The Espada vs The Akatsuki and the Ten Tails with Madara

Topic started by nishi99 on Nov. 17, 2012. Last post by PrinceAragorn1 1 year, 9 months ago.
Post by 5th (1,246 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Again my post is ignored
Post by MisterShin (2,125 posts) See mini bio Level 14

@5th:

Zommari Rureaux & Baraggan Louisenbairn are too much Hax, they can immobilise opponent and wither them away.

Zommari paralyses them both with eyes and then its easy pickings tbh.

Or Zommari can turn Madara & Juubi attacks against each other.

They are puppets before Zommari.

Destructive Power isnt everything!

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,180 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@MisterShin said:

Barragan Solos

He will age everything, Chakra, Magic, Whatever.

Read my post.

@Whitelock said:

To be fair, I only see the 3 Uchiha and the ten tails being an issue for the Espada. The rest of the Akatsuki would pretty much be slaughtered. Also, would the 8th Espada's powers pose a threat to the ten tails? the clones he can create have the same powers as the original, so theoretically he could have multiple ten tails under his control.

"Theoretically" he could have made exact clones of Aizen and taken control of Hueco Mundo, funny how that never happened...

Point is, if he hasn't cloned/replicated anything even close to the Juubi then any argument to say he could is moot. And you seem to be forgetting about the prep that Akatsuki has. In a straight fight I agree that most of the Akatsuki would be killed pretty easily, but if Deidara has, say dumped a C3/C4 bomb from the get-go, then it could do some significant damage. Hidan, Kakuzu and Zetsu would be virtually worthless in any event, but as you say, the Uchiha are the real threat here (as well as the 10 tails of course).

@solesamurai said:

Don't know why people call this a stomp, Ulquiorra and Nnoitra can take most of akatsuki by themselves, with the exception of Nagato and Tobi and maybe Konan, Is it the presence of Madara and the 10 tails that makes people say stomp in their favor? Because even Madara can't handle Barragan 1 on 1 IMO, and thats leaves the rest of the espada to take on the 10 tails who has no feats currently, and is weakened. It's very possible for the Espada to take this since most of the akastuki are kinda useless.

Sure they could.

But yes, edo Madara and the Juubi are the main players here. The current Juubi is incomplete, so I would assume that the original Juubi is the one being used here. In which case, it has been described as a creature capable of tearing lands apart and drinking whole oceans. Even the current, much weaker Juubi has been shown to overpower Kurama and the Hachibi (both of the latter being mountain busters). Nobody in Bleach could take on a fully powered Juubi as far as I can see.

And again, I say that it's silly to think the rest of the Akatsuki are useless here, namely Deidara, who with prep could dump a town/small city destroying blast on Hueco Mundo.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Whitelock:

8 Espada has to have some limit or is just not strong enough.

I can see Sasori defeating him in one on one anyway.

@MisterShin: Thats sounds like no limits. I don't think he can age gravity for example. As for this, well he failed to age Soi Fon's bankai completely.

The main reasons why most of Akatsuki are "useless" are because of the Espada 1 - 4 and those like GRimmjow. Nnoitora while stronger is actually handeled easier due to his fighting style.

@solesamurai:

In theory Madara and Jubi should be able to solo with impunity. Notice I said in theory. The only ones in Akatsuki who pose major threats would be the top tier ones and maybe Kisame simple because of draining and absorbing abilitites. Deidara's c4 will always be a threat.

Jubi already used a bijuu beam take took out multiple bijuu balls. Notice the argument is coming down to Baraggan vs Ten Tails.

Let's face it most of Akatsuki are around the low tier espada level or lower at least thats how I see it. In theory incomplete Jubi should be able to solo partly depending on the stupdity of Baraggan's.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,180 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@MisterShin said:

@5th:

Zommari Rureaux & Baraggan Louisenbairn are too much Hax, they can immobilise opponent and wither them away.

Zommari paralyses them both with eyes and then its easy pickings tbh.

Or Zommari can turn Madara & Juubi attacks against each other.

They are puppets before Zommari.

Destructive Power isnt everything!

Zommari is one of the espada who would probably be taken out at the start by a C4 garuda/C3 bomb. He isn't a threat here. Even if he doesn't get taken out immediately, he has never demonstrated his power against anyone on the scale of the Juubi or even Madara. Obito could simply go intangible to avoid it and Itachi could susano his way out of it.

