YHWH (SMT) vs Vegito

Topic started by CerusSerenade on April 4, 2013. Last post by CerusSerenade 1 year, 3 months ago.
Post by CerusSerenade (2,479 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@MohsinMan99: Thank you. You just made it certain that we use statements as well as feats to judge a character's powers and that Arceus babyshakes Goku.

: Where did you find a clip of YHWH talking someone to death? I actually want to see that.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,143 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@CerusSerenade said:

It's amusing how so few people will post on this thread when they swarmed to say DBZ would win on the other one. There are so few differences between the two it's not even funny.

That's likely because:

A) Far less people have heard of YHWH

B) People are far more used to Arceus fanwankers.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@CerusSerenade: Oh i don't have the link i don't keep track of stuff like that but just youtube Shin Megami Tensei YHWH and it will have a video of the second game with him talking and as you walk everytime he says a new sentence you die and come back.

Also if a feat contradicts a statement that means someone somewhere lied~

Kinda like you being a super hero and telling me you can launch a rock to the moon after showing me you can fly. Then I can take your word for it and ignorantly believe you can with no opposition. But then suppose one day the only time i see you throw a rock toward the sky seriously and it only comes doubling back after going a few feet. You just lost my faith in your word by showing me the actual doing of the action.

Post by Kurohige (3,681 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@CerusSerenade said:

It's amusing how so few people will post on this thread when they swarmed to say DBZ would win on the other one. There are so few differences between the two it's not even funny.

You made a thread because of an argument with that pokemon one? You don't let things go, do you? 
And in reply to what you said above, not many people know about SMT, I know because my brother loves that series and played through 2 of them multiple times so i know what they can do. What I find amusing is that thread bothered you so much that you made this one to beat Goku and then ask the obvious question of why people jumped on Goku's side on the other one, when YHWH is leagues stronger than the pokemon. You gotta let things go and if you are gonna ty to debate Arceus here you might as well have done it on the last thread too. Me and maybe 2 or 3 others sided with Goku and I gave up halfway through, others were just saying how crazy the post count was lol. I see why you may have been frustrated with the other thread though, believe me I have had debates like that too.
Post by othus12 (6,360 posts) See mini bio Level 12

wow cerus really made a fool out of himself by making this. thus far all users agree that you are a bad loser

Post by MohsinMan99 (1,777 posts) See mini bio Level 21

The trick is to not let these things get to your head. I realized that fact a bit too late myself. :maybe

Post by CerusSerenade (2,479 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@othus12: No, what we found out is that Arceus actually wins according to your attitude torwards YHVH vs Goku.

Post by ReliusClover (784 posts) See mini bio Level 10

YHWH rapes pretty much an infinite number of DBZ non canon and canon verses with not even a slight problem.

Post by othus12 (6,360 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@CerusSerenade: lets see if what you are saying is true:

taichokage: "I see the point of the thread but it's not the same as Arceus."

moshinman99: "YHWH is in a totally different league compared to Arceus"

theneutralone:" Whereas Arceus is shown to be weak, YHWH had to lose to multiverse busters"

girugamesh: "People are far more used to Arceus fanwankers"

kurohige: "YHWH is leagues stronger than the pokemon"

so guess what cerus? everyone thus far agreed that its not the same and that you are wrong. so i was right, you made a fool out of yourself.

Post by CerusSerenade (2,479 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@othus12: So you're ignoring how YHVH was killed by humans?

You're ignoring how he only goes off of statements for his strength just like Arceus?

You're ignoring how outside of statements there is nothing differenciating Arceus and YHVH in terms of feats?

You sure are smart.

: Post feats of YHVH tanking planetbusters and destroying a universe when he has never been shown to do so. Only been stated to be able to do so which sound like hyperbole.

Post by othus12 (6,360 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@CerusSerenade: tell that to the rest of the users in animevice since none thus far has agreed with you. i dont know about YHWH (not enough to argue) in contrast i know arceus but thats another story (in which you lost of course) now to make a rage thread like this only because you lost on arceus vs ssjg wow...

Post by Kurohige (3,681 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@CerusSerenade said:

@othus12: So you're ignoring how YHVH was killed by humans?

You're ignoring how he only goes off of statements for his strength just like Arceus?

You're ignoring how outside of statements there is nothing differenciating Arceus and YHVH in terms of feats?

You sure are smart.

@ReliusClover: Post feats of YHVH tanking planetbusters and destroying a universe when he has never been shown to do so. Only been stated to be able to do so which sound like hyperbole.

