Thor VS Goku/Vegeta/Gohan

Topic started by CerberusPrime3k on May 6, 2012. Last post by FalconC2 2 years, 1 month ago.
Post by TheVectorPrime (269 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@ohgodwhy said:

I get what you're saying, maybe it was just an exaggeration of power to hype Broly up and it makes sense via powerscaling. You raise a very interesting point actually so I've decided to do a bit of maths.

Vegeta when he fought Goku had a power level of 18,000 and he was going to destroy the earth before Goku stopped him. Now it obviously doesn't take someone with such a high power level to destroy the Earth seeing as Master Roshi was able to destroy the moon with a power level of 200 and Piccolo was able to destroy the moon with ease with a power level of around about 3000. (Estimates take from the official Daizenshuu guides). If we take the minimum amount of power 200 (which is Roshi's) to destroy the moon and x49(How many times the Earth is bigger than the Moon) we get to 9,800.

So it would take a power level of around about 9,800, probably less seeing as Master Roshi didn't really strain everything into destroying the moon, to destroy the Earth. Once again though this is assuming everything is scaled.

Well when Goku went SSJ for the first time his power level was 150,000,000. Which means he could destroy 15306 Earths. The official Kazentai battle book states that with every SSJ transformation the Sayain's power is doubled. This I assume excludes all the training the Sayain does after achieving a transformation so would probably give a very baseline figure. Either way this means that when Goku went SSJ3 his power level would've been 600,000,000 as a minimum (Probably a lot higher than this). That would mean he could destroy 61,224 Earths.

LSSJ Broly on the other hand was stated to have a power level of 1,400,000,000 which means he could destroy 142,857 Earths.

Now for some size scales. Jupiter the largest planet in a solar system is around about 1317 times the volume of the Earth, so Jupiter would get crapped on by anyone above SS level. The Sun however is massive and it's volume is 1,300,000 that of the Earth.

Hopefully that little bit of quick maths can come in help to someone in the future and hopefully it was a somewhat interesting read lol.

Well you can't actually scale it like that. In order to destroy a celestial body DBZ style, you need to overcome it's gravitational bidding energy. For Earth that energy is 2.24 x 10^32 J. Gravitational bidding energy for Moon is 1762 times less than Earth's. So if we use Roshi as a base for moonbuster than it would mean somebody 1762 times more powerful than him is base(minimal ) for Earth busting. Roshi has a power levels of 139. That means that minimal Earth-buster needs power level of 244 918. So basilcy in tier with first form Frieza (power level os someone like Chilled). You see actuall scietific facts prove that Vegeta in Saiyan Saga wasn't a planet buster. And point is furthere proved since even if he was than it would be a suicidal move since he can't survive in space, and why would he kill himself ? Anyway to get to the minimal star buster you need someone 1 000 000 000 000 times more powerful. Someone with power level of 244 918 000 000 000 000. And even power levels for DBM (until they took them down) weren't that high. For example SSJ3 Veggeto with Final Dragon Flash had a power level of 5 000 000 000 000 000.

And even if we aply your calculations we won't get any star buster (with official power levels from V-Jump). For example SSJ Gogeta had 2 500 000 000 and he still wouldn't be star buster even with your calcs. About Vegetto:

Contrary to what everyone belives, Old Kai didn't stated that POTARA MAKES STRONGER FUSION. He only stated that it's BETTER THAN FUSION DANCE (i posted this in caps to be better for seeing). And he surely ment better because POTARA is permanent unlike dance which lasts for 30 minutes. Anyway in my book Vegetto = Gogeta in power :-). But Vegetto would win in fight since Gogeta is limited to 30 minutes.

About official power levels for Broly and Gogeta i say that they are to low they should be at minimum 10 times greater (even 20 times for Gogeta). Official power level for Cooler 470 000 000 seems little too high. Anyway i've gone of topic too much. In order to check about gravitational bidding energies you can check Wikipedia or net. I can't post links since Rules forbid it. And i broke that rule once today. Since i'm new i don't want to break it twice, mods might get angry.