Post by 5th (1,246 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@MisterShin: In Bleach its been explained that attacks like that such as Soi Fong's instant kill attack can be voided by higher power levels (Reiatsu), the ten tails is on a whole different level. Even if the Espada were to combine their power it would amount to nothing against a being like the Ten Tails because it's that strong

Ten Tails solos, The Sage of Six Path wouldn't have sealed it on a celestial body if it weren't that powerful.

Bring a reason why Team Espada would win against the Ten Tails that clearly is a continent buster? (Again, the moon mass consist of 7.34767309 × 10 kilograms)

Post by Whitelock (28 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@GIRUGAMESH: Ok, I see your point, I made a mistake and assumed he could clone anyone regardless of their power, I will stick to facts from now on. Just wanted to point out that it wouldn't be a stomp, the higher ranked Espada like Stark or Ulquiorra are bound to kill a few. But I agree, Deidara's bombs would cause problems for the Espada.

Overall I agree that the Akatsuki would win but I think only the the Uchiha and ten tails (and maybe Pain and Deidara) would be standing at the end of it. And frankly this whole battle seems a bit biased in favour of the Akatsuki, I mean with time edo Madara or the ten tails could solo :/

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,180 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@5th said:

@MisterShin: In Bleach its been explained that attacks like that such as Soi Fong's instant kill attack can be voided by higher power levels (Reiatsu), the ten tails is on a whole different level. Even if the Espada were to combine their power it would amount to nothing against a being like the Ten Tails because it's that strong

Ten Tails solos, The Sage of Six Path wouldn't have sealed it on a celestial body if it weren't that powerful.

Bring a reason why Team Espada would win against the Ten Tails that clearly is a continent buster? (Again, the moon mass consist of 7.34767309 × 10 kilograms)

This.

@Whitelock said:

@GIRUGAMESH: Ok, I see your point, I made a mistake and assumed he could clone anyone regardless of their power, I will stick to facts from now on. Just wanted to point out that it wouldn't be a stomp, the higher ranked Espada like Stark or Ulquiorra are bound to kill a few. But I agree, Deidara's bombs would cause problems for the Espada.

Overall I agree that the Akatsuki would win but I think only the the Uchiha and ten tails (and maybe Pain and Deidara) would be standing at the end of it. And frankly this whole battle seems a bit biased in favour of the Akatsuki, I mean with time edo Madara or the ten tails could solo :/

I agree with that part, the Espada are definitely capable of taking down some of the Akatsuki members. And yes, the battle is overkill because the Juubi is probably capable of beating the espada on its own, the others aren't really necessary.

Post by nishi99 (1,690 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Whitelock: I could give The Espada Aizen Gin and Tousen if you think that would help.

Post by phantomrant (1,342 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

:)@phantomrant said:

Espada is out-numbered and out-matched. This is beyond just a mis-match. It's an annihilation of all in Heuco Mundo in favor of the Akatsuki.

Well, it is not. they have amazing speed and destructive feats. They are not going down that easy.

Akatsuki has two fighters that dwarf all of the Espada's destructive power combined in addition to considerable hax. They're not avoiding a Bijuudama from the Juubi nor are they surviving it.

No, I think the Espada are going to get roflstomped.

With the Juubi on the front lines, no Espada will even touch any Akatsuki member.

Post by PrinceAragorn1 (157 posts) See mini bio Level 4

@phantomrant said:

Akatsuki has two fighters that dwarf all of the Espada's destructive power combined in addition to considerable hax. They're not avoiding a Bijuudama from the Juubi nor are they surviving it.

No, I think the Espada are going to get roflstomped.

With the Juubi on the front lines, no Espada will even touch any Akatsuki member.

So, basically, Only problem is Jubi. If he is put away somewhere, rest are literally nothing, except edo madara. That, too because the technique makes him immortal. None of the akatsuki have ever shown after-image speed, and ichigo did that with ease against byakuya. stark,cifer>hollow ichigo>bankai ichigo. If one of the espada was taken down by itachi's tsukuyomi, they should take him down cautiously enough.. Other than that, six tails beat pain pretty easy.. I doubt cifer couldn't blitz him without a problem, and so on..

If we take away edo and 10t, its stomp in favour of espada. If 10t is in, it's stomp in favour of it.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,180 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@phantomrant said:

Akatsuki has two fighters that dwarf all of the Espada's destructive power combined in addition to considerable hax. They're not avoiding a Bijuudama from the Juubi nor are they surviving it.

No, I think the Espada are going to get roflstomped.

With the Juubi on the front lines, no Espada will even touch any Akatsuki member.

