@Kraden: IT isn't speed.
Also Goku needs to consciously activate IT which takes a few seconds. In those seconds, The Runner, Zoom and Flash would have already raced through the entire universe.
Two words... Instant Transmition
LOL!!!!!!! thats true..so true. but sonic has chaos control, so....
@Newdeath: you dont understand. i guess i have to break it down for you
@justanormalguy: and you.
now, lookie here. before i go on, i would once again like to go onto Death.
ok, you put everything i say down into the ground, but everything you say, im supposed to listen to? i dont think so. you put up nothing about flash going through time and going "500x faster than light" WITHOUT the speed force mind you. last time i check, it was NOT "speed force vs sonic and etc", it was the flash ALONE vs sonic and etc. how come everyone else has to start off with their speed, but flash has all this "speed force" help? if you want to add the speed force, then everyone else will have nothing to do but follow suit to make the race more fair. this means that goku can instant trans miss (and trans miss, mind you, can travel to GALAXIES.) or even FLY instead of running, sonic has the wisps AND chaos emeralds, which give sonic an infinite supply of speed. and when i say infinite, i MEAN infinite. also, speedy and RR will have to apply their cartoon physics. and cartoon physics have the power to do literally ANYTHING. that one change you want to add to flash will change the whole race. are you sure you want to do this? and if you agree to add everything to the race thinking that even the wisps and chaos emeralds STILL wont match up with flash's speed, you are ever so wrong.
so now, i am speaking to the both of you. i will ask both of you 2 questions.
1. what does "the fastest thing alive" mean to you? im curious. flash says proudly says that he is the "fastest man alive" DC even says quite firmly that flash is too. dont lie to me. i even looked flash up in a DC encyclopedia, and it said that.
2. what is flash's highest point in speed without the speed force?
also, i would like to point out that being faster than light is really not impressive. sonic can JOG at light speed, and then DASH above it for fun. the speed of light is like a no brainer in the sonic universe. even SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG can do it. even 500x times wont match up to it, because guess what? the chaos emeralds have limitless power. if sonic taps into it, the speed at what sonic can reach is unthinkable. not even 7 million. not even 130 trillion. not even the highest number anyone can think of, because sonic is infinitely faster than that number. he himself doesnt know. his speed is unwrap able to the mind. i think i can wrap my mind around "500x faster". the limit to flash's speed is self explanatory. 500x. sonic would probably have a mental break down from laughing so hard if flash told him thats how fast he can run. sonic can SNEEZE faster than that.
sonic can go SO fast that, indeed, instead of ESCAPING a black hole, sonic can BE a black whole. and this is in base form here. using the wisps, he can spin around so fast that he activates black hole abilities. tell me---no---SHOW me when flash made a black hole because of his speed.
here is the proof, right here. what you you guys got?
and we dont even know by how much. and this in sonic's regular mode, with sonic not even trying.
the violet wisp:
"Turns Sonic into a black hole that will suck in enemies and rings."
so get back to me when you have enough proof, and with both of your ideas on what the fastest thing alive means to you.
otherwise, no, i will not "deal with it", and in this case, sonic wins.
The fastest thing alive means that he is the fastest thing alive.....in his own universe. When compared against people from other universes that statement becomes invalid.
I get what you mean by saying without the SpeedForce Flash wouldn't be as fast as he is but in the DC Universe the SpeedForce is like air. It's always there, you can't just get rid of it.
By taking away the SpeedForce you're effectively taking Flash's abilities. The SpeedForce is the source of the Flash's powers. It's like taking away all of Sonic's abilities like Lightspeed Dash. The chaos emeralds and wisps are something separate altogether because they are an accessory kind of item. You need to collect them first before you can use them. I also follow Sonic and I have not come across anything that suggested that Super Sonic's speed was infinite anyway.
"Barry Allen is the very source and creator of the Speed Force,and generates it with every step he takes." From DC Wiki. There you go. He created the Speed Force, it is him. You can't take the Speed Force away from him in this battle because then you might as well take Sonic's speed away from him.
"Sonic is known best for his speed, with the ability to run at speeds greater than Mach 1 (known from Sonic X), which is at the blistering speed of 768 miles per hour. This is evident in many games, where Sonic is recorded to run at speeds faster than 765 mph. In Sonic Unleashed, the checkpoint posts (Star Posts) also act as radars that clock Sonic's speed when he passes them. Due to the fact that his speed increases the longer he's boosting, it's possible for the checkpoint posts to show Sonic's max speed in-game, being able to clock him going at over 2,500 mph. It is also stated in the Sonic Adventure DX manual that "He's the world's fastest, hypersonic hedgehog" which is at a staggering speed of 3,840 mph." From the link you provided.
How long does Sonic stay in Spinball mode? From all the games I've played it's usually a few seconds before he slows back down. It was said he Sonic might be faster than Lightspeed in the future but at present he is not. Even if he was it ludicrous to even imagine he would go from being near Lightspeed to several times Lightspeed in just a short amount of time. That's quite a massive gap in speed.