Sorry for the late reply, flood protection prevented me to reply last night.

Post by UNIQUE69 (2 posts) See mini bio Level 3

didnt goku beat superman? if so why couldnt he take thor? if im wrong let me know.

Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@UNIQUE69: Goku never fought Superman. And if he did, he'd lose. Superman is strong enough to hold a black hole in his hands (Goku is nowhere near this physically strong) and fast enough to escape from inside two simultaneous black holes, that is a massive FTL speed feat. Not to mention he took a supernova explosion at blank point range, sustaining no visible wounds.

ND

Post by UNIQUE69 (2 posts) See mini bio Level 3

@Newdeath this is the pic i found. i dont know where it came from or if its fake or what?

:

Post by ohgodwhy (1,541 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@TheVectorPrime said:

@ohgodwhy said:

I get what you're saying, maybe it was just an exaggeration of power to hype Broly up and it makes sense via powerscaling. You raise a very interesting point actually so I've decided to do a bit of maths.

Vegeta when he fought Goku had a power level of 18,000 and he was going to destroy the earth before Goku stopped him. Now it obviously doesn't take someone with such a high power level to destroy the Earth seeing as Master Roshi was able to destroy the moon with a power level of 200 and Piccolo was able to destroy the moon with ease with a power level of around about 3000. (Estimates take from the official Daizenshuu guides). If we take the minimum amount of power 200 (which is Roshi's) to destroy the moon and x49(How many times the Earth is bigger than the Moon) we get to 9,800.

So it would take a power level of around about 9,800, probably less seeing as Master Roshi didn't really strain everything into destroying the moon, to destroy the Earth. Once again though this is assuming everything is scaled.

Well when Goku went SSJ for the first time his power level was 150,000,000. Which means he could destroy 15306 Earths. The official Kazentai battle book states that with every SSJ transformation the Sayain's power is doubled. This I assume excludes all the training the Sayain does after achieving a transformation so would probably give a very baseline figure. Either way this means that when Goku went SSJ3 his power level would've been 600,000,000 as a minimum (Probably a lot higher than this). That would mean he could destroy 61,224 Earths.

LSSJ Broly on the other hand was stated to have a power level of 1,400,000,000 which means he could destroy 142,857 Earths.

Now for some size scales. Jupiter the largest planet in a solar system is around about 1317 times the volume of the Earth, so Jupiter would get crapped on by anyone above SS level. The Sun however is massive and it's volume is 1,300,000 that of the Earth.

Hopefully that little bit of quick maths can come in help to someone in the future and hopefully it was a somewhat interesting read lol.

Well you can't actually scale it like that. In order to destroy a celestial body DBZ style, you need to overcome it's gravitational bidding energy. For Earth that energy is 2.24 x 10^32 J. Gravitational bidding energy for Moon is 1762 times less than Earth's. So if we use Roshi as a base for moonbuster than it would mean somebody 1762 times more powerful than him is base(minimal ) for Earth busting. Roshi has a power levels of 139. That means that minimal Earth-buster needs power level of 244 918. So basilcy in tier with first form Frieza (power level os someone like Chilled). You see actuall scietific facts prove that Vegeta in Saiyan Saga wasn't a planet buster. And point is furthere proved since even if he was than it would be a suicidal move since he can't survive in space, and why would he kill himself ? Anyway to get to the minimal star buster you need someone 1 000 000 000 000 times more powerful. Someone with power level of 244 918 000 000 000 000. And even power levels for DBM (until they took them down) weren't that high. For example SSJ3 Veggeto with Final Dragon Flash had a power level of 5 000 000 000 000 000.

