Vegeta vs Shadow

Topic started by RadiantTheLight on May 20, 2011. Last post by jeanroygrant 1 year, 9 months ago.
Post by shakyric_lawson (64 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@GIRUGAMESH

1. Read above for the god thing.

2. Vegeta is capable of speedblitzing him, and is likely to go straight for the kill. Failing that, riddle me this; how often does Super Shadow go straight for the "warp them to the sun" option?

3. Where did you get black holes from? I wasn't aware Shadow had cosmic awareness that allows him to pinpoint the location of black holes. A scan/clip of him doing this with black holes would be nice.

4. It's funny that you say casually. People like you throw on these sorts of words to try and make your argument more convincing, but Shadow looked like he was putting a fair bit of effort into it from where I was sitting.

5. All I saw was him warping it to space, it had some ways to go before it reached the sun.

Please try harder.

1. Your argument that the Sonic cast cannot defeat dimension eaters because they are game mechanics makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Game mechanics is simply what developers put in GAMEPLAY to dictate the game and make it more fun. Gameplay mechanics are good for SOME things, but dismissing Solaris' defeat as a gameplay machanics is simply... well foolish(no offence).

Anyway, still on this point, Solaris' power and defeat were also shown OUTSIDE of gameplay. Which means that his defeat at the hands of the super hedgehogs was entirely legitimate.

2. Super Shadow doesn't warp straight to the sun because... and this is the most likely, he either simply doesn't need to, or simply doesn't think about it. Or perhaps a combination of both. Either way, its quite possible, which is the most important point, I believe.

3. No Shadow doesn't have a black hole tracking device in his head, LOL... but I'm sure Shadow is just as knowledgable, perhaps more so than most people(being 50+ years old) So I think he knows that there are Super-Massive-Black-Holes in the center of our galaxy. And as long as he knows their location, he can teleport there.

4. Observing Shadow's power can be a little tricky, I admit. The reason is because of the rings he wears on his wrist. In SA2, Shadow didn't take them off when teleporting the space-colony- ark with sonic, yet he was exhausted. This means that Shadow is either already at full power(highly unlikely) or simply, for some reason wasn't using his full power(which is most likely, considering that Shadow has done it only once in the games)

With this in mind, its obvious that Shadow exerted little to no effort in teleporting the black comet. If you watch DBZ, you know that characters can make something seem challenging, when at full power... they could defeat/do something with ease. Example:

Final form Frieza(50%) vs full powered Goku

Frieza vs Piccolo

Cell vs Trunks

ect.....

All of these are examples of characters, who could have easily defeated their opponents, showed signs of what we mistake for being a challeng. We both know that a full powered Frieza would of easily destroyed Piccolo. But when watching him and Piccolo fight in his 2nd form, we wouldn't be able to tell.

The point I'm trying to make is this. Shadow can exaust himself, and make it seem like he's going full power. When in reality he's holding back an ocean of chaotic strength. This is obvious in his fight with Mephiles more than anything else, which some have taken the liberty of posting here for me.

5. Doesn't actually matter. The strength one uses on chaos control(manipulating space in this case) is dictated by the size of their manipulation, not the distance. This means, that it wasn't the distance he teleported the black comet that matters. It was the size of it. Vegeta is small ( no he really is tiny, LOL) so teleporting Vegeta is no problem, super or not. If he tried to teleport the entire space colony ark by himself to the sun, being the size of a moon, Shadow would undoubtedly have to unleash maximum power.

Also, another reason he only teleported it that far is because, the space colony ark planet bust, was literally made to destroy the black comet.

Anyway, thats all... I look foward to your reply.

Post by Iju (98 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@shakyric_lawson: they wont listen to you. say vegeta wins OR ELSE!! XD well, while you're waiting, i am too.

Post by XImpossibruX (56 posts) See mini bio Level 7

I love how people say Shadow can defeat 1/3 of a god.

Something called game mechanics + he never showed anything Omnipotent or Universal scale fighting in the game.

Literally fly around Solaris and fire beams while collecting rings....

Vegeta stomps.

Post by Kurohige (3,679 posts) See mini bio Level 19

Oh lord, the Sonic saga begins once again...

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,136 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@shakyric_lawson said:

@GIRUGAMESH

1. Read above for the god thing.

2. Vegeta is capable of speedblitzing him, and is likely to go straight for the kill. Failing that, riddle me this; how often does Super Shadow go straight for the "warp them to the sun" option?

3. Where did you get black holes from? I wasn't aware Shadow had cosmic awareness that allows him to pinpoint the location of black holes. A scan/clip of him doing this with black holes would be nice.

4. It's funny that you say casually. People like you throw on these sorts of words to try and make your argument more convincing, but Shadow looked like he was putting a fair bit of effort into it from where I was sitting.

