Super Saiyan 3 Goku vs Ultimate/Mystic Gohan

Topic started by Newdeath on April 8, 2009. Last post by danzi97 1 year, 2 months ago.
Post by Sonata (35,106 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@Supercool99 said:
" @Sonata said:
" @Supercool99 said:
" @Sonata said:
"Goku said himself that hat if they fight Super Buu they were going to die, the same Buu that Gohan was beating the tar out of. Simple math here Gohan>Super Buu>SSJ3 Goku, if that is not true then why did Goku want to fused with Vegeta?? "
I already explaied that goku had just fought super buu, and was tired, and so he would not last 2 minutes as a ssj3 because of the strain on his body. Goku was not scared of super buu when the fusion ran out, and so they cancel each other out. "
Of Course he wasnt scared of Super Buu when defused Gohan was right there. He did not fight Super Buu when he was freeing the others from the pods, they even had enough time to read Fat Buu's mind to see how they got to his point. "
Gohan was down and out, he stated that buu was not a threat, he was obviously the only one who could fight buu. Super buu did not want to fight goku, and so he did what he did best, absorb a being. Gohan was beaten up and tattered. "
Gohan was fresh just been healed by Dende, and also due to his saiyan nature he may have gotten alittle stronger after that. Buu was afraid of being Double teamed by Gohan and Goku, using the Piccolo's wisdom he was able to absorb Gohan when he wasnt looking to make sure that did not happen.
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1
@Sonata said:
" @Supercool99 said:
" @Sonata said:
" @Supercool99 said:
" @Sonata said:
"Goku said himself that hat if they fight Super Buu they were going to die, the same Buu that Gohan was beating the tar out of. Simple math here Gohan>Super Buu>SSJ3 Goku, if that is not true then why did Goku want to fused with Vegeta?? "
I already explaied that goku had just fought super buu, and was tired, and so he would not last 2 minutes as a ssj3 because of the strain on his body. Goku was not scared of super buu when the fusion ran out, and so they cancel each other out. "
Of Course he wasnt scared of Super Buu when defused Gohan was right there. He did not fight Super Buu when he was freeing the others from the pods, they even had enough time to read Fat Buu's mind to see how they got to his point. "
Gohan was down and out, he stated that buu was not a threat, he was obviously the only one who could fight buu. Super buu did not want to fight goku, and so he did what he did best, absorb a being. Gohan was beaten up and tattered. "
Gohan was fresh just been healed by Dende, and also due to his saiyan nature he may have gotten alittle stronger after that. Buu was afraid of being Double teamed by Gohan and Goku, using the Piccolo's wisdom he was able to absorb Gohan when he wasnt looking to make sure that did not happen. "

You seem to forget goku's pride, goku was not scared of buu. Gohan was not healed, goku was scared to fight Pikkon but he did and he won. 
goku not being as powerful as gohan, I accept. 
Whilst the anime clearly states kid buu is stronger than all other buu's not including absorbing z-fighters. Nothing says super buu is stronger than kid buu, we clearly see that super buu was more evil than fat buu, and so his power increased, and kid buu is buu at his most evil, his purest form with full power. Kid buu has no energy limit, pure evil. The monster everybody feared. Goku could have destroyed all forms of buu, gohan likewise, fat, super, and kid alike. But both are too cocky, and don't finish the job, they both paid the price. 
I accept gohan is more powerful, but I am suggesting that after his many fights, goku gained on gohan, and so there is not too great a difference, I do not mind if gohan is better than goku, if it was the gohan of cell saga with mystic gohan's powers I would not be debating this, fighting skills I feel is what is costing gohan alot, just like against Dabura. 
Post by Sonata (35,106 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
Kid Buu is not the strongest Buu the episode you are talking about is filler never happen in the Manga.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19

