Whitebeard pirates vs Sauron & The Which King

Topic started by luthluth on Dec. 10, 2013. Last post by axavierhansz 7 months, 2 weeks ago.
Post by luthluth (1,230 posts) See mini bio Level 11
 
 
 
VS 
   
Sauron
 

    

&  
 
 
The Witch King
 
 
All in character  
Both Sauron and The Which King are in their prime 

Whitebeard pirates have no knowledge but get 3 months prep time 

Scenario 1 : Team 2 Immortality is taken away & logia intangibility for team 2 is removed
  
Scenario 2 : Team 2 and team 1 is in full play 
 
Scenario  3 : Fodder vs Fodder 
   
 
Fight takes place at Marineford
 
 
  
 
Who wins?!
Post by taichokage (12,684 posts) See mini bio Level 20
If its movie versions than anyone of the top 5 Whitebeard pirates solos. But if it's novel version, I recall Sauron at his peak being on some Demi God status. He would probably take it alone. My memory is a bit foggy with the novels so I could be wrong.
Post by KingOfAsh (1,333 posts) See mini bio Level 15

No man can kill the Witchking

Post by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (1,272 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@KingOfAsh: I was corrected on CV about that, it's just the prophecy said a woman would kill him or something...

Post by KingOfAsh (1,333 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk: It was Merry, using the blade he found in the Wights Burrow, actually. Either way, Whitebeard is neither Hobbit nor Woman.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

With that said none of them can kill marco or diamond jozu since none of them have haki or powerful enough strikes. So in the end stalemate?

Post by luthluth (1,230 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@TheNeutralOne:  Witch-king powers and abilities:

1. unnatural aura of fear they spread so almost every being is affected:

FRODO: I know. They were terrible to behold! But why could we all see their horses?

GANDALF: Because they are real horses; just as the black robes were real robes that they wear to give shape to their nothingness when they have dealings with the living.

FRODO: Then why do these black horses endure such riders? All other animals are terrified when they draw near, even the elf-horse of Glorfindel. ...

GANDALF: Because these horses are born and bred to the service of the Dark Lord in Mordor. Not all his servants and chattel are wraiths! There are orcs and trolls, there are wargs and werewolves, and there have been and still are many Men, warriors and kings, that walk alive under the Sun, and yet are under his sway. And their number is growing daily. - Many Meetings, Fellowship of the Ring

'Over the hills of slain a hideous shape appeared: a horseman, tall, hooded, cloaked in black. Slowly, trampling the fallen, he rode forth, heeding no longer any dart. he halted and held up a long pale sword. And as he did so a great fear fell upon all, defender and foe alike; and the hands of men dropped to their sides, and no bows sang. For a moment all was still.

2. spells pralyzing a person and telekinetically destroying swords (probably other objects as well):

"Then the leader, who was now half across the Ford, stood up menacing in his stirrups, and raised up his hand. Frodo was stricken dumb. He felt his tongue cleave to his mouth, and his heart labouring. His sword broke and fell out of his shaking hand. The elf-horse reared and snorted. The foremost of the black horses had almost set foot upon the shore." - Flight to the Ford, Fellowship of the Ring, p.227

3. wielding fire, making flaming swords:

"The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter.

"'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This my hour. Do you not know death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade." - The Siege of Gondor, Return of the King, p.103

4. controlling weather, power over ice and snow:

"Lossoth, the Snow Men of Forchel ... they were afraid of the Witch-king, who (they said) could make frost or thaw at his will." - Appendix A, The North Kingdom and the Dúnedain, Return of the King, p.322

"But the snow men were uneasy; for they said they smelled danger in the wind. And the chief of the Lossoth said to Arvedui: 'Do not mount on this sea-monster! If they have them, let the seamen bring us food and other things that we need, and you may stay here till the Witch-king goes home. For in summer his power wanes; but now his breath is deadly, and his cold arm is long.'" - Appendix A, The North Kingdom and the Dúnedain, Return of the King, p.322 and it was him who ultimately caused death of Arvedui (last king of Arnor) by making storm on the Ice Bay of Forochel, and trapping ship in ice (which broke hull of the ship and cause it's sinking)

5. blasting spells (examples of sorcery, Witch-king was the most powerful Nazgul):

"The drums rolled and rattled. With a vast rush Grond was hurled forward by huge hands. It reached the Gate. It swung. A deep boom rumbled through the city like thunder running in the clouds. But the doors of iron and posts of steel withstood the stroke.