So, basically, Only problem is Jubi. If he is put away somewhere, rest are literally nothing, except edo madara. That, too because the technique makes him immortal. None of the akatsuki have ever shown after-image speed, and ichigo did that with ease against byakuya. stark,cifer>hollow ichigo>bankai ichigo. If one of the espada was taken down by itachi's tsukuyomi, they should take him down cautiously enough.. Other than that, six tails beat pain pretty easy.. I doubt cifer couldn't blitz him without a problem, and so on..

If we take away edo and 10t, its stomp in favour of espada. If 10t is in, it's stomp in favour of it.

Pretty much, but it wouldn't be as one-sided as you say without the Juubi. Akatsuki would still take down some of the members and some of them (namely Obito IMO) could be trouble for the higher espada.

@nishi99 said:

@Whitelock: I could give The Espada Aizen Gin and Tousen if you think that would help.

That would make it a lot more interesting.

Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@GIRUGAMESH said:

@MisterShin said:

Barragan Solos

He will age everything, Chakra, Magic, Whatever.

Read my post.

@Whitelock said:

To be fair, I only see the 3 Uchiha and the ten tails being an issue for the Espada. The rest of the Akatsuki would pretty much be slaughtered. Also, would the 8th Espada's powers pose a threat to the ten tails? the clones he can create have the same powers as the original, so theoretically he could have multiple ten tails under his control.

"Theoretically" he could have made exact clones of Aizen and taken control of Hueco Mundo, funny how that never happened...

Point is, if he hasn't cloned/replicated anything even close to the Juubi then any argument to say he could is moot. And you seem to be forgetting about the prep that Akatsuki has. In a straight fight I agree that most of the Akatsuki would be killed pretty easily, but if Deidara has, say dumped a C3/C4 bomb from the get-go, then it could do some significant damage. Hidan, Kakuzu and Zetsu would be virtually worthless in any event, but as you say, the Uchiha are the real threat here (as well as the 10 tails of course).

@solesamurai said:

Don't know why people call this a stomp, Ulquiorra and Nnoitra can take most of akatsuki by themselves, with the exception of Nagato and Tobi and maybe Konan, Is it the presence of Madara and the 10 tails that makes people say stomp in their favor? Because even Madara can't handle Barragan 1 on 1 IMO, and thats leaves the rest of the espada to take on the 10 tails who has no feats currently, and is weakened. It's very possible for the Espada to take this since most of the akastuki are kinda useless.

Sure they could.

But yes, edo Madara and the Juubi are the main players here. The current Juubi is incomplete, so I would assume that the original Juubi is the one being used here. In which case, it has been described as a creature capable of tearing lands apart and drinking whole oceans. Even the current, much weaker Juubi has been shown to overpower Kurama and the Hachibi (both of the latter being mountain busters). Nobody in Bleach could take on a fully powered Juubi as far as I can see.

And again, I say that it's silly to think the rest of the Akatsuki are useless here, namely Deidara, who with prep could dump a town/small city destroying blast on Hueco Mundo.

I said most not all, I know about Deidaras threat but the others IMO are dead weight. I have no doubt in my mind the Juubi could possibly solo, I remain reserved and argue for Bleach nonetheless since it has no feats. Deidara couldn't take anyone above Grimmjow IMO, the power jump from Zommari to Grimmjow is ridiculous. Same with Nnoitra to Ulquiorra. It's not silly to say over 50% of the akatsuki are dead weight. Since it's mostly true, they'd die in mere minutes without the Juubi there.

Post by taichokage (13,266 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Okay, as anticipated and partly shown now, clearly the 10 tails is a problem. He is probably greater than the rest of team akatsuki put together. Plus Madara makes it far worse. But there are a few issues. Raw power isn't one of them it's mostly hax. Baraggan is as always a big problem. Alone he has made the Espada win a lot of debates that otherwise was questionable. I can accept Zommari's doujutsu to be questionable vs the 10 tails given its raw power and gigantic size, but Baraggan's respira is a different matter. Also you have to account for a number of advantages that the Espada have even as a team, for instance the fact that they are all fliers and speedsters on one level or another as well as quasi tanks thanks to hierro. Team akatsuki has most of that too but largely on an individual basis, not the whole team.
Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@solesamurai said:

@GIRUGAMESH said:

I said most not all, I know about Deidaras threat but the others IMO are dead weight. I have no doubt in my mind the Juubi could possibly solo, I remain reserved and argue for Bleach nonetheless since it has no feats. Deidara couldn't take anyone above Grimmjow IMO, the power jump from Zommari to Grimmjow is ridiculous. Same with Nnoitra to Ulquiorra. It's not silly to say over 50% of the akatsuki are dead weight. Since it's mostly true, they'd die in mere minutes without the Juubi there.