The problem is, Yahweh did not do anything in cutscenes, only gameplay as a final boss, they could no put "Blows up multiple universes!" in his moveset because the game could not handle something like that (PS2) or it would be like FF7 with Sephitroth's supernova which would be a cinematic only that blows up multiple planets but guess what? Once it hits Earth it does tons of damage to players but nothing to the planet and also, if he uses the move again, all the planets are still there, even after the fight the moon is still there.  Yahweh is essentially the strongest final boss in SMT. I was gonna say strongest being, but Aleph killed him. To further the explanation I will list Yahweh's placements and who he is above in the SMT verse   the one game which features these Megaten final foes is SMT2. They are: Nyarlathotep is a lv 53 Jashin (Dark god/Vile?) (Pazuzu and Cthulhu are above him in that family). Nyx is a lv 47 Yama (Night) (top Night). They're mid-tiers among all the gods and demons that SMT2 feature. Some examples of those who are stronger than them include Shiva (Hakaishin 72), Metatron (Daitenshi 68), Beelzebub (Maou 65 for playable version, 80 for boss), Mara (Maou 62 for playable version, 69 for boss), and Vairocana (Majin 64 for playable version, 70 for boss version). And of course, the two guys who are a tier below Yahweh; Lucifer and Satan (lv 99's for playable version, 100 for boss). Yahweh himself is lv 108. And his three avatars are no wusses either. Sabaoth is lv 77 (and possesses the absurdly unique trait of ABSORBING ALMIGHTY, WTF). Shaddai is lv 85. Elohim is lv 93. 

All these beings are weaker than Yahweh, SMT has made it fairly clear that they are still capable of doing insane feats even when obtained (Although possibly weaker since he is only level 99 when you get him) however because it is a video game they don't have him blowing up the universe every hit however he can kill any enemy with one hit.
Now if we talk about silly boss vs human what if battles, Yahweh will always win; because of God's Voice. God's Voice is an Almighty single target insta-kill without fail. It is not a plot/script skill. It is part of his normal skillset. It is part of the fight against him. If it wasn't for the randomizer, he could use it every turn. So in that instance you can honestly say the ONLY reason you can beat him is the game, the plot, and because people paid money for the game so they should be able to beat it. 
 
 You tried using video game logic for an anime and it is clear why Yahweh lost (humans, as stated before, are the ultimate sin as well) also Nyx which is literally death itself is the only being Yahweh can't really beat gameplay wise, and MAYBE MC storywise.  Not that it really matters (the whole idea of "which final boss is more powerful" doesn't seem relevant given that the SMT games seem to take place in timelines or universes that aren't necessarily connected except through some recurring names --- i.e. the original SMT1-2-3 universe is different from the Persona universe and the DDS universe)....but "killing" Nyx is simply impossible, no matter if you're Yahweh or anyone else. Nyx as a being has no HP and cannot die (as evidenced during the final battle of P3). The only way the MC succeeded in stopping it --- even with the power of the freakin' universe,  which Igor says makes literally anything  possible (he could choose to become God himself, or destroy the universe, or what-have-you), he could only seal Nyx away so that it couldn't bring about the Fall. For that one moment, I have no doubt that MC was more powerful than Mr. Yahweh; for that one moment, he was basically the God of the universe, for all the powers he had.

I think it's because Nyx is  part of the fabric of the universe, or part of the cycle anyway. It's like trying to destroy HP loss; you can't destroy a state that represents a lack of something. That's like trying to destroy "emptiness." Even if you could theoretically kill Nyx, the consequences would be far beyond "humanity is saved!" Nobody would die, and the planet would be grossly overpopulated in just a few generations --- and that's only the basic social implications. Never mind the scope of what a universe would be like without expenditure and the loss of life and energy. Also in Yahweh's fight it can be compared to fighting Elizabeth or Margret is Persona 3 and 4, you don't really "Beat" them at all, you only hold out and fight against them until they see your resolve and give you a pass, same thing here hence why Yahweh joins you, we know he is capable of killing everyone sure-fire in one hit if not for the game's mechanics. It's a video game, it's so far apart from an anime it's not even funny, Yahweh's feats and bio are still valid as it's who he is in multiple fictions and he has shown to be able to kill everything, his only restriction is the fact that he is a video game character. The pokemon have SHOWN what they could do in the videos you provided, they lose. Yahweh is a high-end multiversal who can create and destroy multiverses by blinking and the verse count is already past the billions.
 Wait, my mistake, there is a feat:   
   1:23-2:50

And YHVH is responsible for Creation, Death, and Rebirth of many Universes in the Amala. Kagutsuchi is just an avatar for the sole purpose of deciding who wants first dibs.

Cuz you know, YHVH has a lot of avatars running around. 
Also  Kagutsuchi exists in all of them and all worlds are experiencing the Conception and he pales a candle to the like of Lucifer, let alone YHVH. Hell, Hitoshura during the True Demon ending survives the immediate destruction of the Amala and time dies as a result. Then proceeds to duke it out with the Prince of Darkness and ending in a stalemate. 
  
