outro is actually "Blue". Though Real Folk Blues is really good song as well. I generally don't like Jazz or Blues, but I just loved Cowboy Bebop music. One of my favourites is the song in the scene where Spike is falling through air after the explosion in the church..."Rain" I think.
Post by ninjadude853 (464 posts) See mini bio Level 12
I really love that ending, i really really do.
 
To each his own right?
Post by SEXYTRON (15 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Cowboy Bebop is a classic! Haven't watched it in forever but now I might need to go back...
Post by P3771 (8 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Sounds kinda good...    
Post by Fabe (56 posts) See mini bio Level 6
  
Post by zaldar (1,235 posts) See mini bio Level 15
ok now to talk about why I hated this ending.  To quote from your review "
Kind of reminded me of a Michael Mann movie in that it didn't really resolve or tie anything up in the way that story-structure usually dictates."  DING DING DING  WE HAVE A WINNER!
 
I watch these things for story and I need my stories to have endings this one didn't really at all, I mean we can't even say with 100% certainty that he is dead (especially in anime world where even AFTER you have seen the body you don't really believe it) so there really was no ending at all.  Faye is never resolved, neither is ED.  I mean I like slice of life shows but even there you have SOME resolution here we get nadda.  The cheapest and easiest ending to a work of fiction is simply to kill everyone, the next cheapest and easiest is to kill the main character and NOT show everyone else dealing with it.  The third is simply to have everyone split up, stop hanging out and go their separate ways.  We get the second one here and Shamploo (another very overrated show in the anime cannon done by the same guy) gives us the third.  I'm waiting now for him to do a show ending with a random meteor hitting and killing everyone...
 
FMA much better show as is eva even without the movies (which I actually never watched).
Post by Halberdierv2 (1,288 posts) See mini bio Level 17
Bang.
Post by Korne (11 posts) See mini bio Level 3
I actually think you will like the Cowboy bebop Movie, since it doesn't try to explain anything about the show... instead, it is a told in one, hour and a half episode little bits of everything from the show (a bit of shooting, a bit of detective work, a bit of dogfighting, a bit of a romance (kinda?), and hey... more Edward! 
 
Oh, I'm suprised you didn't once talk about the universe that this show takes place in, since that was the most fascinating thing to me. The idea of the moons and planets that we know being colonized , the technological advances that don't always seem so advanced, the idea of the warp gate system (something that to this day, I love the explanation).  
 
And last but not least, if you liked Cowboy Bebop, I would recommend Black Lagoon and Samurai Champloo. Both shows have similar structure, and both have  the strange but believable characters and  universes. 
 
PS: It might also be worth noting that the last run of the popular TV block Toonami ended with one of my favorite cast offs, also related to Cowboy Bebop:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCAX4cgszCU&feature=related
Post by vergilius (147 posts) See mini bio Level 13
The thing to understand about this ending--and this series--is that most of the plot has already happened before episode one.  The characters are drifting about, not moving towards the resolution of their stories, but not running away, really, either.  Occasionally throughout the show, we will get a peek into the characters' pasts, leading up to the last few episodes, when we've caught up on where the characters are in their lives.
 
And then, with the proper context established, we see the end of the story.
 
Spike's story, in particular, is resolved perfectly.  He had a falling out with Vicious over Julia, went into exile, found Julia again, lost her at the hands of Vicious, and then he and Vicious destroy each other.  That's a complete story.
 
@zaldar: I have no idea where you're getting the idea that Faye's character is never resolved.  She found her home and came to terms with her feelings for Spike.  What more did you want?
 
Speaking of Faye and Spike, what could be more real than a budding romance stifled when life gets in the way?
 
My single complaint about this series is that in the effort to make Julia mysterious, she essentially becomes a MacGuffin rather than a character.  Her interaction with Faye was awesome...I could have done with more of that, to make the Faye/Spike/Julia conflict a bit more clear.
 
As for where this leaves the characters...I always figured Jet and Faye would grow closer as they mourned Spike's death, not necessarily becoming romantically involved, but at least helping each other with the sense of overriding loneliness/isolation that dominated much of the series.
Post by sotyfan16 (1,341 posts) See mini bio Level 20

Talk about an anti-climactic ending. Suiting for the series though I guess but the fight was one of the shortest of the show. Spike was pretty good at what he did for having one eye then so I give him that. I have the movie on my Netflix but not really sure if I'll watch it. Anyway, I'm glad this series is done so we can move on to something better.

Post by ReVolutionOfEvangelion (102 posts) See mini bio Level 3
I'll tell you right now because its not much of  a spoiler:
 
the Cowboy Bebop movie is not a finale.  It is a one-off adventure, stated to take place slightly before the ending, before Ed left, and is basically a "lost episode" utterly disconnected from the rest of the series, that does not address any running plotlines.
 
The most that happens is that....I guess you could say Spike talks about Julia to someone else for the first time, but its nothing we the audience didn't already know by episode 6.  Its not a flashback or anything (it literally came down to, he was in a jail cell, and admitted that there used to be someone he cared about....that's it, no new info).
 
So as a "lost episode" how does it function?
 
....poorly.  Many were upset with it.  
 
The beginning, and end, were good.  It utterly sags in the middle though.  Completely slow.
 
You know those moments in the series when it gets slow and melancholy?  It went above and beyond that, to just "plot grinds to a halt"
 
That, and they hype up the bad guy as the most evil thing ever, but really...
 
....mild spoilers....
 
while he is "evil", he has no real agenda.  He's officially just a crazy guy randomly setting of a biological weapon because he is crazy. 
 
Other than that, I think Cowboy Bebop was a lot of people's intro to the real "anime ending"...a real ending which doesn't pander to the audience, but in which people die and it doesn't all work out.  Julia is dead, Vicious and Spike are mortally wounded, 
 
....and just Spike's final exchange with him:  "Julia's dead (its all over), lets FINISH this!"....just 'to heck with it', there's no sense in running anymore.
 
Bang. 
 
Though I wonder what you will review now.

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