The Strawhats vs The Joint Shinobi army

Topic started by YouFinished on June 13, 2011. Last post by Dreamer 2 years, 11 months ago.
Post by Bellum (127 posts) See mini bio Level 8
@silversavage said:
@Bellum:  
2. what? Zoro is not a normal man he is a skilled swordsman  trained by a Warlord. Also he is stronger than most of the people in the in Naruto.
 
You are highly underestimating the effect of numbers. Then again, that's par for the course in the anime world.
 
Consider this: Guns superceded arrows on the battlefield, even though they were, at the time, far less dangerous than arrows on an individual level. Why? Because you could put a whole lot more of them on the field.
 
Skill and ability is important, but it isn't everything. I think it's naive to think that even most superhuman characters can take out entire armies, unless they are on the level of absurd destrctiveness similar to that of DBZ, where characters can toss around WMD level attacks like toys.
 
Also, Naruto ninja use traps and ambushes pretty regularly, and even for the flashy loudmouth ninja like Naruto , misdirection is the key element of their attack strategy.
Post by SilverSavage (271 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Bellum:  you are highly overestimating Ninjas. The only speed bump in these battles are the main ninjas the Strawhat team could esily one shot the cronies. plus Franky is considered a tank in this battle because of his steel coating and to add to that he uses gun and guns>Kunai so his gun pretty much a crowd control. Zoro could easily run through and  shot the ninjas same with luffy and sanji. the ninjas you think so highly of are not that strong compared to the Straw hat pirates. you should read One Piece before you start douting there abilities. Also out of the HST (Holy Shonen  Trinity [One Piece, Bleach, and Narto]) naruto is considered  the weakest.   
Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13
Ok, lets break this down:
Division 1: Not much of a problem here. People in this team such as Choza, tenten, and hiashi are the main powerhouses here and they are little more than fodder for the strawhats. Darui, who is the commander of this division, relies mostly on lighting realease, which Luffy can handle seeing as he is immune to lightinig. Call it a no limit fallacy if you want, but until its proven that Daruis electricity is more than 200,000,000 volts, then he's screwed here as Luffy could take him easily. The rest of the troops are fodder.
 
Division 2: Strawhats win this as well. The main shinobi in this team are hinata, neji, karui, and kurutsuchi. They can be dispatched quite easily as well. While neji and hinatas rotation could be a problem, it can be breached by a significant amount of force as shown in the past, the likes of which the strawhats shouldnt have any problems difhing out. The commander of this division, Kitsuchi, uses blunt ofrce attacks and would be useless against Luffy, who could easily one break through his defenses and one shot him. The remaining shinobi are fodder
 
Division 3: By far the toughest division. There are quite a few shinobi that can pose a threat. However, the strawhats stil take this after a tough battle, largly due to the monster trio. The divisions leader, kakashi, poses a threat to luffy this time round, however, luffy should still beat him. The rest of the shinobi are fodder like before
Post by Bellum (127 posts) See mini bio Level 8
@silversavage said:
@Bellum:  you are highly overestimating Ninjas. The only speed bump in these battles are the main ninjas the Strawhat team could esily one shot the cronies. plus Franky is considered a tank in this battle because of his steel coating and to add to that he uses gun and guns>Kunai so his gun pretty much a crowd control. Zoro could easily run through and  shot the ninjas same with luffy and sanji. the ninjas you think so highly of are not that strong compared to the Straw hat pirates. you should read One Piece before you start douting there abilities. Also out of the HST (Holy Shonen  Trinity [One Piece, Bleach, and Narto]) naruto is considered  the weakest.   
 
Eh. I got bored of Bleath quite quickly (don't like it at all), and OPs artwork grates on my nerves. I'll pass.
 
Anyway, you are missing the point (which isn't so much the ninja, though I think you are underestimating them), but the numbers. I reject the idea that the majority of the army are "fodder". Ninja are superior to real world soldiers (each and every one of them can be considered to have superhuman strength and speed), and unless, as I said, these guys have "nuclear level attacks", I wouldn't expect them to be able to take on a plain old human army of that size, whatever the era. Eight guys taking out 80,000 people is beyond ridiculous. Particularly people who use their brain as oppose to charging blindly at superior firepower. I don't expect crafty ninja to pull a WWI.
Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@Bellum said:


 I wouldn't expect them to be able to take on a plain old human army of that size, whatever the era. Eight guys taking out 80,000 people is beyond ridiculous.
But its not 80,000 people they are facing. they are only facing 3 divisions out of the entire army  and in a gauntlet style matchup at that
Post by Bellum (127 posts) See mini bio Level 8
Oh. Sorry. 48,000. Or 16,000 at a time. :/
Post by Kurohige (3,681 posts) See mini bio Level 19

