Super Saiyan 3 Goku vs Ultimate/Mystic Gohan

Topic started by Newdeath on April 8, 2009. Last post by danzi97 1 year, 2 months ago.
Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@soldier said:
"@rein said:
"Why is this even a battle? Toriyama said himself that the strongest un-fused character in the series was Mystic Gohan. "
Being the strongest does not in anyway mean that you will win the fight, especially if the power difference is so little and somebody has the techniques to destroy you in picoseconds without PIS. (warp kamehameha)  It is known that goku was very impressed with gohan's power but his fighting ability was nowhere near goku and vegeta's standard. Kid Buu was not even as strong as goku but he was so close that he suprised vegeta and goku. his durability was key, (regeneration). Gohan is nowhere near kid buu's durability, as he has no regeneration, goku 's problem in dbz is that in the show he was not able to master ssj3, and so it is assumed that after the ten years of training goku was able to improve. However there is no concrete evidence as goku's improvement is unknown.  Goku has enough power to wipeout gohan, but I think that if morals apply this can go either way. "
Post by JThree47693 (1,081 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@soldier said:
" @taichokage said:

"I'm with Goku. Gohan didn't train for 7 years and never actually achieved anything beyond ssj2. Mystic Gohan was obviously stronger than a ssj2 and at around ssj3 (give or take a little.) Either way it's close. Now if Gohan could turn ssj1 or 2 while in mystic form, then undoubtedly he is stronger but we don't know that he can. Also being stronger doesn't mean he would beat Goku. Gohan's cockyness led him to an early defeat by Buu and worse, he was asorbed. Goku never made that mistake. Also Gohan never fought Kid buu, only Super Buu who at the time hadn't absorbed Gohan or Piccolo which were his greatest assets. "


I am not even sure that he is stronger at all. 
 
Goku was said to be number 1 in the manga, by Vegeta. 
 
     That is as official as it gets.  "
That looks like a scan from mangafox.
Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@JThree47693 said:
" @soldier said:
" @taichokage said:

"I'm with Goku. Gohan didn't train for 7 years and never actually achieved anything beyond ssj2. Mystic Gohan was obviously stronger than a ssj2 and at around ssj3 (give or take a little.) Either way it's close. Now if Gohan could turn ssj1 or 2 while in mystic form, then undoubtedly he is stronger but we don't know that he can. Also being stronger doesn't mean he would beat Goku. Gohan's cockyness led him to an early defeat by Buu and worse, he was asorbed. Goku never made that mistake. Also Gohan never fought Kid buu, only Super Buu who at the time hadn't absorbed Gohan or Piccolo which were his greatest assets. "


I am not even sure that he is stronger at all. 
 
Goku was said to be number 1 in the manga, by Vegeta. 
 
     That is as official as it gets.  "
That looks like a scan from mangafox. "

No, I did not get it from mangafox. There are some websites with virtually all of db scans, from dragonball - dbz. They have alot of manga, that one can read for free. 
It also ties in well with the anime so it is double canon (lol). 
But it is official
Post by JJOR64 (2,074 posts) See mini bio Level 16
This thread is full of lulz.
Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@JJOR64 said:

"This thread is full of lulz. "


What is your view?
Post by DeviousRobert (26 posts) See mini bio Level 4
I'd say Super Saiyan 3 Goku is the more powerful of the two, but he very obviously couldn't hold the transformation long enough to beat Gohan.
Post by taichokage (12,588 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@DeviousRobert: Indeed and as i said even if gohan is stronger the stronger person doesn't always win. Gohan lost badly both times he fought Buu whereas goku either fled, fended off buu or in the end actually defeated buu with a little assistance. I think Gohan would lose via cockiness.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,723 posts) See mini bio Level 20
at first it's hinted at to be gohan but i believe by the end of the fight with buu the additional zenkai goku gets while using genkidarma would make him stronger, and then by the end of z (when they fight uub at budokai) goku most likely stomps.
Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7
I propose that goku is stronger than mystic gohan, and I will debate this by firstly countering the arguments made by thoose who are sure that goku wins.  
                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                         The most common argument is that goku was scared of superbuu:
 
 
The image on the right says "He'll kill us if we go out like this!! Wait! He's still stronger than us!"        Now if any of you remember, goku and vegeta were the size of fleas, their attacks were useless on the worms in buu, and they had no way of knowing how big they would be when they got out. Hence why if they went out "like this", they would have been dead meat. He is still stronger than them beause they are so small. 
Therefore goku had every reason to be scared. 
 
 
 
 
 
The second most common reason is that they assume that gohan was fighting alright against buutenks, but in actual fact it is similar to trunks vs cell were cell could have killed trunks easily at any point in time. They appeared even but cell demolished trunks after that. 
 
to be continued....
Post by MisterShin (2,122 posts) See mini bio Level 14
END OF MANGA = GOKU SSJ3 > MYSTIC GOHAN
 
BUU SAGA = MYSTIC GOHAN > GOKU SSJ3
 
Its that simple :-)
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,723 posts) See mini bio Level 20
All depends which version. 
 
