@Newdeath: Why do I always have to repeat myself verbatim....? Man, it really gets annoying....
Really, do I need to go into explaining feats and how the show works? Do I have to? You should be smart enough to figure out that Dragon Ball Z characters are light-speed.
@justanormalguy: You should be smart enough to figure out that they aren't. If they are, prove it. And not with ludicrous calculations. Prove them with actual feats and not that ridiculous Raditz feat that people try to pass off as light-speed. Anyway, light-speed does not equal FTL which pretty much Superman, Flash, The Runner, Sonic and Zoom possess.
ND
@ohgodwhy: ok, then. you asked for it...this is a previous post from me to another guy who thought the same thing you do.
its pretty long, but, hey. this is how i deal with things.
"ive been waiting for someone like you to reply to this. let me show you the ways how sonic will win....
1. speed.
sonic has been through time and freaking space using his pure speed. he is so fast, that, indeed, he is unchartable. nothing can touch the fastest thing alive, dude....
flash? hmmm...he needs a FREAKN' LAME TREADMILL!!!
2. running physics.
how flash will lose is simply because he refuses (and quite stupidly i might add) to be the wind. "be the wind?" you might ask. "what is that?" but if you read on you will know what i mean.
take picture #1..
LOL HE LOOKS SOOO STUPID!
*ahem* now to explain...
see how his feet and arms are like that? that is the utter ridiculousness about how flash runs that makes me laugh right out loud. he is running all wrong. it looks too dumb how he runs. allow me to explain.. flash's running is like you taking a full sheet of paper and dropping it on the ground. all you will see, ( as if you dont already know) it drifts, it flutters, and takes a long time before it hits the ground. "what does flash have to do with paper?" you ask again. keep reading... really, what i mean is that, just like the full sheet of paper, flash, for some ridiculous reason, is blocking the wind, therefore making it slower and harder for him to pick up speed, unlike a balled up sheet of paper. his huge body is hitting the wind at every angle, and running that way he makes it even harder on himself. you may not notice it, or heck, HE may not even notice it, but he is running incredibly wrong, thats its hilarious, really.
now for picture #2 .....(in the middle)
(heh, heh.... i love that picture...) DONT TOUCH THOSE VIDEOS YET!
anyway, look at sonic. his face nodded down, hands behind him, and feet low so that as soon as his first foot takes the first step to running, his other on will be there instantly, pushing him off faster.
sonic, who knows everything there is to speed, is being the wind. thats all there is to it. make your body as slim and as small as possible to "blend in" with the wind, so that you are as close to being it as possible. he looks like an arrow, really...
3. am i lying?
certainly not. i dont only have pictures to show you, but videos, too. if you look closely, using that same running tactic, sonic made BLUE FIRE 7 WHOLE TIMES. if you look at what speed he went at the end, he didnt even go 40,000 mph. 38,000 mph and you make blue fire, sonic is faster than that, so imagine (if you can) what fire he can make at 90,000 mph! do i even need to add that he ran through that level in under 3 minutes? see what you can do when you be the wind? (blue fire, mind you, is the 2nd hottest fire on earth.) and not only that, but he made it on STONE. stone doesnt even catch fire! sonic does the impossible when is comes to speed.
flash may make fire, but not blue! let alone white~ the hottest fire on earth, period.
4. speed origin.
the reason why sonic is faster than flash is probably because he was born with that speed and power. flash was born a regular person, so he didnt and will never know what its like to use your first years and the rest of them practicing running, to get faster. flash became fast in is 20's. thats pretty late compared how sonic spent all his life (and still is) to find out how to go faster. tell me, does flash TRAIN in anyway to find out and unleash more ways to go faster? im pretty sure he doesnt, because flash is a proud idiot, and he thinks if he is faster than the tiny world he lives in, hes faster than anything. he thinks he doesnt need to train, and he therefore, doesnt. sonic, on the other hand, is the fastest thing alive and STILL trains to find true speed. if you still need proof, (because i kinda know that you american hero lovers do,) here is another one. i used sonic unleashed first, and now i am using sonic cd. for half of the video, you cant even SEE him. he made THAT one in under 2 minutes. in just a minute and 30 seconds, he made it.
here are the vids on sonic making blue fire and sonic cd.
i rest my case..sonic wins."
i will post more if you STILL want proof. thank you!