I'm pretty sure straw hats takes this with prep, Nami causes thunferstomrs, ussop makes man-eating plants, Chopper tunrs into his ginat forma nd take out the lot of them, Franky fires missles and explosives, Robing snaps lots of necks or uses ginat hands to crush some, Luffy uses his jet gattling, Zoro is far too fast for most of them. I really think staw hats take this with mid effort. The fodder are nearly pointless as most one piece feats consist of fodder.
Post by Kurohige (3,681 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@Bellum said:
Oh. Sorry. 48,000. Or 16,000 at a time. :/

Despite my comment I think you have posted some of the best arguments here, so much so I may change my vote, good to see people debating very well here and not flamming.
Post by SilverSavage (271 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Bellum said:
@silversavage said:
@Bellum:  you are highly overestimating Ninjas. The only speed bump in these battles are the main ninjas the Strawhat team could esily one shot the cronies. plus Franky is considered a tank in this battle because of his steel coating and to add to that he uses gun and guns>Kunai so his gun pretty much a crowd control. Zoro could easily run through and  shot the ninjas same with luffy and sanji. the ninjas you think so highly of are not that strong compared to the Straw hat pirates. you should read One Piece before you start douting there abilities. Also out of the HST (Holy Shonen  Trinity [One Piece, Bleach, and Narto]) naruto is considered  the weakest.   
 Eh. I got bored of Bleath quite quickly (don't like it at all), and OPs artwork grates on my nerves. I'll pass.  Anyway, you are missing the point (which isn't so much the ninja, though I think you are underestimating them), but the numbers. I reject the idea that the majority of the army are "fodder". Ninja are superior to real world soldiers (each and every one of them can be considered to have superhuman strength and speed), and unless, as I said, these guys have "nuclear level attacks", I wouldn't expect them to be able to take on a plain old human army of that size, whatever the era. Eight guys taking out 80,000 people is beyond ridiculous. Particularly people who use their brain as oppose to charging blindly at superior firepower. I don't expect crafty ninja to pull a WWI.
I wouldn't say that naruto ninjas have "nuclear level attacks". Also Luffy could take out the fodders Haki or Gear 3rd. Plus no luffy doesn't get the side effect of shrinking after using gear 3rd. So he could take out large crowds of ninjas. the scan below also show some of Zoro, sanji, Chopper, Franky, and Robin also if you look at the scan closely it show luffy not shrinking after gear third. Plus Franky's rocket launcher can take out more than enough ninja for the Strawhat Pirates to win
 
Post by Bellum (127 posts) See mini bio Level 8
@silversavage said:
I wouldn't say that naruto ninjas have "nuclear level attacks".
I didn't say that they did. :/
 
Now that you mention it, though, a few do. Pein, most notably. Also, Deidara. I suspect Madara might, and Naruto has that potential (though I doubt he'd ever take advantage of it). None of those are in this battle, though, and I never suggested that they were.
 
From what you've shown, it seems like they have attacks a little higher than the level of, say, artillery. Very dangerous. But not a threat to a fully equipped army. There are other advantages the ninja can (and would) take advantage of, but I'll focus on numbers for now.
Post by SilverSavage (271 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Bellum said:
@silversavage said:
I wouldn't say that naruto ninjas have "nuclear level attacks".
I didn't say that they did. :/  Now that you mention it, though, a few do. Pein, most notably. Also, Deidara. I suspect Madara might, and Naruto has that potential (though I doubt he'd ever take advantage of it). None of those are in this battle, though, and I never suggested that they were.  From what you've shown, it seems like they have attacks a little higher than the level of, say, artillery. Very dangerous. But not a threat to a fully equipped army. There are other advantages the ninja can (and would) take advantage of, but I'll focus on numbers for now.
Oh my bad I misread your post. But what is the point focusing on number if you can't do damage. Also if you read the rules only the Pirates get prep time so even if the army is equipped they may not have the certain tools to defeat the pirates.
Post by YouFinished (1,027 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@silversavage said:

 Also Luffy could take out the fodders Haki 

True, Luffy could take out a number of the fodders with King's Haki. Forgot about that.
Post by Bellum (127 posts) See mini bio Level 8
I'm not sure how a days worth of prep time is useful in this situation? :/
 
Also, I assume that if an army is assembled, they will have the tools for doing their army thang. As to not being able to do damage, they can. As I've said, you have to be super human to even graduate as a ninja; they have plenty of firepower. Perhaps not as much as this group on average (I'm still not clear on their full abilities, except that some are "peak humans" and others are "super human"), but that doesn't matter... Because the ninja have overwhelming numbers.
 