And even if we aply your calculations we won't get any star buster (with official power levels from V-Jump). For example SSJ Gogeta had 2 500 000 000 and he still wouldn't be star buster even with your calcs. About Vegetto:

Contrary to what everyone belives, Old Kai didn't stated that POTARA MAKES STRONGER FUSION. He only stated that it's BETTER THAN FUSION DANCE (i posted this in caps to be better for seeing). And he surely ment better because POTARA is permanent unlike dance which lasts for 30 minutes. Anyway in my book Vegetto = Gogeta in power :-). But Vegetto would win in fight since Gogeta is limited to 30 minutes.

About official power levels for Broly and Gogeta i say that they are to low they should be at minimum 10 times greater (even 20 times for Gogeta). Official power level for Cooler 470 000 000 seems little too high. Anyway i've gone of topic too much. In order to check about gravitational bidding energies you can check Wikipedia or net. I can't post links since Rules forbid it. And i broke that rule once today. Since i'm new i don't want to break it twice, mods might get angry.

Sorry for the late reply, flood protection prevented me to reply last night.

What about when Frieza in his first form destroyed planet Vegeta with ease? The Daizenshuu book states that planet Vegeta had a gravity that was 10x that of Earth. It may not necessarily mean that that planet Vegeta was much larger than Earth, but certainly you would think it was at least 1.5 times Earth size and possibly more dense or something. Before anyone says King Kai's planet was tiny and had x10 gravity of Earth too, obviously that was an exception and was in a whole different dimension. Planet Vegeta even had two natural satellites which look tiny next to it further alluding to it's size. Anyway the point I'm making is that first form Frieza destroyed it with ease, which means he obviously wasn't even exerting a fraction of his maximum power level.

Also when Vegeta threatened to destroy the Earth I don't think he was joking around. He was losing and he'd never really lost at anything by that point, and to lose to a commoner drove him over the edge. Vegeta's always been a bit of a nutter and he's not really known for being someone who thinks about the consequences i.e. fighting Goku as Majin Vegeta when they knew it would free Buu. He also stated that he would go and find the dragonballs on Namek instead, further hinting that he really was about to destroy the Earth. Also given Goku's reaction he could tell the Earth really was in danger of being destroyed by Vegeta's Galick Gun.

I'm sure DBZ wouldn't use such scientific maths anyway when calculating how much power it would take to destroy a planet and would probably use a more simple formula like mine.

All the power levels after Trunks saga should be taken with a pinch of salt anyway because they're not Toriyama official so Cooler's "official" power level may not actually be as high as has been stated in the guide.

Post by CerberusPrime3k (299 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@UNIQUE69 said:

@Newdeath this is the pic i found. i dont know where it came from or if its fake or what?

:

...........................................................................................................................................

Post by ohgodwhy (1,541 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@CerberusPrime3k said:

@UNIQUE69 said:

@Newdeath this is the pic i found. i dont know where it came from or if its fake or what?

:

...........................................................................................................................................

Lol well there it is clear proof that Goku would destroy Superman.

Post by TheVectorPrime (269 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@ohgodwhy said:

What about when Frieza in his first form destroyed planet Vegeta with ease? The Daizenshuu book states that planet Vegeta had a gravity that was 10x that of Earth. It may not necessarily mean that that planet Vegeta was much larger than Earth, but certainly you would think it was at least 1.5 times Earth size and possibly more dense or something. Before anyone says King Kai's planet was tiny and had x10 gravity of Earth too, obviously that was an exception and was in a whole different dimension. Planet Vegeta even had two natural satellites which look tiny next to it further alluding to it's size. Anyway the point I'm making is that first form Frieza destroyed it with ease, which means he obviously wasn't even exerting a fraction of his maximum power level.

Also when Vegeta threatened to destroy the Earth I don't think he was joking around. He was losing and he'd never really lost at anything by that point, and to lose to a commoner drove him over the edge. Vegeta's always been a bit of a nutter and he's not really known for being someone who thinks about the consequences i.e. fighting Goku as Majin Vegeta when they knew it would free Buu. He also stated that he would go and find the dragonballs on Namek instead, further hinting that he really was about to destroy the Earth. Also given Goku's reaction he could tell the Earth really was in danger of being destroyed by Vegeta's Galick Gun.