@Sonata: speedy gonzales....
@Newdeath: LOL i cant stop looking at the face of superman!!! oh, well....
the reason why these "scans" are laughable is because sonic is woefully faster than him or anyone in the comic world.
HM. for all that speed, superman STILL didnt make that doppler effect.....what? the doppler effect? oh, im glad you asked. first off, the doppler effect is what happens when you begin to reach to the speeds of the impossible. second, what happens when you reach the doppler effect, is when a blue or red aura forms around you and makes a sound. this,in essence, is the key to all speed you want to reach. not the "speed force."
IMPORTANT! IF you do have a red aura aorund you, this means you are almost to the key of unlocking speeds, but not quite. when you make a red low pitched sound, that means you are going at sub sonic speeds.
if you have a clear, high pitched sound and a BLUE aura aound you, you have the key! unfortunatly, none of the DC heroes has never done ANY of this, let alone the least of the doppler effect, like the red effect.
BUT! sonic CAN! proof? here ya go!
there! a clear high, pitched sound, and a blue aura aound sonic. oh and in case you didnt notice, sonic made BLUE FIRE, the second hottest fire on earth. and not only THAT, but he made blue fire on STONE! stone doesnt even catch fire! but sonic made it possible!
so post up all the scans in the universe of DC. i dont care. if any of the DC characters made this doppler effect, then ill sit up and take notice. otherwise, sonic is faster than all of them put together.
think i am lying about this "doppler effect"? no, im not. this is actually true, search "doppler effect" in you search engine. its true.
@Iju: Sonic is faster than Superman, a case can be made for Sonic. Also it doesn't matter if Superman didn't generate the doppler effect, he still escaped from two simultaneous black holes, that is a genuine FTL speed feat. Goku is one of the slower competitors so he's not important. Now as for Sonic being faster than Flash, The Runner and Zoom, you are so wrong.
Sonic might be faster than Superman but that's it. Flash has not only moved well over 500 times the speed of light, he's run so fast that he broke free from the time dimension. Sonic has no speed that compares to literally outrunning time itself. And Zoom constantly makes Flash look like a statue as well as the entire JL which consists of FTL fighters Wonder Woman, GL, Captain Marvel, Superman. And as for The Runner, he blitzed the hell out of the Silver Surfer. And the Silver Surfer has searched through the entire universe from every to end to the next in less than a second, that's better than anything Sonic's ever done and yet The Runner blitzed him so bad it was outright ridiculous to see such speed.
And as for the doppler effect, I'm well aware of it. I'm familiar with science but when you try to bring in real world physics into a comic book or any fictional setting then it's ludicrous. The doppler effect doesn't apply to anyone here because they aren't real. Frankly if you want to use real world physics to downplay Superman's FTL feat, you should then go on to use Einstein's theory of relativity to point out how it's impossible for any of these characters to move faster than the speed of light. You speaking of the doppler effect was completely useless and not beneficial because real world physics don't apply to fictional characters, if real world physics applied to them then they shouldn't even be moving faster than light in the first place, but more than half of the competitors in this thread do. Zoom, Flash and The Runner are faster than Sonic. Unless you can post a scan showing Sonic outrunning time itself or moving around the entire universe in less than a second, Sonic is the fourth fastest here. Period. So yeah, it's:
ND
Ah nothing of what you posted made any sense. I thought you would have provided scans or videos of Sonic actually moving at lets say many times the speed of light but all you posted was something about blue fire, which you seem to think makes Sonic move faster than light.
Also running technique means nothing when you compare people of two completely different speeds. It's like comparing a 12 year old running like Sonic against Usain Bolt running like Flash. There's no correlation unless they were both the same speed in which case you could compare them. Flash is simply faster, he could run backwards and he'd still be faster. I suppose if you really needed to be convinced further you could just look at the athletes of today. No one runs like Sonic, it's simply not an economical running style.
