Yusuke VS Aizen

Topic started by CosmicCupcake on Feb. 27, 2013. Last post by Frieza 1 year, 9 months ago.
Post by Frieza (240 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@ReliusClover said:

@Frieza: Given that i don't give two shits about Bleach or Kubo i probably wouldn't do anything. But that would be assumed to be joke or tolling anyway. If it was actually said in a serious way and backed up by some reasoning sure. But even with Word of God being there it's still better to rely on feats.

Well, not really the response I was looking for, or more so, the direction I was taking the question, but I see how you feel about it. To you, Word of God is irrelevant if countered by previous feats. Not a bad way to assess a situation, however, Word of God should trump all cards in hand. Feats are irrelevant to Word of God. Seriously, if Kubo actually meant that Kon or Ichigo or Rukia, whoever, can fart and destroy all of Soul Society, then it is so. No matter what amount of debating you do, it will not counter the fact that in his manga, Kubo has made it so that if Ichigo farted, he could destroy Soul Society. It's a principle.

It's how I address powerscaling. People try so hard to debate a system that was implemented in the manga by Toriyama. I have seen how people tirelessly try to counter every point of powerscaling. And I just laugh. You are trying to counter the Word of God. I just find it funny. Sorry, but I do.

MvC is a forum which is populated by idiots with said flawed logic and fallacies who bring shit up like lighting speed, continent busting Seppiroth, universal level Gabriel Belmont and nigh-omnipotent Sonic.

Is that Lounge Movie Codec? Is that what MvC is?

Post by Frieza (240 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@ReliusClover said:

And people were merely trying to get the exact height of TTGL instead of relying on a "around that height" info, which is not wrong in any way.

And it was more so trying to debate that TTGL wasn't galaxies tall. I just laughed. It was ridiculous how they tried to counter the Word of God.

And no matter what, or rather how people go about trying to find the height of TTGL, that's irrelevant. At the end of the day, it is official that he is galaxies tall. Plain and simple. Trying to debate otherwise is foolish.

Post by ALMIGHTY (702 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Ok this is dragging out too far...

Can we all just agree that Yusuke can defeat Aizen either by KO, Incapacitation, Or Complete Annihilation ?

I mean this thread has gone WAYYY of the rails...

Post by ReliusClover (784 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Frieza: WoG is there to clear uncertain situations and to help out characters with no feats. Ultimately if characters have feats WoG won't probably even exist for them.

And funny because the only reason power levels were ever introduced in the DB series is to show how useless and unreliable they are. And as said, Cell saying that is not WoG. If there were some nice feats or Akira himself confirming it 100% with no doubt that would be a different story.

And yes that's the Lounge.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@taichokage said:

That's just what I was trying to say. I don't know how destructive he is and im not claining anything like country+ level, but obviously he should be far baying the small mountain or excuse me "large hill" feat.

I know, but just because a person feels he could be country level, one doesn't become a wanker. using the calcs from the example I showed, the difference between the power of the slash and the shockwave coming from the swing should be over 1000 times. 1000 small mountains could be classified as island+ or small country level.

Post by taichokage (15,381 posts) See mini bio Level 20
I used the same analogy in a similar thread. To pulverize even a "very large hill" with air pressure is a vastly higher feat then say cutting or punching it apart. You can take a wooden beam for instance and easily break it in two with a large blade or mallet or even your hand if you're strong, but try pulverizing even a twig using nothing but air pressure. The level of the feats don't even compare. You would probably need hundreds if not thousands of times more power to do it. Once again I'm not claiming that Ichigo or Aizen are country busters but far more then what some people give them credit for. Even Aizen's fragor is around nuke level and he can use at least up to six at once..
Post by Frieza (240 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@ReliusClover said:

And funny because the only reason power levels were ever introduced in the DB series is to show how useless and unreliable they are.

Lol that's what Death Battle said.

If I find the link I will post it, but the real reason Toriyama included power levels and scouters was to be able to measure a characters power through numbers. It would be much easier for the readers to understand.

Post by ReliusClover (784 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Frieza: Lol really? Makes me feel ashamed given that i'm not a big DB fan (they just screw up).

Anyway, put still stands that power levels stopped making sense a long time ago to the point that they stopped even mentioning them. It's obvious that Akira intended to make them so kind of drama for the main characters standing up to those with higher PL or simply stopped caring half-way through. All in all, they are useless when it comes to showing the characters power. And the whole analogy is flawed anyway, according to that logic a farmer with a shotgun has the power to fuck up a good portion of them moon, LOL.

Post by Frieza (240 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@ReliusClover said:

according to that logic a farmer with a shotgun has the power to fuck up a good portion of them moon, LOL.

Hey Hey Hey! This guy, with a power level of 5, pwns all... alright??