"Then the Black Captain rose in his stirrups and cried aloud in a dreadful voice, speaking in some forgotten tongue words of power and terror to rend both heart and stone.

"Thrice he cried. Thrice the great ram boomed. And suddenly upon the last stroke the Gate of Gondor broke. As if stricken by some blasting spell, it burst asunder: there was a flash of searing lightning, and the doors tumbled in riven fragments to the ground." - Siege of Gondor, Return of the King, p.102 he can be also imbued with the power of Sauron himself:

,,The Witch-king, their leader, is more powerful in all ways than the others; but he must not yet be raised to the stature of Vol. III. There, put in command by Sauron, he is given an added demonic force. But even in the Battle of the Pelennor, the darkness had only just broken. See III 114." - Letter 210, Tolkien Letters, p.272

'The Nazgûl came again, and as their Dark Lord now grew and put forth his strength, so their voices, which utter only his will and his malice, were filled with evil and horrow. Ever they circled above the City, like vultures that expect their fill of doomed men's flesh. Out of sight and shot they flew, and yet were ever present, and their deadly voices filled the air. More unbearable they became, not less, at each new cry. At length even the stout-hearted would fling themselves to the ground as the hidden menace passed over them, or they would stand, letting their weapons fall from nerveless hands while into their minds a blackness came, and they thought no more of war, but only of hiding and of crawling, and of death.'

6. effects of Black Breath which will ultimately kill the oponents of Nazgul:

"But now their art and knowledge were baffled; for there were many sick of a malady that would not be healed; and they called it the Black Shadow, for it came from the Nazgûl. And those who were stricken with it fell slowly into an ever deeper dream, and then passed to silence and a deadly cold, and so died." - Houses of Healing, Return of the King, p.136 it only required a presence of Nazgul even at distance (short exposure may have temporary incapacitating effect): "'I found him, sir,' put in Nob. '...I went down to West-gate, and then back up towards South-gate. Just nigh Bill Ferny's house I thought I could see something in the Road. I couldn't swear to it, but it looked to me as if two men was stopping over something, lifting it. I gave a shout, but when I got to the spot there was no signs of them, and only Mr. Brandybuck lying by the roadside. He seemed to be asleep. 'I thought I had fallen into deep water,' he says to me, when I shook him. Very queer he was, and as soon as I had roused him, he got up and ran back here like a hare.'

"'I am afraid that's true,' said Merry, 'though I don't know what I said. I had an ugly dream, which I can't remember. I went to pieces. I don't know what came over me.'

"'I do,' said Strider. 'The Black Breath. The Riders must have left their horses outside, and asked back through the South-gate in secret. They will all know the news now, for they have visited Bill Ferny; and probably that Southerner was a spy as well." - Strider,Fellowship of the Ring, p.186

“…but the chief evil comes through the sword-arm. In that there now seems no life, although it is unbroken.

Alas! For she was pitted against a foe beyond the strength of her mind or body. And those who will take a weapon to such an enemy must be sterner than steel, if the very shock shall not destroy them.”

7. great durability (survived fall from big height, swept by flood, cannot be killed by arrows):

,,LEGOLAS: The Winged Messenger! I shot at them with the bow of Galadriel above Sarn Gebir, and I felled him from the sky. He filled us all with fear. What new terror is this?