Buu Saga living ssj3 Goku<<<Mystic Gohan (because of draining energy) 
 
Full power ssj3 Goku (as in when he dead, like vs Janemba, or when he better controls it, like vs hildegarn)>>>Mystic Gohan 
 
At full power Goku could beat Buu in an instant 
 

And its more than likely end Z Base form Goku (and for sure GT Goku) is equal to ssj3 Buu saga Goku.
Post by rein (5,465 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@MisterShin said:
" END OF MANGA = GOKU SSJ3 > MYSTIC GOHAN  BUU SAGA = MYSTIC GOHAN > GOKU SSJ3  Its that simple :-) "
^^^^ This.
Post by mysticboy (144 posts) See mini bio Level 5
Gohan
Post by Abomination (32 posts) See mini bio Level 3
@soldier said:
" I propose that goku is stronger than mystic gohan, and I will debate this by firstly countering the arguments made by thoose who are sure that goku wins.  
                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                         The most common argument is that goku was scared of superbuu:
The image on the right says "He'll kill us if we go out like this!! Wait! He's still stronger than us!"        Now if any of you remember, goku and vegeta were the size of fleas, their attacks were useless on the worms in buu, and they had no way of knowing how big they would be when they got out. Hence why if they went out "like this", they would have been dead meat. He is still stronger than them beause they are so small. Therefore goku had every reason to be scared.      The second most common reason is that they assume that gohan was fighting alright against buutenks, but in actual fact it is similar to trunks vs cell were cell could have killed trunks easily at any point in time. They appeared even but cell demolished trunks after that.  to be continued.... "
 
I think the most common mistake people tend to forget is when goku and vegeta was inside buu and goku made that comment, buu was still in mystic gohans absorbed form.
Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7
...continuation
Goku and gohan were on the same level, because when picollo sensed mystic gohan, he thought that it was goku. 
 
Another claim by those who insist that goku is weaker than gohan, is that goku who said he was unsure about beating fat buu, was certain that a fused gotenks would beat buu, even though he never knew that they could turn ssj3. But the thing is, it is far more likely that goku was overestimating the fusion. He claimed buu would stand no chance but that was false. He was also determined to make sure that the next generation would save the universe. In fact when he sees them turn ssj3 he says that they reached a point that he couldn't reach until his whole life was over. (episode 245), now in context, goku is dead, and has already reached ssj3, but he did not obtain that form in his life. Goku did not say they were more powerful, but was in awe at how quickly they were able to obtain a level of power that took him so long to reach, it was just like gohan's surprise when he found out that goten was a supersaiyan. 
 
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,723 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@soldier: Goku was also being modest to piccolo saying "maybe" he could have defeated Fat Buu, later he outright say he could have killed Fat Buu if he wanted to, but has you say he thought it wasn't the right thing to do since he no longer existed in the living world and wanted the next generation to take over. 
Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@hitsusatsu11 said:

"All depends which version. 
 
Buu Saga living ssj3 Goku<<<Mystic Gohan (because of draining energy) 
 
Full power ssj3 Goku (as in when he dead, like vs Janemba, or when he better controls it, like vs hildegarn)>>>Mystic Gohan 
 
At full power Goku could beat Buu in an instant 
 

 
 
And its more than likely end Z Base form Goku (and for sure GT Goku) is equal to ssj3 Buu saga Goku. "


 

I actually believe that they would be roughly equal, as mystic gohan was just under twice as strong as superbuu, I say this because he became twice as strong after absorbing ssj3 gotenks who is said to be at maximum equal to superbuu. In fact buu's fusion works by addition of powerlevel and so that is why vegito was far superior to buuhan. Kid Buu is then stated to be twice as strong as before. Remember that the context is that Vegeta detatched fat buu in hopes that buu would be weaker. However, they state that his power kept rising, meaning that kid buu was at least twice as strong as superbuu. ssj3 goku would then fight evenly with kid buu for a long period of time, and this is taking into account the amount of times buu was obliterated and then regenerated back. Gohan does not have the infinite energy of buu, nor the skill to learn peoples moves after seeing it once. Therefore goku should win by skill. 

The way I see it is that whilst Gohan has the advantage of not having to transform goku has far more years of skill to ensure the win. 
 
P.S. - Kid buu is actually even more powerful than 2 * superbuu as he was revealed to just be toying with ssj3 goku. There are some of you guys who may think that it is silly of me to think that kidbuu is at least equal to gotenksbuu, but just think about every single saga, after every fight goku gets far stronger. Goku fought buutenks and then buuhan, and then superbuu all except the first in ssj1/ssj2. Therefore goku's power was sure to increase because after the fusion goku and Vegeta were fine, whereas before they were deadmeat. Therefore when goku's baseform increases by "y", his ssj3 form increases by something like "200y"

Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,723 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@soldier said:


 

I actually believe that they would be roughly equal, as mystic gohan was just under twice as strong as superbuu, I say this because he became twice as strong after absorbing ssj3 gotenks who is said to be at maximum equal to superbuu. In fact buu's fusion works by addition of powerlevel and so that is why vegito was far superior to buuhan. Kid Buu is then stated to be twice as strong as before. 

Wow, it is never stated how Buu's absorptions increase his power. The thing about Kid Buu being twice as strong as he was before was a dub line. 
 

, his ssj3 form increases by something like "200y"

"
SSJ 3 is a 400 times base form increase, as stated in Daizenshuu 7
Post by rein (5,465 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@hitsusatsu11: what are these "Daizenshuu" you always refer to?
Post by MrDirector786 (4,497 posts) See mini bio Level 17
Mystic Gohan was the most powerful NON-FUSED DBZ character. I'll go with him.
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