Deidara himself is a dead weight unless he has prep and the chance to utilize it, so you aren't wrong on him being plausible dead weight.

Then again you know Espada 7 to 10 are similar situation. The power jump to Grimmjow is ridiculous

Thats why people mention Nagato, Itachi, Tobi because they are likely the ones to survive in the end. I mention Kisame and Deidara because his abilities tend to do better in multiversal ones compared to like Hidan, Kakuzu, Zetsu, or even Sasori sometimes.

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@phantomrant said:

So, basically, Only problem is Jubi. If he is put away somewhere, rest are literally nothing, except edo madara. That, too because the technique makes him immortal. None of the akatsuki have ever shown after-image speed, and ichigo did that with ease against byakuya. stark,cifer>hollow ichigo>bankai ichigo. If one of the espada was taken down by itachi's tsukuyomi, they should take him down cautiously enough.. Other than that, six tails beat pain pretty easy.. I doubt cifer couldn't blitz him without a problem, and so on..

If we take away edo and 10t, its stomp in favour of espada. If 10t is in, it's stomp in favour of it.

I understand speed argument but its sort of flawed if you put it that way.

After-image speed is usually relative to the opponent's perception and opponent's perception varies.

Its the same logic people use and think Wesker will suddenly speed blitz anyone such as Magneto (MVC3 example) simply because he showed after image speed against Chris. But Chris is a terrible example since he has barely superhuman reactions by fictional standards.

As for this thread, as I said earlier the Bleach side is reduced to lol Baraggan vs Jubi and Edo Madara. I will leave this at that and decide for yourselves although I believe Jubi is likely to solo.

Post by PrinceAragorn1 (157 posts) See mini bio Level 4

@321zigzag1 said:

@solesamurai said:

@GIRUGAMESH said:

I said most not all, I know about Deidaras threat but the others IMO are dead weight. I have no doubt in my mind the Juubi could possibly solo, I remain reserved and argue for Bleach nonetheless since it has no feats. Deidara couldn't take anyone above Grimmjow IMO, the power jump from Zommari to Grimmjow is ridiculous. Same with Nnoitra to Ulquiorra. It's not silly to say over 50% of the akatsuki are dead weight. Since it's mostly true, they'd die in mere minutes without the Juubi there.

Deidara himself is a dead weight unless he has prep and the chance to utilize it, so you aren't wrong on him being plausible dead weight.

Then again you know Espada 7 to 10 are similar situation. The power jump to Grimmjow is ridiculous

Thats why people mention Nagato, Itachi, Tobi because they are likely the ones to survive in the end. I mention Kisame and Deidara because his abilities tend to do better in multiversal ones compared to like Hidan, Kakuzu, Zetsu, or even Sasori sometimes.

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@phantomrant said:

So, basically, Only problem is Jubi. If he is put away somewhere, rest are literally nothing, except edo madara. That, too because the technique makes him immortal. None of the akatsuki have ever shown after-image speed, and ichigo did that with ease against byakuya. stark,cifer>hollow ichigo>bankai ichigo. If one of the espada was taken down by itachi's tsukuyomi, they should take him down cautiously enough.. Other than that, six tails beat pain pretty easy.. I doubt cifer couldn't blitz him without a problem, and so on..

If we take away edo and 10t, its stomp in favour of espada. If 10t is in, it's stomp in favour of it.

I understand speed argument but its sort of flawed if you put it that way.

After-image speed is usually relative to the opponent's perception and opponent's perception varies.

Its the same logic people use and think Wesker will suddenly speed blitz anyone such as Magneto (MVC3 example) simply because he showed after image speed against Chris. But Chris is a terrible example since he has barely superhuman reactions by fictional standards.

As for this thread, as I said earlier the Bleach side is reduced to lol Baraggan vs Jubi and Edo Madara. I will leave this at that and decide for yourselves although I believe Jubi is likely to solo.

Actually, he showed it against Byakuya, who has more than human speeds..

One more thing by the way, If Barragan sits on Jubi's head like Naruto did on Gamabunta's, what will he do??

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@321zigzag1 said:

Actually, he showed it against Byakuya, who has more than human speeds..

One more thing by the way, If Barragan sits on Jubi's head like Naruto did on Gamabunta's, what will he do??