5. All I saw was him warping it to space, it had some ways to go before it reached the sun.

Please try harder.

1. Your argument that the Sonic cast cannot defeat dimension eaters because they are game mechanics makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Game mechanics is simply what developers put in GAMEPLAY to dictate the game and make it more fun. Gameplay mechanics are good for SOME things, but dismissing Solaris' defeat as a gameplay machanics is simply... well foolish(no offence).

Anyway, still on this point, Solaris' power and defeat were also shown OUTSIDE of gameplay. Which means that his defeat at the hands of the super hedgehogs was entirely legitimate.

2. Super Shadow doesn't warp straight to the sun because... and this is the most likely, he either simply doesn't need to, or simply doesn't think about it. Or perhaps a combination of both. Either way, its quite possible, which is the most important point, I believe.

3. No Shadow doesn't have a black hole tracking device in his head, LOL... but I'm sure Shadow is just as knowledgable, perhaps more so than most people(being 50+ years old) So I think he knows that there are Super-Massive-Black-Holes in the center of our galaxy. And as long as he knows their location, he can teleport there.

4. Observing Shadow's power can be a little tricky, I admit. The reason is because of the rings he wears on his wrist. In SA2, Shadow didn't take them off when teleporting the space-colony- ark with sonic, yet he was exhausted. This means that Shadow is either already at full power(highly unlikely) or simply, for some reason wasn't using his full power(which is most likely, considering that Shadow has done it only once in the games)

With this in mind, its obvious that Shadow exerted little to no effort in teleporting the black comet. If you watch DBZ, you know that characters can make something seem challenging, when at full power... they could defeat/do something with ease. Example:

Final form Frieza(50%) vs full powered Goku

Frieza vs Piccolo

Cell vs Trunks

ect.....

All of these are examples of characters, who could have easily defeated their opponents, showed signs of what we mistake for being a challeng. We both know that a full powered Frieza would of easily destroyed Piccolo. But when watching him and Piccolo fight in his 2nd form, we wouldn't be able to tell.

The point I'm trying to make is this. Shadow can exaust himself, and make it seem like he's going full power. When in reality he's holding back an ocean of chaotic strength. This is obvious in his fight with Mephiles more than anything else, which some have taken the liberty of posting here for me.

5. Doesn't actually matter. The strength one uses on chaos control(manipulating space in this case) is dictated by the size of their manipulation, not the distance. This means, that it wasn't the distance he teleported the black comet that matters. It was the size of it. Vegeta is small ( no he really is tiny, LOL) so teleporting Vegeta is no problem, super or not. If he tried to teleport the entire space colony ark by himself to the sun, being the size of a moon, Shadow would undoubtedly have to unleash maximum power.

Also, another reason he only teleported it that far is because, the space colony ark planet bust, was literally made to destroy the black comet.

Anyway, thats all... I look foward to your reply.

Well, interesting to have someone else arguing for Sonic, though it looks like you can form an argument better than 'others' (guess who).

1. 'Game mechanics' is a term sometimes used to account basically for PIS in games, i.e. Sonic defeating Solaris. As you say, the mechanics 'dictate' the game and its outcomes; developers may often create a boss on a much grander scale to make the game feel more 'epic', making for a more climatic finale. I have given the examples of the FF games in comparison to this. Riddle me this; if Sonic is indeed legitimately capable of defeating a multiverse warping, omnipresent being, then why does he have difficulty facing the likes of Eggman and his robots?

2. That is entirely irrelevant; it's purely speculative as well. Ok, maybe he didn't need to, but we don't know for sure. What was not proven is Shadow's ability to teleport an opponent directly into the sun, which is what 100Rings was arguing. If he didn't show it, then you are only speculating to say he could do it.

3. Has Shadow ever demonstrated that kind of knowledge? And even if he was aware of this, has he consistently teleported that kind of distance? His showings in many/most of the games would suggest not. Teleporting the distance of half a galaxy is slightly more difficult than teleporting something from earth to space.

4. I understand what you're getting at, but again it is purely speculative to say that Shadow was not using his full power. And you bring me to one of the central problems with this; their power fluctuates massively in the series, from having difficulty with Eggman's robots to facing the likes of Solaris. Therefore I use what I believe to be an average, or more consistent versions of the Sonic characters, which is why I reject the claims that Sonic and co are legitimately capable of facing universal beings. The argument of 'oh but they're holding back the whole time' simply doesn't hold up, it's absurd that they should force such difficulty on themselves in so many cases (especially when the earth is at stake) when they could effortlessly deal with it. Just doesn't seem plausible at all.