Post by phantomrant (1,499 posts) See mini bio Level 10

******* christ, what the hell happened here?

Post by Kurohige (3,755 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@Frieza said:

 


Well, not really the response I was looking for, or more so, the direction I was taking the question, but I see how you feel about it. To you, Word of God is irrelevant if countered by previous feats. Not a bad way to assess a situation, however, Word of God should trump all cards in hand. Feats are irrelevant to Word of God. Seriously, if Kubo actually meant that Kon or Ichigo or Rukia, whoever, can fart and destroy all of Soul Society, then it is so. No matter what amount of debating you do, it will not counter the fact that in his manga, Kubo has made it so that if Ichigo farted, he could destroy Soul Society. It's a principle.  

Well in debating on just about any forum you need feats or excerpts from the author (Or something not said by a character) in order for the feats to be quantifiable, if Kubo said that Ichigo could fart and destroy soul society in one chapter or interview and then not only does he never show to do it but when he farts it only destroys a building, or better yet when two people are strong as ichigo clash with their strongest attack and Soul Society is fine then regardless of what the author said there is no way to prove it and evidence suggest the contrary to the character's abilities. I'm not saying DBZ can't do all the things it claims however to blindly accept feats because someone said so is mindless and does not make a debate. If that were the case I could just pull out the scan from the chapter black saga of Yuyu hakusho where Genkai states "If you wanted you could destroy this whole planet and there would be nothing me or anyone else could do to stop you." and no matter what feats anyone gives me I just say it was stated so it must be canon. It's the same thing with Cell's solar system busting claim, there was no reason to believe he could considering the villain before him stopped at planet busting, and the gap between planet and solar system is way more than Solar system>Planet.
 


It's how I address powerscaling. People try so hard to debate a system that was implemented in the manga by Toriyama. I have seen how people tirelessly try to counter every point of powerscaling. And I just laugh. You are trying to counter the Word of God. I just find it funny. Sorry, but I do.

It's not powerscaling that is the problem, it's how it's addressed; Buu, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks all got blown up in a planet busting explosion that did not even reach the sun or any other planet around earth, Goku was killed from Cell's planet busting self destruct technique and so on. When you look at these, no amount of statements make it not true. I have no doubts Goku and many others can easily destroy planets, however people start debating the "system" when claims like galaxy busting, massively faster than light, and universal level start getting thrown around. I have no problem with powerscaling if the debate is good enough since Hitsusatsu11 was the best when it came to DBZ, but you need to be able to debate it, the sad thing is a lot of DBZ fans can't find feats to support them, so they say "Well this guy did this in dragoonball so this guy can blow up a universe in DBZ!" ect. So I understand why people debate it. Without powerscaling DBZ would be pretty weak.
Post by Frieza (240 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Kurohige said:

I'm not saying DBZ can't do all the things it claims however to blindly accept feats because someone said so is mindless and does not make a debate.

Well, clearly, but who's to say a debate was really what I was looking for in the first place? Because since the dawn of time, debates and arguments arise due to a dispute, or rather, a disagreement of a certain topic.

I have always been a firm believer that what the author puts in his manga, he does so with purpose. And DBZ is no exception. Cell is not a real character. The character cannot just spawn words out of nowhere. The author brings the character to life through illustrations and story. And in DBZ's case, the story has been a developing one. From when we hit Cell, we have had Dragon Ball, Saiyan Saga, and Frieza Saga. Time periods where the characters develop, grow stronger, and more powerful.

From Frieza, a villain that blew up a planet in his weakest form, to Cell, a stated solar system buster. Now, mind you, without clear evidence Cell's statement could be simple hyperbole, but I like to use the DBZ platform to further evaluate my point.

How can someone like Cell be simply a planet buster, when Frieza, in his weakest form, did it? And with ease, might I add. How can someone, thinking rationally, come to the logical conclusion that from Frieza, to Cell, the characters are still just planet busters? And as well, Cell being so much more powerful than Frieza. That's what I don't understand. Please, explain that to me.

And I'm not even addressing Vegeta, who even Goku feared was going to destroy the planet. Even the character's own reactions should alert you to the validity of another characters statement.

It's just, I can't understand these things. It's like fictional character debating has come to utter crap. Especially in regards to DBZ. I just don't... things just deserve a facepalm sometimes when I see people downplaying Dragon Ball Z. Clearly, DBZ doesn't have the most solidified pieces of evidence, but there is more than enough to go on, especially through powerscaling, to come to rational and logical conclusions. I don't take Cell's word as hyperbole. Based upon the evidence of the character development and growth, and the basis of DBZ that is powerscaling, Cell's statement should be taken as nothing but fact.

However, where does the arguments and disagreements arise from? People. Their own interpretation of what the manga has shown them. That, my friend, is the problem. People assuming things without looking at the grand picture.

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