Listen Supercool skill was not a factor in any of the feats you stated. Majin Vegeta held his own against Fat Buu because Fat Buu is playful and was not actually trying to immediately kill him and rather thought it was a game, when he became serious he dominated Vegeta terribly. Goku and Vegeta defeated Super Buu inside his body through planning not skill so don't reach. Gohan used his power against Anrdoid 18 and 17 and if you recall there was an instance where Gohan actually overpowered a blast by the Androids using his own implying that he is just as powerful as the individual Androids however that does not apply and your feat of Gohan is moot. Kid Buu clearly had an advantage not simply because of his regeneration but also power, Goku had run out of power countless times before Kid Buu regenerated from colossal attacks, Gohan is much more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, Goku's power will rapidly deplete, I doesn't matter how much more powerful Frieza was than Goku the feat still stands skill does not matter in DBZ that is why Goku trains to increase his power. Goku admitted himself that he would have been killed by Super Buu if he had fought him however Gohan effortlessly manhandled him, Goku defeated Pikkon because of skill yes but using Pikkon is plain idiotic because the power gap he and Goku had was one of the smallest in all of DBZ and Pikkon didn't defeat Frieza and Cell because of superior skill please it was a cheap shot, both Cell and Frieza were distracted and occupied by Goku and Pikkon was using his speed not skill he knocked Frieza and Cell away with a surprising attack that nobody expected because it was a cheap shot his enemies were not aware that he would attack so it wasn't skill. Your arguments don't prove why Goku wins it just proves that you simply favor Goku for no good reasons. Goku's skill over Gohan is not tha great and it will not close the large gab of power he has with Gohan and his energy will rapidly decrease. Look at it this way. 100% power Frieza held his own very well against SSJ Goku on Namek however when his power began to deplete and he lost but before it happened he actually gained the upper hand in the battle and if your logic is correc then Goku should have won because he had the superior skill however when 100% power Frieza was at full power he had gained the uppper hand during their battle until his power began to deplete however in this battle not only does Goku's power deplete he is even weaker than Gohan. Gohan wins, it has also been decided by the majority of the users here.
Post by JThree47693 (1,081 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@Supercool99 said:
"@Sonata said:
" @Supercool99 said:
" @Sonata said:
" @Supercool99 said:
" @Sonata said:
"Goku said himself that hat if they fight Super Buu they were going to die, the same Buu that Gohan was beating the tar out of. Simple math here Gohan>Super Buu>SSJ3 Goku, if that is not true then why did Goku want to fused with Vegeta?? "
I already explaied that goku had just fought super buu, and was tired, and so he would not last 2 minutes as a ssj3 because of the strain on his body. Goku was not scared of super buu when the fusion ran out, and so they cancel each other out. "
Of Course he wasnt scared of Super Buu when defused Gohan was right there. He did not fight Super Buu when he was freeing the others from the pods, they even had enough time to read Fat Buu's mind to see how they got to his point. "
Gohan was down and out, he stated that buu was not a threat, he was obviously the only one who could fight buu. Super buu did not want to fight goku, and so he did what he did best, absorb a being. Gohan was beaten up and tattered. "
Gohan was fresh just been healed by Dende, and also due to his saiyan nature he may have gotten alittle stronger after that. Buu was afraid of being Double teamed by Gohan and Goku, using the Piccolo's wisdom he was able to absorb Gohan when he wasnt looking to make sure that did not happen. "
You seem to forget goku's pride, goku was not scared of buu. Gohan was not healed, goku was scared to fight Pikkon but he did and he won. goku not being as powerful as gohan, I accept. Whilst the anime clearly states kid buu is stronger than all other buu's not including absorbing z-fighters. Nothing says super buu is stronger than kid buu, we clearly see that super buu was more evil than fat buu, and so his power increased, and kid buu is buu at his most evil, his purest form with full power. Kid buu has no energy limit, pure evil. The monster everybody feared. Goku could have destroyed all forms of buu, gohan likewise, fat, super, and kid alike. But both are too cocky, and don't finish the job, they both paid the price. I accept gohan is more powerful, but I am suggesting that after his many fights, goku gained on gohan, and so there is not too great a difference, I do not mind if gohan is better than goku, if it was the gohan of cell saga with mystic gohan's powers I would not be debating this, fighting skills I feel is what is costing gohan alot, just like against Dabura.  "

Nothing says that Super Buu is the strongest? So I guess the fact that Goku said that he could beat Kid Buu at Full Powered SSJ3. I guess the fact that he and Vegeta had to fuse to fight Buuhan means nothing. Stop wanking Goku, he loses.
Post by JThree47693 (1,081 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@Supercool99 said:
"@JThree47693 said:
"@Supercool99 said:
"@Newdeath said:
"He is very much above Goku's power Supercool. You seem to favor Goku in virtually every thread he is in even in matches he clearly loses. Goku would lose for two main reasons: 1. His Super Saiyan 3 form depends too much on the usage and consumption of ki that he will not be able to sustain the form for long 2. He is weaker than Gohan. Take in to account that when Goku freed Gohan, Goten and the rest from Super Buu he stated that if he fought Super Buu he would definetly be killed however Gohan easily dominated Super Buu with no effort. Goku's power would deplete as the fight continues and Gohan's power would remain, Goku's fighting skill means nothing. Frieza was more powerful than Goku but Goku was the superior fighter however he was still thrashed around. Gohan wins his power is greater than Goku's and Goku's energy would eventually deplete rendering him in a completely weakened state. Like Kid Buu, Kid Buu was as powerful as Super Saiyan 3 Goku and fought him to a standstill until Goku reverted back to his normal form and was too weak to fight and needed Vegeta to buy him time or else he would have been killed however in this battle the odds are different: Gohan is not equal to Goku but more powerful and there is nobody to buy Goku time when he is weakened so that he may regain his energy. Gohan wins. "


which makes no sense seeing as kid buu was stated as the strongest buu, goku and vegeta defeat superbuu as ssj 1 in buu's body, disgraceful. Plus he was okay against gotenks absorbed buu. 
Frieza was like 100 times more powerful than goku, gohan was not. Goku was stronger than gotenks who could have killed super buu. Kid buu has limitless energy and no regenerating problems. 
Goku also was not scared of buu at all when the fusion ran out. 
vegeta was not more powerful than fat buu but his skill made it seem like that. 
Goku was not as powerful as pikkon but his skill got him the victory. 
Pikkon was not as powerful as cell but his skill and techniques ensured the victory. 
Gohan was not stronger than android 18 and 17, but his skill helped him 
I could go on, skill is important whether you like it or not. 
Goku knows how to fight those who are stronger than him, gohan was not way stronger than him. Gohan has the advantage of not having to use as much energy. 
Goku has had alot of experience with his ssj3 and so unless we are sticking to majin buu saga he would not have such a problem.

Kid buu only survived because he could regenerate, goku was beating him up to begin with but wasted too much energy, Goku could have destroyed buu, both goku and vegeta said it.

Goku won't need time because experience would play a key role. Goku wins, it is not clearly anything, I don't know what you are trying to say about me, but I don't like it. I don't support blindly. Goku increased his powers alot in ssj3, he fought fat buu, died (time ran out), came back, fought super buu gotenks absorbed, then he fought buuhan, and then he fought super buu inside buu, and then kid buu, his power level would have sky-rocketed and so there is not that big a gap.