GANDALF: One that you cannot slay with arrows. You only slew his steed. It was a good deed; but the Rider was soon horsed again. For he was a Nazgûl, one of the Nine, who ride now upon winged steeds. Soon their terror will overshadow the last armies of our friends, cutting off the sun."

8. necromancy (he made Barrow Wights which had powers of their own, causing trance-like state resembling death):

"They tried to pierce your heart with a Morgul-knife which remains in the wound. If they had succeeded, you would have become like they are, only weaker and under their command. You would have become a wraith under the dominion of the Dark Lord; and he would have tormented you for trying to keep his Ring, if any greater torment were possible than being robbed of it and seeing it on his hand." - Gandalf, Many Meetings, Fellowship of the Ring

GANDALF: ...You were in the gravest peril while you wore the Ring, for then you were half in the wraith-world yourself, and they might have seized you. You could see them and they could see you. - Many Meetings, Fellowship of the Ring

‘It was at this time that an end came of the Dúedain of Cardolan, and evil spirits out of Angmar and Rhudaur entered into the deserted mounds and dwelt there.’

9. skilled commander and tactician (ruled the realm of Angmar, containing tribes of men, which he thought sorcery, trolls, wargs, orcs, other evil creatures):

"But it was no orc-chieftain or brigand that led the assault upon Gondor. The darkness was breaking too soon, before the date that his Master had set for it: fortune had betrayed him for the moment, and the world had turned against him; victory was slipping from his grasp even as he stretched out his hand to seize it. But his arm was long. He was still in command, wielding great powers. King, Ringwraith, Lord of the Nazgûl, he had many weapons. He left the gate and vanished." - Battle of the Pelennor Fields, Return of the King, p.114

10. mental influence over his armies (and enemies by inducing fear at much greater scale):

‘“Some said that it could not be seen, like a great black horseman, a dark shadow under the moon. Wherever he came a madness filled our foes, but fear fell on our boldest, so that horse and man gave way and fled. Only a remnant of our eastern force came back, destroying the last bridge that still stood amid the ruins of Osgiliath.”’

'"They have paid dear for the crossing, but less dearly then we hoped...They swarmed across like beetles. But it is the Black Captain that defeats us. Few will stand and abide even the rumor of his coming. His own folk quail at him, and they would slay themselves at his bidding.'"

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@luthluth:

Can you skip to the part where they have enough durability to withstand a quake backed by haki which can make hitting the intangible possible?

I have yet to read the books but I plan to so i can't read that giant wall of text due to the large amounts of information leakage.

Post by luthluth (1,230 posts) See mini bio Level 11
I finished reading the Silmarillion about a year ago I recalled Sauron being able to shape shift, control minds wield powerful magic and fight with gods but its not as impressive as hes master Melkor who emptied oceans dry and threw down mountains with a single swing of hes mace also hes screams caused magma to rise from the earth. Melkors fight with the other gods called the valar shook the entire middle earth and intimidated the Evles just after they "awoke", he lost so much power when he poured all of it into hes army and greed to such an extent that peak mortals were able to hurt him with magical weapons.
Post by luthluth (1,230 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@TheNeutralOne: Sauron is able to withstand it and the witch king only survives due to immortality.
Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@luthluth:

k then i trust your judgement i guess

Post by ImDictatorBowDown (1,687 posts) See mini bio Level 12
Online Now

Isn't the witch King incorporeal? What exactly is Whitebeard supposed to do here?

Post by axavierhansz (240 posts) See mini bio Level 8

I'm not a Tolkien expert but isn't the Witch-King partially immune to all weapons except ones that are specially enchanted to kill Nazguls? Partially immune as in he can be hurt by ordinary weapons but he will never die from them and he'll just keep coming back for more.

And you can't take away their immortality because if you do they both die instantly from old age.

Also at his prime, Sauron had the one ring. On top of all sorts of powers he originally had, he is now also invisible. How will whitebeard deal with this?

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