The Doctor (Doctor Who) vs Frederica Bernkastel

Topic started by deathmonger on Jan. 14, 2012. Last post by GIRUGAMESH 3 years, 2 months ago.
Post by deathmonger (1,036 posts) See mini bio Level 9


Doctor has 1 hour prep

Frederica has no knowledge of him

She cannot destroy TARDIS

Encounter takes place in a empty Universe

Post by deathmonger (1,036 posts) See mini bio Level 9


Post by Asune (1,191 posts) See mini bio Level 12

No one huh?, guess I'll have to do it.

Ok, how far can doc reach with 1 hour?

Post by Yusuke52 (456 posts) See mini bio Level 16
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With the TARDIS he can manipulate time and space with extreme ease so he can get from one side of the universe to the other 500 years ago if he wanted to.

Without it he is around peak human speed with super human reactions.

The problem is the prep and TARDIS considering that both are broken if they are given to him. If he has access to everything he needs then he could recreate the Reality Bomb or something of equal strength and that would be the end of the fight, but the problem is he has no way himself to survive the detonation of it.

He can amp up the TARDIS defence systems to maximum to survive Universe level attacks or just below them, and in the earlier showings of Doctor Who I believe it had a system that predicted if it was going to get attacked in the future so it could dematerialize itself to avoid said attack. He can also destroy the TARDIS for a similar outcome of the Reality Bomb, but like I said he has no way to survive it. Im sure he could create something capable of locking her in a time lock much like he did with multiple races and planets including the entire Time Lord race, which would effectively BFR her from the match.

It is truly a hard match up for me to decide, but if he is capable of doing the above with the TARDIS and prep I would give it to The Doctor, if he cant then Bernkastel takes it.

Post by Asune (1,191 posts) See mini bio Level 12

1) Bernkastel survived an universe buster inside her stomach

2) With magic of miracles she can change the outcome of the situation

Post by Yusuke52 (456 posts) See mini bio Level 16
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Both fair points, And I would give the win to her in a heartbeat, but it is because he has prep that im having to change things up abit.

The entire Dalek race (who are effectively multi-verse busters with the right technology) who are many billions strong can destroy everything, everywhere, everywhen are afraid of this one man and what he is capable of doing, and the reality bomb would kill her if it was detonated considering that The Beast(or Satan if you will) who is a god-like entity with extremely High Tier Reality Warping powers and has been there since before the begining of the universe would have been unable to stop it from destroying him.

He also managed to defeat not only the entire Dalek race (save 1), but also all the time lords and multiple other races who were taking part in the time war at the same time by sealing them inside a time lock which neither could escape from even by using their best technology, and which can only be opened from the outside by the use of a white point star, no exceptions. And the only reason he done it was because the Time Lords were going to use the Ultimate Sancition, which would end all creation and life and reality and they would exist only as non-coporeal beings with infinite power and knowledge.

He has also beaten The Eternals multiple times and also going as far as to turn a small group of the into mortals, they are another race of powerful beings whos powers are the following but not limited to reality warping, time manipulation, probability manipulation, spatial manipulatio,n dimensional teleportation, transmutation, high end immortality, the ability to destroy living and non-living matter, dream manipulation, illusion creation, dimensional manipulation, resurrection and can also banish an entire race to the Void (Which is more or less the darkness between the universes in which nothing exists, even time).

What im saying is the Doctor has fought many enemies in his time some even more powerful than Bernkastel, and won. In the Doctor Who universe I would be surprised if there are no devices that can negate her powers turning her into a mortal herself.

All im trying to say is that the DW Universe has a device to stop prety much everything possible (Even Reality), but is 1 hour enough time for him to utilize and build such a device to enable him to defeat her? If no then she wins with ease, if yes then he wins with ease.

It is a difficult fight to decide on a winner in my eyes based on what both are capable of.

Post by MohsinMan99 (1,777 posts) See mini bio Level 21

Bernkastel exceeds time/space going from what I know. Making her pretty much immune to stuff that depends on those factors on a universal scale. Any ways the Doctor can beat her?

Post by Yusuke52 (456 posts) See mini bio Level 16
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The Eternals are similar in the fact that they trancend space and time and therefore are not affected by it, but The Doctor still managed to turn them into mortals. He also put his own race and the Dalek Empire into a time lock from which both can never escape. (Both races were notorious for time and spatial manipulation on universial scales (Possiblely multiversel for the Time Lords and Daleks, cosidering that Daleks and Cybermen passed through The Void unscathed to wreck havock in another universe)

The TARDIS travels in the time vortex which is what allows the time and space manipulation via the TARDIS. The TARDIS in theory alters time and space on a universel scale in order to enable it to time travel, But that was not the device that was used to instigate the Time Lock the Doctor used in the Time War.