You mentioned that goku said he would lose, well you also mentioned that ssj3 requires alot of energy, energy which he did not have after his battle inside buu, he was very tired. Goku also said that kid buu was twice as strong as before, comparing him to super buu.

"
No, Super Buu(or Buuhan as som like to call him) was the strongest Buu. Kid Buu was just the most dangerous. Like I said, Gohan rips Goku a new one. You seem to favor Goku in fights he cant win. "
Buuhan was obviosly strongest, than gotenks buu, than kid buu, than way below is superbuu. I seem to favor goku in fights he can win, it is you guys acting as if I am saying goku ssj3 beats nova shenron. Goku can beat Mystic gohan as a ssj3. "

No, you favor Goku in fights he loses. Gohan would beat SSJ3 Goku. There is no point argueing any further. Its already been proven. Fights in DBZ are predetermined by who has the highest powerlevel. Gohan had the higher power level, he wins. Plain and simple.
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1
@Newdeath said:
"Listen Supercool skill was not a factor in any of the feats you stated. Majin Vegeta held his own against Fat Buu because Fat Buu is playful and was not actually trying to immediately kill him and rather thought it was a game, when he became serious he dominated Vegeta terribly. Goku and Vegeta defeated Super Buu inside his body through planning not skill so don't reach. Gohan used his power against Anrdoid 18 and 17 and if you recall there was an instance where Gohan actually overpowered a blast by the Androids using his own implying that he is just as powerful as the individual Androids however that does not apply and your feat of Gohan is moot. Kid Buu clearly had an advantage not simply because of his regeneration but also power, Goku had run out of power countless times before Kid Buu regenerated from colossal attacks, Gohan is much more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, Goku's power will rapidly deplete, I doesn't matter how much more powerful Frieza was than Goku the feat still stands skill does not matter in DBZ that is why Goku trains to increase his power. Goku admitted himself that he would have been killed by Super Buu if he had fought him however Gohan effortlessly manhandled him, Goku defeated Pikkon because of skill yes but using Pikkon is plain idiotic because the power gap he and Goku had was one of the smallest in all of DBZ and Pikkon didn't defeat Frieza and Cell because of superior skill please it was a cheap shot, both Cell and Frieza were distracted and occupied by Goku and Pikkon was using his speed not skill he knocked Frieza and Cell away with a surprising attack that nobody expected because it was a cheap shot his enemies were not aware that he would attack so it wasn't skill. Your arguments don't prove why Goku wins it just proves that you simply favor Goku for no good reasons. Goku's skill over Gohan is not tha great and it will not close the large gab of power he has with Gohan and his energy will rapidly decrease. Look at it this way. 100% power Frieza held his own very well against SSJ Goku on Namek however when his power began to deplete and he lost but before it happened he actually gained the upper hand in the battle and if your logic is correc then Goku should have won because he had the superior skill however when 100% power Frieza was at full power he had gained the uppper hand during their battle until his power began to deplete however in this battle not only does Goku's power deplete he is even weaker than Gohan. Gohan wins, it has also been decided by the majority of the users here. "