5. Refers back to point 2; that's fine if he didn't need to transport it that far, but there is still nothing to prove that he could have transported it to the moon, therefore the point is moot. As for transporting smaller objects (in this case Vegeta), that would make sense, but as he has still never shown a teleportation of that distance it still doesn't really hold up. Even if Shadow was capable of this, however, what is to stop Vegeta blitzing Shadow and obliterating him faster than he can say "Chaos"?

Hope to hear from ya soon.

@XImpossibruX said:

I love how people say Shadow can defeat 1/3 of a god.

Something called game mechanics + he never showed anything Omnipotent or Universal scale fighting in the game.

Literally fly around Solaris and fire beams while collecting rings....

Vegeta stomps.

I know right ¬_¬

Post by shakyric_lawson (64 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@GIRUGAMESH

It would appear as if my original reply didn't appear on this forum. I'll post it again tomorow, because I don't feeling like re-typing the entire thing now.

Post by shakyric_lawson (64 posts) See mini bio Level 6

GIRUGAMESH , nevermind, I forgot that I had copied this comment before anyway, LOL.

1. You could refer to game mechanics if you want. However, once again, they explained a fair bit about Solaris outside of gameplay all together, and even showed his defeat outside of gameplay.

Also, when I said game mechanics dictate the game, I mean that they dictate the gameplay. Not the story. Having said that, the proper assesment of the sonic cast powers comes from the cutscenes, which i'll get to in a moment.

Riddle me this; if Sonic is indeed legitimately capable of defeating a multiverse warping, omnipresent being, then why does he have difficulty facing the likes of Eggman and his robots?

Simple, and for two reasons. First, Shadow/Sonic doesn't have trouble with eggmans robots. Look at their first cutscenes in Sonic(06). They're not even a challenge for the higher characters (Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Knuckles....) Now, there are some robots that sonic fights that are created by controlled directly by eggman that can be, a little more challenging. However, if I can be honest, its pretty damn obvious that Sonic's playing with Eggman most of the time. This can be seen in the unleashed opening. And we know shadow, who has many chaos powers at his command in base, and has around the same power as sonic, could destroy eggmans higher robots with ease.

Also, keep in mind that their flunctuating power is due to the chaos emeralds. Or better yet, the transformations the chaos emeralds bring. The chaos emeralds have unlimited power, and grant much of this power to the user. Of course base sonic would be able to do nothing to a being such as time eater and Solaris. But super sonic is an entirely different story.

2. No, it hasn't been proven that Shadow can teleport things to the sun(which he doesn't actually need to do anyway) All we know for sure is that Shadow can teleport long distances with it. Either way its an assumption grounded entirely in their powers, but for the sake of this argument... I'll try to refrain from using it.

3. Well its not some deep, dark knowledge that will destroy the enitire universe. Its something we would expect him to know, just as we would expect him to know that there are other galaxies. No matter though.

4. Well actually, we know 100% weather or not shadow is using his full power. You see, unlike sonic, Shadow can unleash his full power by taking off his rings. So if he has rings on, not full power. If he has rings off, full power. Shadow literally gives us a visual aid by which we can observe his power output. In all of the sonic games Shadow has only unleashed full power once, and that was against mephiles.

You say that you use an average, more consistent version of the sonic cast powers. Just look at the cutscenes, and you'll see the crazy shit they do. I have a vid on this called sonic feats and powers.

I think that you're not including their super transformations. Their super forms consistently fights beings of incredible power(which just so happens to surpass DBZ villans by a land slide) such as:

Alf-Layla-wa-Alf-Layla, has universal... possibly multiversal power.

Solaris and time eater are MASSIVELY multiversal.... Solaris could very well be omniversal, considering that he devours everything. The weakest beings the super hedgehogs face are planetary, multiplanetary busters. Beings like dark gai and FinalHazard, who could easily destroy a planet.

So if you take all of this into account, The super hedgehogs are at the VERY LEAST, Multiplanetary, if you take their higher, multiversal feats into account, the sonic cast is multiversal.

As for me, personally, I always take their highest feats into account, because it displays their true power.

5. If shadow was desperate enough to teleport Vegeta a great distance, he'd take his rings off and do it. However, refering back to my earlier point, Shadow doesn't need teleport him. He could simply rip him apart using chaos control, or banish him using chaos rift. As for whats keeping him(Vegeta) from blitzing him, Super Shadow, if thats who we're talking about could simply teleport out the way(technically base shadow can do the same thing) with chaos snap. Also, super shadow is invincible, which means that a blitz would do nothing more than interupt an attack. And with his faster than light speeds, and teleportation.

Also, I don't think he actually has to say chaos control. Thats just like Krillin didn't have to say, "DESTRUCTO DISK" against many of his opponents, and yet he does. If this implies anything is means that they simply say it to make him look cool.

Well thats all for now.

Post by jeanroygrant (50 posts) See mini bio Level 6

Stalemate.

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