 His very power is the reason Lucifer's so hard pressed to beat him after all this time. The only person actually successful in killing him was Aleph from  SMT2 . And in the end he got screwed over royally. Constantly experiencing reincarnation and his soul never moving on. Even then, the will of the Universe would just bring him back. Hence why during the True Demon Ending, the whole point was to train Hitoshura enough so he'd be ready for the final battle against, guess who? Yahweh.  
So Yahweh and many other's power goes FAR beyond anything the pokemon have done and no they don't win the DBZ thread, just let it go, please, you are a better poster than to linger on the past, you made your points, they don't work. Yahweh wins this, DBZ wins the other thread still. Just let it go.
Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@CerusSerenade:

I think I see the problem here. Cerus, you are trying to make it seem as though we must only look at statements regarding arceus and other pokemon to discern their power and ignore all their other feats. That just doesn't happen.

If you heard your favorite super hero could break a chair you would believe it right? Especially if say he also had the ability to create chairs. But then what if you never actually heard this from his mouth? What if everything said was through another source and they were simply overstating things? Say you go to find out for yourself and watch your favorite super hero get injured by a chair he created? Sure you could say that it was PIS but what other proof do you have to back this up? Have you ever seen him get hit by another chair and be perfectly ok? Logically you would have to accept that your favorite hero has been shown to create a universe but die from a chair. Those are just the facts.

That scenario can be applied to Arceus. A great pokemon since he created the universe and all but his speed and durability are pretty crappy and has never been shown to do any damage above mountain level. That isn't even debatable opinion that is a fact. If you can show me otherwise please do on the other thread like I have asked on many occasions.

YHWH is on an entirely different level than you believe. I think you actually need to look him up and look at some gameplay. A human alone did not defeat YHWH and even then it could not really be called a defeat. Trying to get your point across that statements can be used just like here is a pretty moot point in that this whole story line goes off of statements and is firmly based in statements. Anything they say or the story says can be seen as undeniable gospel unless another character comes later and states what was said to be a joke. These statements are the only form of canon for this verse so yea you lost the other thread. Give it up.

Yahweh speaks and vegito dies here.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,509 posts) See mini bio Level 17

This thread is...

LOL

Post by CerusSerenade (2,479 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne: So being damaged by a human doesn't decrease YHVH's durability or speed feats, but Arceus being tagged by his own creations does? How do you figure that?

: If we are to take the amala universe statement by Lucifer to be true why didn't he just use that power instead of going through the painstaking megiddo ark in the second game?

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@CerusSerenade:

To answer both your questions, you read everything we typed but simply refused to understand. You are being willfully ignorant.

Also it is seen that in fact he was not damaged but pretended to be to see if Aleph would actually try to kill him. He did. So YHWH sent him into an infinite loop of death. Also please look at the gameplay. You are saying it was just a human. It was a human and a team of casual multiverse busters( which speaks quite highly of YHWH's durability) that as seen did not even really defeat him lol.

Also stop comparing him with Arceus because they are just not on the same level. Everyone here has agreed that. If you keep doing it you really are showing us that you do wank Arceus quite a bit. Arceus got hit by a meteor and was damaged he also moves slow as a turtle. Get over it. That is just how the pokemon universe is. He does not have to be that strong in order to be the God of the Pokemon universe. You giving him assumed feats just because it says he created the universe doesn't make him any better. I bet you probably believe he can fight YHWH or TOAA because you make it sound as though Arceus has an arsenal of great feats which you have never shown. There aren't even that many statements about him anyway other than your own and they get contradicted by a meteor.

YHWH stomps Arceus and Goku at the same time by using voice of God. This thread is done just lock it, save whats left of the respect I have for Cerus by doing so~

Post by othus12 (6,360 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@TheNeutralOne said:

@CerusSerenade:

save whats left of the respect I have for Cerus by doing so~

it has finally come to this LOL

Post by CerusSerenade (2,479 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne: Oh, I'm fully aware that Arceus is not on the level of YHVH, however the point I'm making is they were both killed by relatively inferior beings, thus their durability is questionable. They both create and destroy universes, as well as concepts and conceptual beings. Even if you say the universe was being destroyed because two things cannot occupy the same space, it still means that Arceus is capable of the strength required to force the new universe into that space to destroy the old one.

You also need to stop the strawman crap you're making up. I never said YHVH was omnipotent, and the fact that you have to resort to this weak fallacy is indicative of your own inability to argue against my points.

I have shown you time and time again of screenshots stating a new universe was being born, and of screenshots and videos showing that time had stopped, but you ignored them. The fact of the matter is you're the willing-fully ignorant one, as you ignore the pokemon statements because of the meteor, but take YHVH over them even though he was killed by a human.

Of which particular point haven't I provided a video or screnshot for that wasn't in the previous thread? What argument can you make that proves that Arceus cannot create and destroy universes when it was stated and heavily implied that he could? Why should we ignore YHVH's death by a human and put so much weight on Arceus being harmed by a meteor?

Post by dccomicsrule2011 (220 posts) See mini bio Level 7

lol this thread fails.

Post by othus12 (6,360 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

lol cerus fails.

fixed it for ya.

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