I'm sure DBZ wouldn't use such scientific maths anyway when calculating how much power it would take to destroy a planet and would probably use a more simple formula like mine.

All the power levels after Trunks saga should be taken with a pinch of salt anyway because they're not Toriyama official so Cooler's "official" power level may not actually be as high as has been stated in the guide.

Well Frieza busting planet Vegeta perfectly suit with science. As i said by DBZ standards (science aplied) minimal power level for Earth busting is 244 918. Frieza was at 530 000 when busting Vegeta. And keep in mind that Frieza used his most powerfull attack the Death Ball. Collecting energy above one finger is just artiscti expression of his power, but Death Ball stays his most powerful attack. So fact is that he indeed used his most powerful attack in order to destroy planet Vegeta.

Also keep in mind that special of Bardock is anime filler. But as far as I know Vegeta did claim that he was going to destroy the Earth, that might be hyperbole or not it really doesn't matter. Point is that even by your formula only SSJ Vegetto and possibly Buuhan would come close to star busting.

Also about Buuhan. In anime it was stated that his most powerful attack(dimensional scream) will only rip a whole into dimensional wall like he did in ROSAT. And that will trigger the chain reaction which will result in another dimension/universe merging with main through that whole = being universal catastrophe. And such thing was only stated in Japanes dub of anime. I mention this since i've seen guys here claiming that as a sigh of universal busting, which totaly is not, since actuall attack is far from planet busting seen in anime. But can rip a whole in dimensional wall.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,541 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@TheVectorPrime: Frieza was also at 250,000 when fighting Nail and at another time he was at 20,000. 530,000 was his maximum power at first form so it's debatable whether or not he was even near 530,000 when he destroyed Planet Vegeta so he can change his power levels. Personally I don't think he was at full power when he destroyed Vegeta.

Yes I agree that they aren't star level busters though, both are calculations can agree to that.

You've gone even further off topic with that last post though lol. Although I don't think it really matters anymore seeing as it should be fairly obvious Thor wins this one.

Post by Hellos (2,482 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@niBBit said:

@ohgodwhy: No there is no official powerlevels for DBZ characters after Trunks Saga, ignore that horrid V-Jump scan that they call offical even tho its without Akira's influance, and if you think hard about those powerslevels they simple don't add up. Broly is not a Galaxy Buster read my treats i have about Broly to see what i mean. Broly will lose horribly againts an SSJ3 never mind Gogeta who can end an SSJ3's life in seconds like he did againts Janemba and Janemba>>>>>SSJ3 by far.

If this is Classic Thor i would say that he takes this considering Thor lifed up the Midgard Serpent and i heard he punched out planets...correct me if i'm wrong. I looked up this Godblast attack because i heard it was very powerfull, but (correct me if i'm wrong) isn't Godblast an simple (yet powerfull) energy attack from his own body...you know that the Z Figthers daily dodge, Goku againts Frieza at almost point blank range dodged attacks so fast neither Piccolo/Gohan/Krillin could see and he wasn't even a SSJ at the time hell he wasn't even using his Kaio-Ken and this is Goku SSJ3 so what makes it sure that Thor could hit with is Godblast? and also again correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't Godblast drain Thor? if thats the case Thor better make sure he hits it or he could tire out.

Current Beta Ray Bill can level planets why slamming Stardust through them:

And the Silver Surfer proceeded to take him down in about a page with a board to the back of the neck and 4-7 punches. Same guy tanks a planet buster(unlike the Z-fighters) point blank without so much as budging. That's after being plowed halfway through a planet. Thor took on the Surfer for multiple books, wounded to the point of actually showing pain and bleeding rainbows. He takes multiple board strikes, blasts and even being plummeted from Earth's orbit into Mars without so much as slowing down. He's even knocked Galactus on his rear, what now, twice in multiple books? Mjolnir itself is holding it's own against Hela with Twilight Sword.