Okay you want to see more examples of technique, Raditz battled goku and piccolo, they could have defeated him through technique, an example that skill matters. Goku was not even scared of picollo buu, and remember this is animevice, Goku beat Pikkon by skill. Powerlevel plays a huge role in the fights, you are right about that, but just look at it this way, vegetto was more powerful than buu, but some of his techniques were good enough to threaten vegetto. 
Vegeta, no match for Cell, but he could have destroyed cell. Goku was also no match for cell in speed but still managed to hold his own. Gohan however, who was stronger than dabura was just sloppy, and I admit he did improve slightly, but goku is far better than dabura in skill. 
Gohan was not able to stand up to the mind games, he was too predictable, and it is stuff like that, which lose you the fight. Sure goku is not Picollo, but he is very experienced, and has been known to read his opponents like a book. 
Gohan slaughtered buu, but gotenks could have destroyed buu as well, goku is stronger than goenks, and so had no reason to be scared apart from the fact  that he had just fought and so he was worried about energy. 
Kid buu is stronger than kid buu according to anime and games, etc... 
Goku said he could have destroyed kid buu. 
Goku has managed to do the impossible many times, in dragonball he has faced enemies who were stronger than him, but he still beat them, and so skill is still vital, gohan was just too much above super buu too see that he was not skillful, but once gotenks and picollo were absorbed, it all came out. 
So I think that skill does beat power, goku's techniques should give him an edge, a warp kamehameha would do the trick, they will both be tired, lol. 
Peace.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@Supercool99 said:
" @Newdeath said:
"Listen Supercool skill was not a factor in any of the feats you stated. Majin Vegeta held his own against Fat Buu because Fat Buu is playful and was not actually trying to immediately kill him and rather thought it was a game, when he became serious he dominated Vegeta terribly. Goku and Vegeta defeated Super Buu inside his body through planning not skill so don't reach. Gohan used his power against Anrdoid 18 and 17 and if you recall there was an instance where Gohan actually overpowered a blast by the Androids using his own implying that he is just as powerful as the individual Androids however that does not apply and your feat of Gohan is moot. Kid Buu clearly had an advantage not simply because of his regeneration but also power, Goku had run out of power countless times before Kid Buu regenerated from colossal attacks, Gohan is much more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, Goku's power will rapidly deplete, I doesn't matter how much more powerful Frieza was than Goku the feat still stands skill does not matter in DBZ that is why Goku trains to increase his power. Goku admitted himself that he would have been killed by Super Buu if he had fought him however Gohan effortlessly manhandled him, Goku defeated Pikkon because of skill yes but using Pikkon is plain idiotic because the power gap he and Goku had was one of the smallest in all of DBZ and Pikkon didn't defeat Frieza and Cell because of superior skill please it was a cheap shot, both Cell and Frieza were distracted and occupied by Goku and Pikkon was using his speed not skill he knocked Frieza and Cell away with a surprising attack that nobody expected because it was a cheap shot his enemies were not aware that he would attack so it wasn't skill. Your arguments don't prove why Goku wins it just proves that you simply favor Goku for no good reasons. Goku's skill over Gohan is not tha great and it will not close the large gab of power he has with Gohan and his energy will rapidly decrease. Look at it this way. 100% power Frieza held his own very well against SSJ Goku on Namek however when his power began to deplete and he lost but before it happened he actually gained the upper hand in the battle and if your logic is correc then Goku should have won because he had the superior skill however when 100% power Frieza was at full power he had gained the uppper hand during their battle until his power began to deplete however in this battle not only does Goku's power deplete he is even weaker than Gohan. Gohan wins, it has also been decided by the majority of the users here. "
Okay you want to see more examples of technique, Raditz battled goku and piccolo, they could have defeated him through technique, an example that skill matters. Goku was not even scared of picollo buu, and remember this is animevice, Goku beat Pikkon by skill. Powerlevel plays a huge role in the fights, you are right about that, but just look at it this way, vegetto was more powerful than buu, but some of his techniques were good enough to threaten vegetto. Vegeta, no match for Cell, but he could have destroyed cell. Goku was also no match for cell in speed but still managed to hold his own. Gohan however, who was stronger than dabura was just sloppy, and I admit he did improve slightly, but goku is far better than dabura in skill. Gohan was not able to stand up to the mind games, he was too predictable, and it is stuff like that, which lose you the fight. Sure goku is not Picollo, but he is very experienced, and has been known to read his opponents like a book. Gohan slaughtered buu, but gotenks could have destroyed buu as well, goku is stronger than goenks, and so had no reason to be scared apart from the fact  that he had just fought and so he was worried about energy. Kid buu is stronger than kid buu according to anime and games, etc... Goku said he could have destroyed kid buu. Goku has managed to do the impossible many times, in dragonball he has faced enemies who were stronger than him, but he still beat them, and so skill is still vital, gohan was just too much above super buu too see that he was not skillful, but once gotenks and picollo were absorbed, it all came out. So I think that skill does beat power, goku's techniques should give him an edge, a warp kamehameha would do the trick, they will both be tired, lol. Peace. "
Vegito was toying with Buu so terribly it was ridiculous. It doesn't matter if Goku was not scared of his opponents. Goku did defeat Pikkon with skill but Pikkon's power level was not as different as Goku's power level is to Gohan's. Of course Vegeta could have destroyed Cell did you even read the manga and watch the episodes, Vegeta put all of his power into The Final Flash but it wasn't aimed properly so it simply destroyed Cell's arm it wasn't out of skill at all. Goku was equal to Cell in terms of power but Cell has unlimited stamina that is why he won. Gotenks could have destroyed Buu but he didn't because Gotenks is abnormally cocky and always underestimates his opponents. Goku's skill didn't prove anything, an example is the Janemba battle, Goku held his own against Janemba for mere seconds until he was overwhelmed by Janemba's power and because his energy was depleting. You just stated that Kid Buu is stronger than Kid Buu which makes no sense. Goku said he could have destroyed Kid Buu but it was a ridiculous term used to comfort Vegeta for obvious reasons. Goku defeats stronger enemies because of plot devices and new transformations, there are no new transformations or plot devices here so no stating that Goku has done the impossible doesn't matter. No a Warp Kamehameha will not do the trick, Cell was as powerful as Full Powered Super Saiyan Goku but he had more stamina which is why he would have eventually won and Goku is a better fighter so he should have won but he didn't but in Gohan's case Gohan is more powerful. It has already been decided that Gohan wins. Peace.
Post by JThree47693 (1,081 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@Supercool99 said:
"@Newdeath said:
"Listen Supercool skill was not a factor in any of the feats you stated. Majin Vegeta held his own against Fat Buu because Fat Buu is playful and was not actually trying to immediately kill him and rather thought it was a game, when he became serious he dominated Vegeta terribly. Goku and Vegeta defeated Super Buu inside his body through planning not skill so don't reach. Gohan used his power against Anrdoid 18 and 17 and if you recall there was an instance where Gohan actually overpowered a blast by the Androids using his own implying that he is just as powerful as the individual Androids however that does not apply and your feat of Gohan is moot. Kid Buu clearly had an advantage not simply because of his regeneration but also power, Goku had run out of power countless times before Kid Buu regenerated from colossal attacks, Gohan is much more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, Goku's power will rapidly deplete, I doesn't matter how much more powerful Frieza was than Goku the feat still stands skill does not matter in DBZ that is why Goku trains to increase his power. Goku admitted himself that he would have been killed by Super Buu if he had fought him however Gohan effortlessly manhandled him, Goku defeated Pikkon because of skill yes but using Pikkon is plain idiotic because the power gap he and Goku had was one of the smallest in all of DBZ and Pikkon didn't defeat Frieza and Cell because of superior skill please it was a cheap shot, both Cell and Frieza were distracted and occupied by Goku and Pikkon was using his speed not skill he knocked Frieza and Cell away with a surprising attack that nobody expected because it was a cheap shot his enemies were not aware that he would attack so it wasn't skill. Your arguments don't prove why Goku wins it just proves that you simply favor Goku for no good reasons. Goku's skill over Gohan is not tha great and it will not close the large gab of power he has with Gohan and his energy will rapidly decrease. Look at it this way. 100% power Frieza held his own very well against SSJ Goku on Namek however when his power began to deplete and he lost but before it happened he actually gained the upper hand in the battle and if your logic is correc then Goku should have won because he had the superior skill however when 100% power Frieza was at full power he had gained the uppper hand during their battle until his power began to deplete however in this battle not only does Goku's power deplete he is even weaker than Gohan. Gohan wins, it has also been decided by the majority of the users here. "
Okay you want to see more examples of technique, Raditz battled goku and piccolo, they could have defeated him through technique, an example that skill matters. Goku was not even scared of picollo buu, and remember this is animevice, Goku beat Pikkon by skill. Powerlevel plays a huge role in the fights, you are right about that, but just look at it this way, vegetto was more powerful than buu, but some of his techniques were good enough to threaten vegetto. Vegeta, no match for Cell, but he could have destroyed cell. Goku was also no match for cell in speed but still managed to hold his own. Gohan however, who was stronger than dabura was just sloppy, and I admit he did improve slightly, but goku is far better than dabura in skill. Gohan was not able to stand up to the mind games, he was too predictable, and it is stuff like that, which lose you the fight. Sure goku is not Picollo, but he is very experienced, and has been known to read his opponents like a book. Gohan slaughtered buu, but gotenks could have destroyed buu as well, goku is stronger than goenks, and so had no reason to be scared apart from the fact  that he had just fought and so he was worried about energy. Kid buu is stronger than kid buu according to anime and games, etc... Goku said he could have destroyed kid buu. Goku has managed to do the impossible many times, in dragonball he has faced enemies who were stronger than him, but he still beat them, and so skill is still vital, gohan was just too much above super buu too see that he was not skillful, but once gotenks and picollo were absorbed, it all came out. So I think that skill does beat power, goku's techniques should give him an edge, a warp kamehameha would do the trick, they will both be tired, lol. Peace. "

