Who can stand against "D"?

Topic started by ReiKai on Nov. 14, 2011. Last post by Theorder14 1 year, 3 months ago.
Post by ReiKai (3,509 posts) See mini bio Level 10
I have clarified it before. You seem to misunderstand. You pick characters who either possess no swordsmanship or skill with a sword and just hax power, or those with skill and not the ability to overcome "D". Digimon have no skill or training with a sword, just the hax power that comes with their evolution. That's all. Teresa, Mihawk and Zoro all have skill and a fair bit of speed, but don't measure up to "D".
 
"D" has combat and reflex speed around lightspeed or above. None of those you propose are anywhere close to that. In terms of physical strength they may exceed "D" (except Kenshin), but with the kind of skill and ability employed by him, strength is meaningless. Kenshin is barely super-sonic, Mihawk and others are in the hypersonic ranges. None of which helps against "D" who is vastly superior to them in that regard.
 
Rey Yan is a trained and skilled swordsman. While the skills he employs are often in the form of special attacks, it was something he Learned and Worked for, as opposed to simply being given. The same applies to Tenchi, who has been trained and drilled in swordsmanship since he was a kid by his grandfather. They didn't start with hax powers, but acquired them later. This does not detract from the fact they were still Trained and Skilled Swordsman. Their hax moreover complemented the skill they already possessed.
 
It's easy to just find a hax character, throw a sword in his hands and say "he wins". It's not easy to find a character whose actually skilled in using a sword with the power and ability to tangle with "D". Most of those who get mentioned either have hax power and no skill or skill and no power to get the job done.
 
It's like this. Omnimon X could easily kill Kenshin, but Kenshin is a thousand times more skilled with a sword than Omnimon X could ever be.
Post by MohsinMan99 (1,777 posts) See mini bio Level 21

@ReiKai:

For starters, none of the characters you mentioned were my choices.

Second, there are continuities in DIgimon where not only the Digimon have lived for thousands of years, they have perfected their skills as well. Oh yeah, they are not fusions or evolutions either. There are many Digimon who specifically train and engage in sword-based combat and the Royal Knights including Omegamon have clashed swords with them and fended them off or defeated them. So lol at the "no training or skill with a sword". Also, Omegamon and Alphamon DO have those kind of stats as well as hax.

I like how you've completely ignored the question of how they are superior compared to D. To reiterate:

What makes their skill superior to D who as you yourself have listed can accomplish insane shit with just a regular sword? Do their swords possess special properties/grant special properties or are they just plain regular swords?

You are dismissing everything as not being in D's league but can your two choices accomplish shit like that with no outside power, no special abilities, weapons with nothing special about them whatsoever and just purely based on skill?

You say this so I'm sure they must have some good shit:

In terms of physical strength they may exceed "D" (except Kenshin), but with the kind of skill and ability employed by him, strength is meaningless

I'd certainly love some scans or statements showcasing their "superior" skill compared to D. Oh yeah, the lightspeed part of D as well.

You did answer one though albeit a bit indirectly.

Concerning "hax" abilities, is everything allowed or just sword based hax?

They didn't start with hax powers, but acquired them later. This does not detract from the fact they were still Trained and Skilled Swordsman. Their hax moreover complemented the skill they already possessed.

So, other hax is allowed I take it. This certainly raises the amount of potential characters who can beat D.

It's like this. Omnimon X could easily kill Kenshin, but Kenshin is a thousand times more skilled with a sword than Omnimon X could ever be.

Depends on which continuity we are talking about and your definition of what counts as skill. Omegamon X is basically an upgraded Omegamon. Experience with swords, years of training and fighting powerful opponents including "swordsmen"? Yes, some versions possess all that and more.

Post by ReiKai (3,509 posts) See mini bio Level 10

For starters, none of the characters you mentioned were my choices.

That was for everyone.

 Second, there are continuities in DIgimon where not only the Digimon have lived for thousands of years, they have perfected their skills as well.