The God Blast isn't like a Ki-Blast, its Thor channeling his divine energies and sending out blasts that have Ego and Galactus staggered. Thor doesn't even need to use it given he can just have his hammer plow a hole through his opponents chests with a toss.

Thor bleeding rainbows from his critical wound proceeds to knock Nul into orbit before he has any idea what just happened to him. God blasts are the least of the Z fighter's concerns, it's the magic hammer that absorbs energies and the brute strength of a peeved Thor that are going to kill them.

Post by Supreme Marvel (5,140 posts) See mini bio Level 12

If you're going to use science for Dragonball, you'd lose right away. Because if a person goes through 10 times Earth's gravity, their blood would pool in the lower part of the body starving the heart, brain and lungs which would result in DEATH!

Post by Hellos (2,482 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Supreme Marvel said:

If you're going to use science for Dragonball, you'd lose right away. Because if a person goes through 10 times Earth's gravity, their blood would pool in the lower part of the body starving the heart, brain and lungs which would result in DEATH!

Goku doesn't need blood. He was breathing and talking just fine when he had a hole in his chest from Piccolo's attack! Frieza can function with half a brain! And so on.

Post by Supreme Marvel (5,140 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@Hellos: I can't tell whether or not if you're trolling me. -_-

Post by Hellos (2,482 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Supreme Marvel said:

@Hellos: I can't tell whether or not if you're trolling me. -_-

Tr0llin Tr0llin - was more so poking fun at your observation, given I completely agree with the argument that trying to apply real world science to a universe that is almost entirely devoid of it is silly. They live with Dinosaurs, their cells apparently carry all their talent, skills, memories and you can go on.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,541 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@Supreme Marvel: Lol I think you kind've trolled yourself really. Science also tells us that people can't fly using their chi and can't destroy the Earth with giant energy beams.

Post by Supreme Marvel (5,140 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@ohgodwhy: I think you lack the understanding of the meaning of "trolling".

But my point is, when users above mentioned science to justify their meaning, it's not going to work with Dragon Ball. I call Dragon Ball Z fantasy not science.

Post by Supreme Marvel (5,140 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@Hellos said:

@Supreme Marvel said:

@Hellos: I can't tell whether or not if you're trolling me. -_-

Tr0llin Tr0llin - was more so poking fun at your observation, given I completely agree with the argument that trying to apply real world science to a universe that is almost entirely devoid of it is silly. They live with Dinosaurs, their cells apparently carry all their talent, skills, memories and you can go on.

You almost got me.

Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@UNIQUE69: It's fake. I can upload a picture of Superman pwning Goku too but that doesn't make it real, they're all fanmade.

ND

Post by TheVectorPrime (269 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@ohgodwhy said:

@TheVectorPrime: Frieza was also at 250,000 when fighting Nail and at another time he was at 20,000. 530,000 was his maximum power at first form so it's debatable whether or not he was even near 530,000 when he destroyed Planet Vegeta so he can change his power levels. Personally I don't think he was at full power when he destroyed Vegeta.

Yes I agree that they aren't star level busters though, both are calculations can agree to that.

You've gone even further off topic with that last post though lol. Although I don't think it really matters anymore seeing as it should be fairly obvious Thor wins this one.

No those are all wrong power level listings which were fan based. In manga, Japanese dub and Ocean dub Frieza stated that his power level was 530 000. And I've seen 220 000 - 250 000 figure on net (which were wrong since official cannon dismisses them), but i see 20 000 figure for the first time in your post. Trust me whatever are your sources they are wrong since official info contradicts them. Anyway it really doesn't matter since we both basicly agree, i just wanted to reply to power level numbers part.

Post by Hellos (2,482 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Considering power levels mean nothing to begin with, there isn't any point in arguing about it to begin with.

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