Fail. They didnt defeat him through skill, they defeated him through strategy. They tried to go toe to toe with him and failed miserably, then thy formulated a lan to defeat him. Its not skill, its strategy. Goku defeating people stronger thanhim wasnt through skill, it was either him raising his powerlevel or strategy. Think about how he defeated Kid Buu, Vegeta formulated a plan to beat him. No skill was involved. The only skilled fighters i DBZ are Master Roshi and Hercule. They actually trained and honed their fighting skills, they didnt train to raise their powerlevel, like most of the Z Warriors.
Post by FLCL1 (3,935 posts) See mini bio Level 7

friendly warning 
 

 
 
Post by JThree47693 (1,081 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@FLCL1 said:
"
friendly warning 
 

 
 
"

LAUGH MY ASS OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by FLCL1 (3,935 posts) See mini bio Level 7

LOL
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1
@Newdeath said:
" @Supercool99 said:
" @Newdeath said:
"Listen Supercool skill was not a factor in any of the feats you stated. Majin Vegeta held his own against Fat Buu because Fat Buu is playful and was not actually trying to immediately kill him and rather thought it was a game, when he became serious he dominated Vegeta terribly. Goku and Vegeta defeated Super Buu inside his body through planning not skill so don't reach. Gohan used his power against Anrdoid 18 and 17 and if you recall there was an instance where Gohan actually overpowered a blast by the Androids using his own implying that he is just as powerful as the individual Androids however that does not apply and your feat of Gohan is moot. Kid Buu clearly had an advantage not simply because of his regeneration but also power, Goku had run out of power countless times before Kid Buu regenerated from colossal attacks, Gohan is much more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, Goku's power will rapidly deplete, I doesn't matter how much more powerful Frieza was than Goku the feat still stands skill does not matter in DBZ that is why Goku trains to increase his power. Goku admitted himself that he would have been killed by Super Buu if he had fought him however Gohan effortlessly manhandled him, Goku defeated Pikkon because of skill yes but using Pikkon is plain idiotic because the power gap he and Goku had was one of the smallest in all of DBZ and Pikkon didn't defeat Frieza and Cell because of superior skill please it was a cheap shot, both Cell and Frieza were distracted and occupied by Goku and Pikkon was using his speed not skill he knocked Frieza and Cell away with a surprising attack that nobody expected because it was a cheap shot his enemies were not aware that he would attack so it wasn't skill. Your arguments don't prove why Goku wins it just proves that you simply favor Goku for no good reasons. Goku's skill over Gohan is not tha great and it will not close the large gab of power he has with Gohan and his energy will rapidly decrease. Look at it this way. 100% power Frieza held his own very well against SSJ Goku on Namek however when his power began to deplete and he lost but before it happened he actually gained the upper hand in the battle and if your logic is correc then Goku should have won because he had the superior skill however when 100% power Frieza was at full power he had gained the uppper hand during their battle until his power began to deplete however in this battle not only does Goku's power deplete he is even weaker than Gohan. Gohan wins, it has also been decided by the majority of the users here. "
Okay you want to see more examples of technique, Raditz battled goku and piccolo, they could have defeated him through technique, an example that skill matters. Goku was not even scared of picollo buu, and remember this is animevice, Goku beat Pikkon by skill. Powerlevel plays a huge role in the fights, you are right about that, but just look at it this way, vegetto was more powerful than buu, but some of his techniques were good enough to threaten vegetto. Vegeta, no match for Cell, but he could have destroyed cell. Goku was also no match for cell in speed but still managed to hold his own. Gohan however, who was stronger than dabura was just sloppy, and I admit he did improve slightly, but goku is far better than dabura in skill. Gohan was not able to stand up to the mind games, he was too predictable, and it is stuff like that, which lose you the fight. Sure goku is not Picollo, but he is very experienced, and has been known to read his opponents like a book. Gohan slaughtered buu, but gotenks could have destroyed buu as well, goku is stronger than goenks, and so had no reason to be scared apart from the fact  that he had just fought and so he was worried about energy. Kid buu is stronger than kid buu according to anime and games, etc... Goku said he could have destroyed kid buu. Goku has managed to do the impossible many times, in dragonball he has faced enemies who were stronger than him, but he still beat them, and so skill is still vital, gohan was just too much above super buu too see that he was not skillful, but once gotenks and picollo were absorbed, it all came out. So I think that skill does beat power, goku's techniques should give him an edge, a warp kamehameha would do the trick, they will both be tired, lol. Peace. "
Vegito was toying with Buu so terribly it was ridiculous. It doesn't matter if Goku was not scared of his opponents. Goku did defeat Pikkon with skill but Pikkon's power level was not as different as Goku's power level is to Gohan's. Of course Vegeta could have destroyed Cell did you even read the manga and watch the episodes, Vegeta put all of his power into The Final Flash but it wasn't aimed properly so it simply destroyed Cell's arm it wasn't out of skill at all. Goku was equal to Cell in terms of power but Cell has unlimited stamina that is why he won. Gotenks could have destroyed Buu but he didn't because Gotenks is abnormally cocky and always underestimates his opponents. Goku's skill didn't prove anything, an example is the Janemba battle, Goku held his own against Janemba for mere seconds until he was overwhelmed by Janemba's power and because his energy was depleting. You just stated that Kid Buu is stronger than Kid Buu which makes no sense. Goku said he could have destroyed Kid Buu but it was a ridiculous term used to comfort Vegeta for obvious reasons. Goku defeats stronger enemies because of plot devices and new transformations, there are no new transformations or plot devices here so no stating that Goku has done the impossible doesn't matter. No a Warp Kamehameha will not do the trick, Cell was as powerful as Full Powered Super Saiyan Goku but he had more stamina which is why he would have eventually won and Goku is a better fighter so he should have won but he didn't but in Gohan's case Gohan is more powerful. It has already been decided that Gohan wins. Peace. "