You'd have to specifically state which version and providence evidence to prove this is the case and not simply another of the "Digidestined" last-minute hax powerup

I like how you've completely ignored the question of how they are superior compared to D. To reiterate:

I haven't. You need to understand that in terms of Pure Swordsmanship, there isn't anyone in fiction who can measure up to "D". Which is why for those here it requires both swordsmanship on top of personal abilities to get the better of him. Tenchi and Rey Yan possess both these qualities, that's why they are permissible. Most people just throw out names without considering the nature of "D"s abilities.
 
"D" cut the Akashic Record. Effectively he and his destiny is unknowable and cannot be controlled by any outside force, not even the Godhand in Berserk.

So, other hax is allowed I take it. This certainly raises the amount of potential characters who can beat D.

If they don't have swordsmanship to compliment it, they're not worth mentioning. Otherwise everyone just mentions omnipotents and multiversal figures and that's just boring, which is where your simple line of thought is going.
 
At least I know there are some other people around who realize this and put more serious thought into their considerations.
Post by MohsinMan99 (1,777 posts) See mini bio Level 21

@ReiKai:

I haven't. You need to understand that in terms of Pure Swordsmanship, there isn't anyone in fiction who can measure up to "D".

This was what I wanted to confirm. Sure enough, it seems there is no one who can surpass the skill possessed by D (as of now). While not at the level of D, I do think Fake Assassin deserves being mentioned as another exceptionally skilled swordsman, mostly due to him creating an almost impossible technique through skill and practice alone.

D-Cyber, Lost Evolution, Xros Wars, Xros Wars manga and a bunch of other continuities.

Otherwise everyone just mentions omnipotents and multiversal figures and that's just boring, which is where your simple line of thought is going.

Yeah, powerful characters are no fun.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,661 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@ReiKai: So D is a normal dude with epic sword skillz?

Post by ReiKai (3,509 posts) See mini bio Level 10
There are a lot of great swordsman in fiction. Akabara Strauss has insane skill ontop of being absurdly powerful. Gutts is extremely skilled and, while not possessing the absurd mountain-smashing powers of scores of other guys in fiction, he's definitely up there as one of the few guys who Legitimately Earned their place.
 
Gutts is up there as one of the best in fiction, for being one of the few guys without Super Powers as a swordsman and doing some damn amazing shit.
Post by DBZ_universe (15,661 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@ReiKai: Ah. So this guys would own Mihawk from OP?

Post by ReiKai (3,509 posts) See mini bio Level 10
@DBZ_universe said:

@ReiKai: So D is a normal dude with epic sword skillz?

"D" is the Dhampir son of the Sacred Ancestor (Dracula), a Vampire of unrivaled power who created technology on a 4th-dimensional level and who'd never been injured in all of history. Until "D" wounded him in "Raiser of Gales" via  a projection of sheer Will, something that even Left Hand thought could never happen.
 
@DBZ_universe said:

@ReiKai: Ah. So this guys would own Mihawk from OP?


Pretty handily. He's cut everything from indestructible metals to energy beings, intangibles, projections made of electrons, even space itself. He closed a wormhole with a sword thrust and with the Four Elements, destroyed a quasi-black hole.
Post by DBZ_universe (15,661 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@ReiKai said:

@DBZ_universe said:

@ReiKai: So D is a normal dude with epic sword skillz?

"D" is the Dhampir son of the Sacred Ancestor (Dracula), a Vampire of unrivaled power who created technology on a 4th-dimensional level and who'd never been injured in all of history. Until "D" wounded him in "Raiser of Gales" via a projection of sheer Will, something that even Left Hand thought could never happen.

@DBZ_universe said:

@ReiKai: Ah. So this guys would own Mihawk from OP?


Pretty handily. He's cut everything from indestructible metals to energy beings, intangibles, projections made of electrons, even space itself. He closed a wormhole with a sword thrust and with the Four Elements, destroyed a quasi-black hole.

Holy shot! That's badass! What series is D from?

Also off topic I started reading Bastard ^_^

Post by SMXLR8 (7,079 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@DBZ_universe said:

@ReiKai said:

@DBZ_universe said:

@ReiKai: So D is a normal dude with epic sword skillz?