EDIT:
That is to say, unless the OP guys are straight up immune to a wide variety of attacks, this isn't even a contest. The ninja win.
Post by SilverSavage (271 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Bellum said:

I'm not sure how a days worth of prep time is useful in this situation? :/   Also, I assume that if an army is assembled, they will have the tools for doing their army thang. As to not being able to do damage, they can. As I've said, you have to be super human to even graduate as a ninja; they have plenty of firepower. Perhaps not as much as this group on average (I'm still not clear on their full abilities, except that some are "peak humans" and others are "super human"), but that doesn't matter... Because the ninja have overwhelming numbers.  EDIT: That is to say, unless the OP guys are straight up immune to a wide variety of attacks, this isn't even a contest. The ninja win.

It seems like you underestimating OP team. Naruto may be superhuman but so are the OP team but  OP team is on 100 tons level of power. Zoro, luffy and sanji are on hypersonic speed levels while the army is only supersonic. Also the army doesn't have the durability to survive one shot from the OP team, from what I've seen on naruto the army been getting owned up by seven swords man so what make you think they even compare to the OP team.
Post by Hellos (2,482 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@Haofan123 said:
Strawhats take this. The very fact that kishimoto himself said that missles could devastate the narutoverse makes franky a huge threat let alone the rest of the strawhats. Luffy alone could take down most of the people shown in this match

People read that the wrong way, tremendously so. 
Their entire universe runs off the concept of the shinobi being their army. Missiles and the like would negate the entire point of said Shinobi bar the high level ones that make missles look like a joke. 
 
Plus OP universe doesn't exactly look like it would be too much the same if they had anything like the current weaponry, considering sinking the ships would result in a lot of said characters drowning.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,732 posts) See mini bio Level 20
This is ridiculous, forgetting the thousands and thousands of regular shinobi the "named fighters"-i.e Kakashi, Gai, Lee, Neji, Darui, ect. would outnumber and absolutely wreck Nami, Robin, Sanji, Franky and Chopper.  
You wanna talk about durability and getting one shotted, none of those straw hat member can tank the best shots of Kakashi or Gai.  
Zorro and Luffy are the only real threats, and even they likely would be overwhelmed and killed by the multitude of "named fighters" and upon adding in the thousands and thousands of regular chunin level fodder (many of which likely possess genjutsu or water attacks) those two get absolutely stomped.  
Its pretty unreasonable to suggest otherwise, I mean show me the feats of any of the SHC beating thousands of opponents at once-Luffy needed help from the all one piece top tiers in the marine ford war to prevent being overwhelmed by far less than thousands. 
Post by acarter (717 posts) See mini bio Level 10
everyone is forgetting 1 important female pirate ROBIN 
she can take out 100's of ninjas at a time 
unless ur physically strong like raikage or rubber like luffy ur not getting out of her death submissions 
anyways strawhats own each division rest in between the destruction of each division not just the one listed here its a fact
Post by Bellum (127 posts) See mini bio Level 8
@silversavage said:
@Bellum said:

I'm not sure how a days worth of prep time is useful in this situation? :/   Also, I assume that if an army is assembled, they will have the tools for doing their army thang. As to not being able to do damage, they can. As I've said, you have to be super human to even graduate as a ninja; they have plenty of firepower. Perhaps not as much as this group on average (I'm still not clear on their full abilities, except that some are "peak humans" and others are "super human"), but that doesn't matter... Because the ninja have overwhelming numbers.  EDIT: That is to say, unless the OP guys are straight up immune to a wide variety of attacks, this isn't even a contest. The ninja win.

It seems like you underestimating OP team. Naruto may be superhuman but so are the OP team but  OP team is on 100 tons level of power. Zoro, luffy and sanji are on hypersonic speed levels while the army is only supersonic. Also the army doesn't have the durability to survive one shot from the OP team, from what I've seen on naruto the army been getting owned up by seven swords man so what make you think they even compare to the OP team.
 
I'm not underestimating them, I'm telling you the difference in power doesn't matter in this situation. 
 
Also, there were only a few casualties from the swordsmen before they were sealed, so I'm not sure what you were talking about. :/ The difficulty with the zombies is they can't be killed by brute force, but they handled that fairly well. The majority of the casualties hasn't been from the named elite, but from the endless Zetsus.
Post by SilverSavage (271 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Bellum:  Actually it never showed them sealing off the other swordsman it showed the sealing  two bodies which are expected to be Zabuza and Haku. 
 you need to show feats on how they can take out the OP team because just rambling on about numbers won't work win here. 
  
Post by Bellum (127 posts) See mini bio Level 8
@silversavage said:
@Bellum:  Actually it never showed them sealing off the other swordsman it showed the sealing  two bodies which are expected to be Zabuza and Haku. 
 you need to show feats on how they can take out the OP team because just rambling on about numbers won't work win here. 
  
  
Ehm, I'm not sure what your point is?
 
Anyway, I've not seen any evidence to suggest the OP guys have anything that can hold off 16,000 soldiers.
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