Cool, it has been decided in your mind, goku was not faster than cell, at one point he could not even see cell. I can argue that it was just a ridiculous statement by goku, just to get vegeta to fuse with him, to get the battle over and done with, because when they were fused, there was no chance at all of buu beating them. Goku defeats stronger enemies like demon king picollo by techniques and skill, as well as power. a warp kamehameha would easily do the trick. 
 
Gohan is not that far above goku, and so comparing it to his battle with frieza is not accurate, goku needs no further transformation, none of goku's enemies were sloppy fighters like gohan. 
I argue that goku could have easily defeated super buu. Kid buu according to anime is the strongest unfused buu, and super buu, according to nothing is the strongest buu. 
Goku was also able to hold his own against cell because cell was using techniques from goku's friends, and opponents from previous battles, all of cell's bags of tricks were not good enough, Goku knows how gohan fights, whereas goku is constantly learning new techniques. 
 
If the battle lasts long goku is finished, but goku will know that, and so will likely go all out as it starts.
Post by Daniel_Newton (3,181 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
OK, I've read through most of this thread and although most people have gone with Gohan, I'm not so sure. But I can't be bothered to go into it right now, maybe later. I do agree that the energy needed to sustain the Super Saiyan 3 form might give Gohan an edge though.

One thing though, Saiyan/Human hybrids are not stronger than pure Saiyans. I don't think that was ever actually stated as fact, unless someone can prove it. Gohan was just the character who had seemingly massive amounts of hidden power and potential. Saiyans and half-breeds both have the ability to get stronger through training and fighting, there is no real limit to how strong they can get. In fact pure Saiyans have a slight advantage because they live longer/stay at there prime longer whereas hybrids age much more like humans.
 