Finally I don't think you fully appreciate what 500x FTL speed implies. You posted that video where Sonic was running across that land in 1:30. That's fast no doubt but if he could move at 500x FTL like the Flash can he would have done that in 0.0001 seconds at just a guess. Probably even faster than that.
Also I am not American and I do not care for American heroes. I prefer Sonic over Flash but you just have to accept facts for what they are and not be biased.
I agree with Newdeath's final list but I would say Speedy is as equally fast as Roadrunner.
: ok, you
: and you want proof? FINE. GLADLY! in just a moment, please. i gotta talk to death for a minute. oh, and flash running backwards? post up some scan of him doing it. and tell me when the comic issue came out, too.
ok, on your comment on "the real world physics cant be applied to fake character" thing. if it cant be applied, how come sonic did it?????? hm, because SONIC IS HEAVILY BASED IN SCIENCE! all the way down to his atoms, he is through and through, science. maybe your heroes cant be based in science, but mine is. look up anything scientific that has to do with speed and sonic has done not only that, but had reached above it. like i said before, you want proof? i have nothing but it. really, your asking of my scans is like asking me what 2+2 is. this is easy!
here we go!
ok, new death. you want firstly, sonic running "out of time". heh. get it?
anyway....
starting at 43 seconds, sonic goes in to...what? oh...THROUGH TIME! i would also like to put in the fact that sonic can light dash (thats right, DASH at light speed) without as much as blinking. before i go on, i would like to bring in Einey here. he said that....
"If one were able to move information or matter from one point to another faster than light, then according to special relativity, there would be some inertial frame of reference in which the signal or object was moving backward in time."
(Courtesy of Wikipedia)
thus time travel :)
flash is so illogical and so anti-science that he travels 500 TIMES faster than the speed of light and dosen't even travel time or anything of the like. sonic on the other hand, aknowledges this theory and obeys it. what i am saying is that i hate the DC universe (excluding Batman) for always adding illogical, over the top examples of speed; disregarding the immutable laws of physics and speed!
ok, one more thing before i go onto more proof. i would like to give you something: (its pretty long, you can skip it all of you want.)
from the DC wikia: http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Flash_(Barry_Allen)#Powers
"Accelerated Healing - Speed Force conduits are not invulnerable nor durable enough to sustain damage however if they are harmed they will heal at high speeds. Any normal wear and tear damage to their bodies are almost instantly healed.
• Decelerated Aging - Speed Force conduits have a slowed aging process. This power can be imparted on their most intimate loved ones by extended contact rather than distribution.
• Energy Construct Creation - Speed Force conduits can use the matter generated by their speed to create solid objects such as walls or bridges. This power requires constant concentration and reapplication of the construct for it to remain stable. Flash's after images are also construct creations.
• Flight - Speed Force conduits can rotate their arms and spin their bodies like tops to achieve something of a kind of helicopter flight. However, with practice conduits can even achieve controllable flight if launched at high speeds. Despite their flight abilities they are always faster on their feet.
• Increased Perceptions - Speed Force conduits traveling at the speed of sound may miss important events as they run by. The Speed Force grants them enhanced senses that allow them to see, hear, smell, touch and/or taste at an increased speed and understand it as it is processed.
• Infinite Mass Punch - Speed Force conduits have an increased level of strength added to their bodies which they can impart in different ways. Certain speedsters can strength each and every move they make however this requires attention and stress for each movement and therefore is almost never used. In most cases conduits can focus the Speed Force's extra-dimensional energies into one massive punch; when used in practiced this punch pushed a metahuman from one continent to another.
• Phasing - Speed Force conduits can vibrate their molecules so quickly that they can achieve intangibility for short bursts allowing them to phase through objects.
• Self-Sustenance - Speed Force conduits travel at incredible speeds which cause their bodies to work overtime. In situations where their bodies may be too fast for them to breathe they may impart on the Speed Force for sustenance. However, this almost always results in the conduits having an increased metabolism at all times requiring them to constantly refill their energy supplies.
• Sharing the Force - Speed Force conduits can allow their friends or family members to run along side them at their equaled speeds. Certain conduits who may only have minor access to the Force may achieve full levels of the Force due to the main conduit's association with it.