Well of course, Byakuya is likely faster than anyone in Akatsuki in movement so you were right on that, I was just cautioning against solely using after image speed because sometimes its used more of a manga trope as in "lol he's fast" and then the author forgets about it. Whether or not some of the akatsuki can react to him is whats more important though.

Depends on which version. When Baraggan is in his released state he never seems to move. In fact it's like he lost ability to move at quick speeds. In his regular base he blitzed Soifon.

If he is in his released state I suppose in theory on top of his head Jubi should age away but thats up to debate.

Post by PrinceAragorn1 (157 posts) See mini bio Level 4

@321zigzag1 said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@321zigzag1 said:

Actually, he showed it against Byakuya, who has more than human speeds..

One more thing by the way, If Barragan sits on Jubi's head like Naruto did on Gamabunta's, what will he do??

Well of course, Byakuya is likely faster than anyone in Akatsuki in movement so you were right on that, I was just cautioning against solely using after image speed because sometimes its used more of a manga trope as in "lol he's fast" and then the author forgets about it. Whether or not some of the akatsuki can react to him is whats more important though.

Depends on which version. When Baraggan is in his released state he never seems to move. In fact it's like he lost ability to move at quick speeds. In his regular base he blitzed Soifon.

If he is in his released state I suppose in theory on top of his head Jubi should age away but thats up to debate.

Alright, I will be careful using that..

What I meant was: If there is only barragan and 10 tails, and he manages to get on top of his head to cling to it, can Juubi do anything? I think we will have to wait for the next chapter..

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,180 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@321zigzag1 said:

@solesamurai said:

@GIRUGAMESH said:

I said most not all, I know about Deidaras threat but the others IMO are dead weight. I have no doubt in my mind the Juubi could possibly solo, I remain reserved and argue for Bleach nonetheless since it has no feats. Deidara couldn't take anyone above Grimmjow IMO, the power jump from Zommari to Grimmjow is ridiculous. Same with Nnoitra to Ulquiorra. It's not silly to say over 50% of the akatsuki are dead weight. Since it's mostly true, they'd die in mere minutes without the Juubi there.

Deidara himself is a dead weight unless he has prep and the chance to utilize it, so you aren't wrong on him being plausible dead weight.

Then again you know Espada 7 to 10 are similar situation. The power jump to Grimmjow is ridiculous

Thats why people mention Nagato, Itachi, Tobi because they are likely the ones to survive in the end. I mention Kisame and Deidara because his abilities tend to do better in multiversal ones compared to like Hidan, Kakuzu, Zetsu, or even Sasori sometimes.

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@phantomrant said:

So, basically, Only problem is Jubi. If he is put away somewhere, rest are literally nothing, except edo madara. That, too because the technique makes him immortal. None of the akatsuki have ever shown after-image speed, and ichigo did that with ease against byakuya. stark,cifer>hollow ichigo>bankai ichigo. If one of the espada was taken down by itachi's tsukuyomi, they should take him down cautiously enough.. Other than that, six tails beat pain pretty easy.. I doubt cifer couldn't blitz him without a problem, and so on..

If we take away edo and 10t, its stomp in favour of espada. If 10t is in, it's stomp in favour of it.

I understand speed argument but its sort of flawed if you put it that way.

After-image speed is usually relative to the opponent's perception and opponent's perception varies.

Its the same logic people use and think Wesker will suddenly speed blitz anyone such as Magneto (MVC3 example) simply because he showed after image speed against Chris. But Chris is a terrible example since he has barely superhuman reactions by fictional standards.

As for this thread, as I said earlier the Bleach side is reduced to lol Baraggan vs Jubi and Edo Madara. I will leave this at that and decide for yourselves although I believe Jubi is likely to solo.

Agree with most of the things here, but Deidara certainly isn't dead weight. Check the OP, the Akatsuki have plenty of prep, giving Deidara whatever opportunity he needs.

@PrinceAragorn1: Because it's as simple as that, get on top of the Juubi's head and you win ¬_¬

Because there's no way the Juubi won't have fired on sight at him or anything.

Post by PrinceAragorn1 (157 posts) See mini bio Level 4

@GIRUGAMESH said:

@PrinceAragorn1: Because it's as simple as that, get on top of the Juubi's head and you win ¬_¬

Because there's no way the Juubi won't have fired on sight at him or anything.

:)

Actually, it was once used in godzilla vs hulk thread. It was awesome to see people arguing how godzilla can crush the hulk but no one answered how he would get him off his head lol

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