Oh and guys, cool it will you? Arguing on the internet is like... actually I doubt I can top the image FLCL1 posted, so I won't try. Atleast this thread has more posts than most I guess :)
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@Supercool99 said:
" @Newdeath said:
" @Supercool99 said:
" @Newdeath said:
"Listen Supercool skill was not a factor in any of the feats you stated. Majin Vegeta held his own against Fat Buu because Fat Buu is playful and was not actually trying to immediately kill him and rather thought it was a game, when he became serious he dominated Vegeta terribly. Goku and Vegeta defeated Super Buu inside his body through planning not skill so don't reach. Gohan used his power against Anrdoid 18 and 17 and if you recall there was an instance where Gohan actually overpowered a blast by the Androids using his own implying that he is just as powerful as the individual Androids however that does not apply and your feat of Gohan is moot. Kid Buu clearly had an advantage not simply because of his regeneration but also power, Goku had run out of power countless times before Kid Buu regenerated from colossal attacks, Gohan is much more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, Goku's power will rapidly deplete, I doesn't matter how much more powerful Frieza was than Goku the feat still stands skill does not matter in DBZ that is why Goku trains to increase his power. Goku admitted himself that he would have been killed by Super Buu if he had fought him however Gohan effortlessly manhandled him, Goku defeated Pikkon because of skill yes but using Pikkon is plain idiotic because the power gap he and Goku had was one of the smallest in all of DBZ and Pikkon didn't defeat Frieza and Cell because of superior skill please it was a cheap shot, both Cell and Frieza were distracted and occupied by Goku and Pikkon was using his speed not skill he knocked Frieza and Cell away with a surprising attack that nobody expected because it was a cheap shot his enemies were not aware that he would attack so it wasn't skill. Your arguments don't prove why Goku wins it just proves that you simply favor Goku for no good reasons. Goku's skill over Gohan is not tha great and it will not close the large gab of power he has with Gohan and his energy will rapidly decrease. Look at it this way. 100% power Frieza held his own very well against SSJ Goku on Namek however when his power began to deplete and he lost but before it happened he actually gained the upper hand in the battle and if your logic is correc then Goku should have won because he had the superior skill however when 100% power Frieza was at full power he had gained the uppper hand during their battle until his power began to deplete however in this battle not only does Goku's power deplete he is even weaker than Gohan. Gohan wins, it has also been decided by the majority of the users here. "
Okay you want to see more examples of technique, Raditz battled goku and piccolo, they could have defeated him through technique, an example that skill matters. Goku was not even scared of picollo buu, and remember this is animevice, Goku beat Pikkon by skill. Powerlevel plays a huge role in the fights, you are right about that, but just look at it this way, vegetto was more powerful than buu, but some of his techniques were good enough to threaten vegetto. Vegeta, no match for Cell, but he could have destroyed cell. Goku was also no match for cell in speed but still managed to hold his own. Gohan however, who was stronger than dabura was just sloppy, and I admit he did improve slightly, but goku is far better than dabura in skill. Gohan was not able to stand up to the mind games, he was too predictable, and it is stuff like that, which lose you the fight. Sure goku is not Picollo, but he is very experienced, and has been known to read his opponents like a book. Gohan slaughtered buu, but gotenks could have destroyed buu as well, goku is stronger than goenks, and so had no reason to be scared apart from the fact  that he had just fought and so he was worried about energy. Kid buu is stronger than kid buu according to anime and games, etc... Goku said he could have destroyed kid buu. Goku has managed to do the impossible many times, in dragonball he has faced enemies who were stronger than him, but he still beat them, and so skill is still vital, gohan was just too much above super buu too see that he was not skillful, but once gotenks and picollo were absorbed, it all came out. So I think that skill does beat power, goku's techniques should give him an edge, a warp kamehameha would do the trick, they will both be tired, lol. Peace. "
Vegito was toying with Buu so terribly it was ridiculous. It doesn't matter if Goku was not scared of his opponents. Goku did defeat Pikkon with skill but Pikkon's power level was not as different as Goku's power level is to Gohan's. Of course Vegeta could have destroyed Cell did you even read the manga and watch the episodes, Vegeta put all of his power into The Final Flash but it wasn't aimed properly so it simply destroyed Cell's arm it wasn't out of skill at all. Goku was equal to Cell in terms of power but Cell has unlimited stamina that is why he won. Gotenks could have destroyed Buu but he didn't because Gotenks is abnormally cocky and always underestimates his opponents. Goku's skill didn't prove anything, an example is the Janemba battle, Goku held his own against Janemba for mere seconds until he was overwhelmed by Janemba's power and because his energy was depleting. You just stated that Kid Buu is stronger than Kid Buu which makes no sense. Goku said he could have destroyed Kid Buu but it was a ridiculous term used to comfort Vegeta for obvious reasons. Goku defeats stronger enemies because of plot devices and new transformations, there are no new transformations or plot devices here so no stating that Goku has done the impossible doesn't matter. No a Warp Kamehameha will not do the trick, Cell was as powerful as Full Powered Super Saiyan Goku but he had more stamina which is why he would have eventually won and Goku is a better fighter so he should have won but he didn't but in Gohan's case Gohan is more powerful. It has already been decided that Gohan wins. Peace. "
Cool, it has been decided in your mind, goku was not faster than cell, at one point he could not even see cell. I can argue that it was just a ridiculous statement by goku, just to get vegeta to fuse with him, to get the battle over and done with, because when they were fused, there was no chance at all of buu beating them. Goku defeats stronger enemies like demon king picollo by techniques and skill, as well as power. a warp kamehameha would easily do the trick.  Gohan is not that far above goku, and so comparing it to his battle with frieza is not accurate, goku needs no further transformation, none of goku's enemies were sloppy fighters like gohan. I argue that goku could have easily defeated super buu. Kid buu according to anime is the strongest unfused buu, and super buu, according to nothing is the strongest buu. Goku was also able to hold his own against cell because cell was using techniques from goku's friends, and opponents from previous battles, all of cell's bags of tricks were not good enough, Goku knows how gohan fights, whereas goku is constantly learning new techniques.  If the battle lasts long goku is finished, but goku will know that, and so will likely go all out as it starts. "
No it has not, it has been decided generally because more users believe that Gohan would win. I never said Goku was faster than Cell, you did right now. There was a very good chance at Super Buu killing them if they hadn't fused it was clearly implied. Demon King Piccolo's power was not as different as Gohan's power is compared to Goku's, I never said skill is completely useless but it won't matter when Goku faces someone who far eclipses his power. A warp kamehameha wouldn't easily do the trick, you haven't proven it will, if it would do the trick it should have done the trick with Cell who was equal to Goku in power in his Full Powered Super Saiyan form with his only advantage being limitless stamina. I didn't use the Frieza battle. When Gohan's full potential was unlocked by Elder Kai his power along with his fighting skill was replenished. There is no evidence that Goku could have easily defeated Super Buu, wrong the anime is not canon because in the manga it doesn't state that Kid Buu is the strongest non fused Majin Buu incarnation, it states that it is the purest and most dangerous not the most powerful. Super Buu is the most powerful non fused Buu because of feats of power. No it was clearly shown that Goku and Cell were equal in terms of power with the only advantage Cell had would be regeneration and stamina. Goku has never seen Ultimate Gohan fight, Ultimate Gohan fights very differently from his past selves. Goku is not constantly learning new techniques, Goku is constantly increasing his power, Goku learns new techniques here and then not all the time. No Goku going all out will not win him the battle, if anything Gohan knows that SSJ3 doesn't last long and would likely use it to his advantage and since he is more powerful than Goku and doesn't suffer from massive ki consumption he will win. 
Post by FLCL1 (3,935 posts) See mini bio Level 7