• Speed Force Aura - People who are propelled by the conduits during high speed situations can survive the harsh conditions associated with mach speeds. When the conduit must rescue an individual from a burning building these individuals will be protected while within the aura.
• Speed Force Conduit - People who, for whatever reason, are connected to the Speed Force are sometimes called Speed Force Conduits. This means that they are connected to the Speed Force and are tethered to it. Some characters may control their Speed Force imparted powers in different ways such as only Superhuman Strength or even directed through Lighting but no matter their adaptions they are still connected to the Force.
• Steal Speed - Speed Force conduits can steal the accelerated motion or momentum from objects or people to reduce their speed or even virtually stop them. Conduits may also steal the speed from other Speedsters or other fast moving people.
• Supercharged Brain Activity - Sometimes neglected by Speedsters who only operate at superhuman speeds and never slow down enough to understand their full potential; Speedsters can access superhuman levels in their brains further than processing information. They can test theories, understand difficult equations and run trial and error in their brains at superhuman speeds. Different conduits access this activity in different ways.
• Superhuman Endurance - Speed Force conduits have to access the Speed Force for a number of different tasks. Most Speedsters use their superhuman speed and react at superhuman speeds; therefore, they must run for extended periods or operate for a large amount of time. Their bodies can handle the stresses of superhuman racing without noticeable distress.
• Superhuman Speed - Speed Force conduits have one main ability above all else. Conduits are connected to the barrier and accumulation of all Speed known in their universe. These characters immediately understand how to run at superhuman speeds and their bodies instinctively understand how to react at high-speed situations. Older speedsters have a reduced but maxed speed of 770mph which is just below sonic booms allowing them to react to situations without causing civilians undo stress. Speedsters in their prime can travel at much faster speeds such as the max level of recorded aided speed on Earth and even reach the speed of light with enough willpower. It is possible for conduits to travel much faster than the speed of light however such levels require an incredible amount of stress. Speedsters unaccustomed to their max level of speeds may detach themselves from the Speed Force or even become part of the Speed Force by accident.
• Vortex Creations - Speed Force conduits that plant themselves on the ground and rotate their extremities can cause an incredible amount of wind to burst through their focused funnel. Most Speedsters use this ability automatically when they run reducing the air currents around their body to low enough levels to no longer inhibit their speed. Creatively, Speedsters can create tornadoes and gusts with their arms"
i told you it was long! ;) please dont quote this long thing here.
anyway, as you can plainly see, flash relies on the speed force on how you and i do on gravity. i would like to point out that flash isnt fast alone. as you can see, the speed force only allows him to run fast. not himself, alone. just a little reminder to you that flash is fast on the speed force's mercy. not on his own. another thing, conduits are under MUCH stress to travel FTL something sonic can do casually at will! it is undeer the "Superhuman Speed" section. i might also point out that the flash needs intergalactic treadmills to time travel. for all of the FTL speeds he still needs a treadmill?! DC Logic FTW!....phff as if!
sonic, on the other hand, was--as i said previously-- was born with the power. flash, no. you cant lie about that. now, on to sonic and that universe.
as i have shown. sonic has the power to travel thorough time without the use of any external power whatsoever. he has no use for emeralds,treadmills, speed forces, time stones or anything
theoreticaly, he would have 0 trouble going from ends of the galaxy as i have shown by demonstrating the feats sonic has done. i am forced to say this since sonic is not on such a galactic scale as the justice league.
with all this being said i rest my case. and if base or super for fail to do it...one word HYPER!
this takes his speed from base and super form and pushses it even further.
k im done. whats your argument?
@Iju: Are you kidding me? If real world physics could be applied then NONE OF THESE CHARACTERS WOULD BE MOVING AT LIGHTSPEED. Real world physics wouldn't permit it. Of course Sonic did it, he's ridiculously inconsistent and so is his universe.
Time travel? LOL even Superman has managed to time travel before. You're entire argument is attempting to use real world physics to make a pathetic case for Sonic winning which is honestly laughable. Why don't you go ahead and post an impressive feat.