"D" is the Dhampir son of the Sacred Ancestor (Dracula), a Vampire of unrivaled power who created technology on a 4th-dimensional level and who'd never been injured in all of history. Until "D" wounded him in "Raiser of Gales" via a projection of sheer Will, something that even Left Hand thought could never happen.

@DBZ_universe said:

@ReiKai: Ah. So this guys would own Mihawk from OP?


Pretty handily. He's cut everything from indestructible metals to energy beings, intangibles, projections made of electrons, even space itself. He closed a wormhole with a sword thrust and with the Four Elements, destroyed a quasi-black hole.

Holy shot! That's badass! What series is D from?

Also off topic I started reading Bastard ^_^

VAMPIRE HUNTER D , also I too will read bastard well soon anyway

Post by ReiKai (3,509 posts) See mini bio Level 10
"D" is from the "Vampire Hunter D" series. Novels are the Main Canon.
Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@ReiKai: I'm not talking about Tai and Matt's Omnimon from the movies. I'm talking about the Royal Knight Omnimon. The one who served (and I'm pretty sure killed) Yggdrasil, (Digimon God) for centuries . So as one of the legendary knights with centuries of experience, I'd say he has training and skill and does in fact make him a swordsman. Same goes for Alphamon.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,661 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@SMXLR8: @ReiKai: Thanks.

Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

Silvers Rayleigh

Shanks

Mihawk

Zaraki Kenpachi

Vergil(DMC)

Ryu Hayabusa

Maybe Chiyo from Toriko(though she uses knives not swords)

If You allow comics as well then:

Wonder Woman

Deathstroke

HawkEye

Batman

That's all i can think of, I'm really blanking on swordsman right now

Post by Dream (7,415 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

Surprised this baby's come back from the dead, with a certain someone still gloating for D.

"D" has combat and reflex speed around lightspeed or above.

So he's gone up from massively hypersonic speed to light speed now (where novel text proved he could cut a ground-to-air lightning bolt last time this baby was around)? Proof, or I take this as you exaggerating.

And last I recall, Omegamon would technically fit your "standards" of being a swordsman being one of the Royal Knight Digimon, who are all highly skilled in swordsmanship.

Post by ReiKai (3,509 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Thought I was done repeating quotes from the novels that you could read in earlier pages. Guess not.

Vampire Hunter D Vol.4 "Tale of the Dead Town"
Bowing and excusing himself, the physician did an about face. Just above him, there was a flash of silvery light. A bolt of lightning that was about to strike his head was split in half, and the fragments twitched on the ground. Completely oblivious to what had happened, Dr. Tsurugi raced off.

Ground-Air distance in this instance is between 900-1100ft max. Normal distance is around 6000ft or more. This drastically reduces the distance lightning had to travel, making it faster since jumping from particle to particle decelerates it. "D" later deflects a laser from Roland back at him, while blind, which was fired at someone else entirely.
Post by Dream (7,415 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

Ground-Air distance in this instance is between 900-1100ft max.

Still places him at massively hypersonic speeds.

"D" later deflects a laser from Roland back at him, while blind, which was fired at someone else entirely.

Lasers are significantly slower than light, so this point doesn't do well in proving D is near light speed.

Post by ReiKai (3,509 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Ground-Air of 6000ft or more, lightning touches ground at roughly 1/3rd lightspeed. "D"s lightning cutter is 2/3rds lightspeed or more. That's not "massively hypersonic" That's super luminal.  And lasers are not slower than light. An actual Laser is lightspeed. Heat Beams resemble lasers but are not the same thing, and the VHD series distinguishes between the two.
Post by Dream (7,415 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

Ground-Air of 6000ft or more, lightning touches ground at roughly 1/3rd lightspeed.

No. The speed of lightning is variable depending on how much electron plasma flows through the air during a storm, with most scientific assessments at least agreeing that an air-to-ground bolt is significantly slower than the speed of light.

Post by ReiKai (3,509 posts) See mini bio Level 10
I've done the research. It's 1/3rd the speed of light on average.
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