He used a modified De-Mat gun which, before he modified it had the ability to wipe out any entity from time and space forever (Meaning that they never existed in the first place). The modified version allowed him to wipe out multiple entities numbered into the billions (Including entire planets for that matter) from time and space and place them into a seperate part of time he created himself from which they cannot escape from the inside, Hence they are forever locked in time. And 2 entire races, The Time Lords and the Daleks were unable to escape from it even with their powers over time travel and dimensional travel.

In a straight up fight with no prep The Doctor has no chance against her that much I agree upon, On the other hand I also believe that with prep there are very few people who can stand against him. All im thinking about is if 1 hour would be enough for him to create devices capable of winning the fight, He has shown the ability to create a bomb powerful enough to wipe out all life on the planet in under an hour from nothing but rubbish.

Post by Asune (1,191 posts) See mini bio Level 12

There are still two issues

1) Magic of Miracles, as long as there exists a probability different from zero (ex: 0,00000000000000000000001%), she can reset the situation to a favorable one

2) Non corporeal, well Bern is non corporeal

Post by Yusuke52 (456 posts) See mini bio Level 16
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Those 2 issues were both outlined with the entities The Eternals, who are a race of transcendental beings who are also non coporeal (Granted that they prefer the human form) and extremely powerful probabability warpers, dimensional warpers, spatial warpers, reality warpers etc. etc. which put them well above the likes of Bernkastel, and the doctor turned a group of them into mortals removing all powers they had previous despite their un-godly abilitys.

The TARDIS would not allow her to alter anything to do with probability etc. in its vacinity due to its defences, It would see that as an attack against it and then alter time and space around itself in order to avoid the attack.

And besides a single shot from the De-Mat gun and it would be over, she would be wiped from existence to the point at which she was never there to begin with. Let's not forget she has no previous knowledge of The Doctor. so she has no idea what to expect or what he is able to achieve in 1 hour.

The DWU is easily one of the most powerful universes in fiction, not to mention it is arguabley the most powerful Science Fiction verse in existence given that everyone who is anyone can destroy universes and end reality.

The reality bomb that I mentioned before would be another effective way of ending her (but it would also cost him his own life) considering that it ends EVERYTHING (That includes probability, space, time etc.) Once that bomb is detonated it would be the end for both of them and the universe/reality they are fighting in.

Given what I have seen The Doctor do I believe he can win this, But only due to the prep he was given. My only qualm is if 1 hour would be enough to give him victory. Its either going to be Bernkastel who stomps or The Doctor I doubt there would be a middle ground.

Don't get me wrong, I like Bernkastel alot as a character so im not going against her in spite, I just think that the doctor has a good chance to win with the prep he was given.

If anything I would give it a draw (due to the reality bomb ending both their lives) but if he can do all that within 1 hour then I would say the Doctor could win, if not then she wins with ease and I will concede my argument and accept the outcome.

Post by Asune (1,191 posts) See mini bio Level 12

I see, last one, speed

Will he be fast enough to pull X weapon or device he created, considering that Bernkastel is massively faster than the light

Post by Yusuke52 (456 posts) See mini bio Level 16
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With the TARDIS he can outclass her in speed since he can move from one side of the universe to the other 100 years in the past if he wants to (easily more but there would be no need). as far as true speed, the TARDIS is capable of vastly FTL speeds should it need to (But it very rarely needs to due to its ability to use the Time Vortex). As for the weapons, he can remotely use almost all his weapons should the need arise from the TARDIS, which also has a gravational tractor beam that is capable of pulling a rather large spaceship from just before the event horizion of a black hole and pulling planets such as the Earth across thousands of light years in seconds and neutron stars at FTL speeds through space (and time I believe but dont hold me to that).

He could also absorb the Heart of the TARDIS for a win but I will not try and argue that method since very little was shown in regards to what powers you gain, but going by what he said it could turn a time lord into a god capable of doing anything he wanted. The best feats it has shown is when Rose absorbed a small ammout of the Heart and had the ability to bring back the dead (but she was unable to control the power and brought him back in a fixed point in time making him immortal, and I believe he lived for 5 billion years or so before his eventual death, but by the end he was nothing more than a mutated head in a very large jar called The Face of Boe)

Post by Asune (1,191 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Wait, to move from one side of the universe to other is similar to Bern speed, when she fought lambda they created and destroyed universes between them, and they crossed the whole universes to attack the other

Post by Yusuke52 (456 posts) See mini bio Level 16
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im not sure what you mean. what I ment is that if he started at one side of the universe in the year 2000 AD he could be at the other side in 700 BC due to the time and spatial warping of the TARDIS. Essentialy speed is a non-factor for the TARDIS since it can go to any point in space and time via the Time Vortex, meaning he can arrive before he has even left.

When its not using the Time Vortex it is considerably FTL given that it traveled 1000+ light years in a few seconds with extra baggage (The Entire Earth was brought along for the ride) which could mean it can go even faster than that.

Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
1. Time Lock on Timelords+Dalek Empire: wasn't explained how the Doctor achieved this, only that he did it at the end of the Time War, and we've seen exceptions where they could escape from the Time Lock. One such instance was using The Master as a signal beacon to home back in on the universe and reappear on Earth.
2. TARDIS has limits. For one, the Doctor cannot cross his own timeline. IE; cannot return to a place/time he has already been or cross with one of his past/future incarnations. The TARDIS is also still a machine and cannot break the laws of the universe.
3. The Doctor does not have all these resources you claim. He cannot recreate the Reality Bomb which, for one, was built by the Dalek's using a massive system that transported and linked together 17 planets (or something of that number) to be used as an amplifier t create the Reality Bomb, which could only destroy all Matter in the universe.
4. The Doctor cannot change Fixed Points in Time. It's a universal law not even the TARDIS with the Time Vortex can change. As stated earlier; TARDIS has limits.
5. The Doctor does not have peak human speeds and the TARDIS does not give him the ability to attack instantaneously. For the Doctor to build and use a device himself, he would need to open/exit the TARDIS to use it, which places him in the normal flow of time, which makes him fair game to anyone.
6. The Doctor can be easily killed. Killing him again before regeneration is complete means he's dead permanently.
Post by Yusuke52 (456 posts) See mini bio Level 16
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1. The Doctor achieved this in his 8 Incarnation where he modified a De-Mat gun into a device he called "The Moment" in which he sealed away all the Time War. The only way they could escape is with outside help which is what I said before. The Master was a means to an end for Rassilon he was only able so send a white point star through the Time Lock which took a good portion of his power (He is the second most powerful time lord behind Omega himself) and transport it towards the Signal that was imprinted in The Master. They entire Time Lord race was unable to escape by any other means, which way my point in the first place.

2. Umm Yes he can... He choses not to, there is a difference. You do know that The Doctor cannot meet himself since he is in one continunity (River Song storyline would be a good example for that, considering they keep meeting in the wrong order)) and yes it can break the laws of the universe (See point 4)

3. It is an empty universe I would like to think he would know where to find them. And no to create the Reality Bomb you need to have an advanced working knowledge of Dalek Technology which the doctor does, and if you had seen the show the only reason the 27 planets were taken from different points in time was in order to break through the time rift in the medusa cascade to enable the bomb to seep through into all conjoining universes and destroy all reality in them.

"Across the entire universe, never stopping, never faltering, never fading. People and planets and stars will become dust. And the dust will become atoms and the atoms will become... nothing. And the wavelength will continue, breaking through the rift at the heart of the Medusa Cascade into every dimension, every parallel, every single corner of creation. This is my ultimate victory, Doctor! The destruction of reality itself! " - Davros

Quoated from the man who created the bomb. There is less than nothing left after they detonate that device, considering it can also destroy the void which IS nothingness.

4. It was never made clear if he could change fixed points in time or if he just chose not to as to avoid the thought of becoming a god in his own right. The TARDIS is only limited by the person using it (once again if you had seen the show that The Master turns it into a paradox device to enable the Toclafane to kill their forefathers without harming them in anyway. Breaking a universal law which according to you cannot be done.

5. It is a non-factor if his speed if peak human or not is irrelevent he wont need it. And yes, he is able to remotely activate devices from inside his TARDIS or through the use of his sonic screwdriver, also if you had watched the show you would know that he can extend the time dilation field outside of the TARDIS to enable himself to walk out and still be in a localized time field (Shown twice during the 11th Doctor's incarnation and another showing earlier on back in the old series cant remember off the top of my head)

6. Yes that much is true but it wont do her any good if she cannot get inside the TARDIS let alone destroy it for that matter.

Omega broke all the laws which you have stated cannot be done, he created life ended it destroyed universes and build new ones. If we are using Universal Laws in this match-up then maybe they should both be below light-speed since nothing can travel faster than light, and THAT is a universal law. You are getting mixed up between what the Time Lords think is right and what can actually be done. The Time Lords are heavily against changing what they consider fixed points in time. Because they can never be sure of the outcome of that desision, does that mean it cannot be done? No not at all. Oh and I never said the TARDIS gave him the ability to attack instantaneously why would you make that up.

No offence but I have seen you debate with other people in other threads and I do not care much for this kind of debate with you, So just to avoid having a debate with you I am going to say that Bernkastel wins. I myself still believe that the doctor can pull this off with that prep time but that is off the record now so just mark me down from bernkastel instead and let that be the end of it.

Post by Endlesscreator (11 posts) See mini bio Level 5

Bernkastel can pretty much bring herself back to life as long as she wants. It takes conceptual damage to kill her for good.

Besides that It is said that she lives in a world where concepts like fate and possibility can be visualized. She can give birth to all kinds of miracles with her immense power but, in compensation for that, her heart ends up breaking a bit. She can time travel, and travel to other universes. That is why she has the rank of a "voyager" witch. She can explore the sea of kakeras, which means she can pretty much learn everything about the Doctor, his weakness, etc. Going with Bernkastel.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,270 posts) See mini bio Level 10

I give this to Bernkastel; whilst I think that he could come up with something to take her out, I very much doubt that he could do it in the space of an hour.

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