Unless you post a feat of Sonic exceeding 500 times the speed of light, you have nothing to use as a counterargument. Flash has time traveled so many times it's ridiculous. Flash has moved so fast that he outran time, he outran time. He literally moved fast enough to break free from the fabric of time. Sonic has never ever ever ever done that so he's slower than Flash.
Nobody cares if you don't like the DC Universe for not applying the laws of physics in their comics. No comic book universe does that. You think the absence of real world physics makes them any less faster? Sonic doesn't even have a feat that compares to Flash's 500 times the speed of light feat. He doesn't. Post a feat of Sonic moving faster than 500 times the speed of light and you have an argument. Hell, post a feat of Sonic escaping from two simultaneous black holes, if you can't a post a better speed feat than that then he's not even faster than Superman.
I won't even get into The Runner who is fast enough to move through the entire universe in less than a nanosecond or Zoom who is much faster than Flash.
What's the deal with the treadmill? Who cares. Flash is still faster. You can bash on the comic book characters all you want, you're still wrong because your best feat is Sonic moving through time, big deal! Even Superman has moved through time with his speed, and The Runner, Flash and Zoom are incalculably faster than him and Sonic. Flash didn't even have to time travel, he outran time itself, meaning he moved fast enough to escape the fabric of time. The Runner blitzing the Silver Surfer so bad he couldn't even see shows that he is faster than the Surfer who went from one end of the universe to every other in less than a second, that's well over millions of times faster than light, Flash is only faster than him because he was able to outrun time. And Zoom is faster than all of them seeing as how he constantly makes Flash look like a statue.
Your last argument was just you bashing the other characters, making fun of them, trying to use real world physics like it would even help your argument, and talking about running techniques. Like running techniques make a difference when one character is overwhelmingly faster than the other. A 2 year old can try and run like Sonic, I could run backwards in the most unorthodox manner and still win. Your attempt at saying that Sonic affects physics is laughable because these characters are from different universes. If Sonic's universe uses real world physics, great for him, but the DC Universe, Marvel Universe, Darkhorse Universe, and many others don't so yeah, Flash, Zoom and The Runner are way faster than Sonic. Deal with it.
ND
Goku is one of the slower competitors so he's not important.
Completely false. Goku's speed is implemented in other ways. The character has shown light speed properties.
I don't follow bull Movie Codec or whatever the hell that other popular one is. Outskirts whatever. They are biased opinions. Very biased in fact.
Goku has shown light speed interactions, not only in combat, but movement as well.
(Pre-Cognition powers will already determine your responses to the following that I will post) "No, you're wrong".
Superman is the long run looks faster than Goku. I'm not gonna argue that. The stupidity of the character and flying out of black holes and through space in an instant is far above anything Goku has ever done, but his speed does hit light. IT grants him even faster maneuverability.
Goku is not as slow as you try and make him out to be.
@Iju: ...I'm really not understanding the points you are trying to make in favor of Sonic being faster than the Flash. A man who can manipulate the speed force, and run at speeds far exceeding the speed of light in an instant, and can use the speed force to travel through time... I'm not understanding how Sonic is faster than him...
Sonic isn't even faster than Zoom, and Zoom isn't even about speed.
Everything ND has said was true. If you want to apply real world physics then it is impossible for anything with mass to exceed light speed. That's according to Einstein anyway. The whole point of this site is to compare fictional characters against one another, so whatever physics apply in said comic book character universe must be taken as truth. If the author states that Flash moves at 500x FTL then that is the truth and you must accept regardless of what you may believe.
@ohgodwhy said:
If you want to apply real world physics then it is impossible for anything with mass to exceed light speed.
Real world physics are always applied by everyone here in their debates. They try to use it to explain fictional events and characters, and they don't mix - the two of them. Why are people complaining now?
That's according to Einstein anyway.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/8782895/CERN-scientists-break-the-speed-of-light.html
Yes but at the end of the day what the author says to be true must be taken as such.
Second I've seen that article, if you believe that then that's fine I won't hold it against you. However many scientists believe that it was simply human error that lead to the light speed barrier being "broken".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XjS4I4oQDY&feature=relmfu
Please watch that it's a good video.
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