In conclusion I'm basically saying you can't take the Speedforce away from Flash because he is the Speedforce. I'm also saying you can't really use wisps and chaos emeralds in this battle because they are items, not an actual ability. Even if you do use them, Superman escaped from a blackhole and as far as I know it has never been stated that Super Sonic's speed is infinite.
@Iju: Flash is a speedster connected to the Speed Force. Your statements and questions make no sense. Do you hear yourself? That's like saying McDonalds is the same without Big Macs. No. The Speed Force is what grants Flash his speed. That's it. Get over it. That's how it is. He is the fastest being in the universe. Runner is faster than Sonic. Zoom is faster than Sonic(well, not really "faster" per say, but Sonic would never beat Zoom in a race competition simply because Zoom wouldn't let him do anything. Lol.). The Speed Force has granted the Flash to outrun Death, go back in time... I mean, I don't understand why you are getting so mad over this? The Flash wins. Lol. Stop getting so mad.
I get what you mean by saying without the SpeedForce Flash wouldn't be as fast as he is but in the Marvel Universe the SpeedForce is like air. It's always there, you can't just get rid of it.
Something about that was addressed in the Marvel/DC crossover. He had like a Speed Force pack that kept him connected to it. Without it, Quicksilver smoked him.
I'm not too knowledgeable about instances with the Flash without the Speed Force. Makes no sense that he could run at light-speed without it.
@Iju: Sonic can't jog at the speed of light. Like I said, show me Sonic doing something as impressive as escaping two black holes, something that even Superman did. If he can't even do that then there's no way in hell that he's faster than Flash, The Runner or Zoom or even Superman LOL
@taichokage: The Runner and Speedy Gonzales don't have any high-scale toonforce feats that would make them faster than anyone here. If we count Zoom's power as speed and Goku's IT as speed then the list would be:
But if we don't count IT and Zoom's power as speed then the list would be:
alright alot of you guys know nothing about sonic the hedgehog. I will tell you how fast he is, I will show you that he is easily faster than the speed of light. Now this is gonna be alot so really listen closely.
Sonic the Hedgehog, on average, is known to run faster than the speed of sound. sonic could instantly accelerate faster than the speed of sound with ease as shown in sonic x episode 1.
in sonic unleashed the checkpoints posts. also act as radars that clock Sonic's speed when he passes them. which clocked his fastest speed of being able to go over 2,500 mph.
It is also stated in the Sonic Adventure DX manual that ''He's the world's fastest, hypersonic hedgehog'' which is at a staggering speed of 3,840 mph.
Sonic can move at the speed of light. as shown in Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes and in sonic generations. In those games sonic has specific light speed set of moves. the light speed dash and light speed attack.
Since Sonic Heroes, he can perform the light attack fast and didn't need to charge anymore. for the dash, he no longer needs to charge as of sonic adventure 2.
The Light Speed Dash returns in Sonic Generations as one of Modern Sonic's normal abilites.
in Sonic CD Using his unrivaled speed, Sonic managed to travel through time and ensure a good future for the Little Planet. And that was him in his no
Omega also stated in Sonic Colors (DS) that with Sonic's current progress, he would surpass the speed of light.''
in the Archie Comics. in the early going, Sonic outraced shadows and was faster than light.
he could also vibrate his molecules to slip threw solid objects.
In Hyper Sonic #134: Something about 2 missiles on opposite ends of continents about to hit. He pushed himself to his extreme limit, and really straned himself, entering a realm where time was stopped. He then proceeded to take out the threats in no time. After this, he had trouble getting out of this accelerated mode and was nearly stuck permemantly , until he found how to slow himself down to get out of it.
sonic has different forms of speed, regular, super, ultra, hyper, sonic can also hit warp zones and use chaos control (with an emerald).
Chaos Control :
CC is a completelydifferent level, you could "try" assigning a speed to a few of the times they use it in certain ways, but not really.
For STARTS , CC allows teleporting,warping of space and time,generally anything related to what i just mentioned(like timetravel and dimension hopping) so... seriously? a measure of speed? lol.
Super Sonic transformation- Super Sonic enhances his speed- that's all they officially say about him. What's he's performed in feats-he's faster than light without effort, and doesn't strain to go faster at all. Sonic X- in Sonic X he travels through time and space -under his own power.
Archie gave Super Sonic some feats such as crossing the planet in under a second(Super Sonic's first archie fight), but...not much .
He did avoid a black hole, but it's not that impressive, though physics says you must be FTL to escape those.(as if Super Sonic could have been hurt anyway.
Super Sonic's Sonic Rumble move- he dashes with afterimages behind him, up to a opponent, seems to do nothing, then just instantly appears where he started ,and then a glowing haze forms where he was at,caused from attacking X enemy numerous times at such a speed; it was a "delayed effect".
Finishing up: The archie feat lets him move at anywhere in no time- which equates to infinite speed due to that factor. And that was him in his BASE form.
He could just use CC and 'time stop' to get that^ or externally, seriously Stop Time for all, (Sonic X), but he prefers his speed over CC.
I just showed good evidence sonic the hedgehog is way beyond light speed.