 
 
is this thread still up XD
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1
@Newdeath said:
" @Supercool99 said:
" @Newdeath said:
" @Supercool99 said:
" @Newdeath said:
"Listen Supercool skill was not a factor in any of the feats you stated. Majin Vegeta held his own against Fat Buu because Fat Buu is playful and was not actually trying to immediately kill him and rather thought it was a game, when he became serious he dominated Vegeta terribly. Goku and Vegeta defeated Super Buu inside his body through planning not skill so don't reach. Gohan used his power against Anrdoid 18 and 17 and if you recall there was an instance where Gohan actually overpowered a blast by the Androids using his own implying that he is just as powerful as the individual Androids however that does not apply and your feat of Gohan is moot. Kid Buu clearly had an advantage not simply because of his regeneration but also power, Goku had run out of power countless times before Kid Buu regenerated from colossal attacks, Gohan is much more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, Goku's power will rapidly deplete, I doesn't matter how much more powerful Frieza was than Goku the feat still stands skill does not matter in DBZ that is why Goku trains to increase his power. Goku admitted himself that he would have been killed by Super Buu if he had fought him however Gohan effortlessly manhandled him, Goku defeated Pikkon because of skill yes but using Pikkon is plain idiotic because the power gap he and Goku had was one of the smallest in all of DBZ and Pikkon didn't defeat Frieza and Cell because of superior skill please it was a cheap shot, both Cell and Frieza were distracted and occupied by Goku and Pikkon was using his speed not skill he knocked Frieza and Cell away with a surprising attack that nobody expected because it was a cheap shot his enemies were not aware that he would attack so it wasn't skill. Your arguments don't prove why Goku wins it just proves that you simply favor Goku for no good reasons. Goku's skill over Gohan is not tha great and it will not close the large gab of power he has with Gohan and his energy will rapidly decrease. Look at it this way. 100% power Frieza held his own very well against SSJ Goku on Namek however when his power began to deplete and he lost but before it happened he actually gained the upper hand in the battle and if your logic is correc then Goku should have won because he had the superior skill however when 100% power Frieza was at full power he had gained the uppper hand during their battle until his power began to deplete however in this battle not only does Goku's power deplete he is even weaker than Gohan. Gohan wins, it has also been decided by the majority of the users here. "
Okay you want to see more examples of technique, Raditz battled goku and piccolo, they could have defeated him through technique, an example that skill matters. Goku was not even scared of picollo buu, and remember this is animevice, Goku beat Pikkon by skill. Powerlevel plays a huge role in the fights, you are right about that, but just look at it this way, vegetto was more powerful than buu, but some of his techniques were good enough to threaten vegetto. Vegeta, no match for Cell, but he could have destroyed cell. Goku was also no match for cell in speed but still managed to hold his own. Gohan however, who was stronger than dabura was just sloppy, and I admit he did improve slightly, but goku is far better than dabura in skill. Gohan was not able to stand up to the mind games, he was too predictable, and it is stuff like that, which lose you the fight. Sure goku is not Picollo, but he is very experienced, and has been known to read his opponents like a book. Gohan slaughtered buu, but gotenks could have destroyed buu as well, goku is stronger than goenks, and so had no reason to be scared apart from the fact  that he had just fought and so he was worried about energy. Kid buu is stronger than kid buu according to anime and games, etc... Goku said he could have destroyed kid buu. Goku has managed to do the impossible many times, in dragonball he has faced enemies who were stronger than him, but he still beat them, and so skill is still vital, gohan was just too much above super buu too see that he was not skillful, but once gotenks and picollo were absorbed, it all came out. So I think that skill does beat power, goku's techniques should give him an edge, a warp kamehameha would do the trick, they will both be tired, lol. Peace. "
Vegito was toying with Buu so terribly it was ridiculous. It doesn't matter if Goku was not scared of his opponents. Goku did defeat Pikkon with skill but Pikkon's power level was not as different as Goku's power level is to Gohan's. Of course Vegeta could have destroyed Cell did you even read the manga and watch the episodes, Vegeta put all of his power into The Final Flash but it wasn't aimed properly so it simply destroyed Cell's arm it wasn't out of skill at all. Goku was equal to Cell in terms of power but Cell has unlimited stamina that is why he won. Gotenks could have destroyed Buu but he didn't because Gotenks is abnormally cocky and always underestimates his opponents. Goku's skill didn't prove anything, an example is the Janemba battle, Goku held his own against Janemba for mere seconds until he was overwhelmed by Janemba's power and because his energy was depleting. You just stated that Kid Buu is stronger than Kid Buu which makes no sense. Goku said he could have destroyed Kid Buu but it was a ridiculous term used to comfort Vegeta for obvious reasons. Goku defeats stronger enemies because of plot devices and new transformations, there are no new transformations or plot devices here so no stating that Goku has done the impossible doesn't matter. No a Warp Kamehameha will not do the trick, Cell was as powerful as Full Powered Super Saiyan Goku but he had more stamina which is why he would have eventually won and Goku is a better fighter so he should have won but he didn't but in Gohan's case Gohan is more powerful. It has already been decided that Gohan wins. Peace. "
Cool, it has been decided in your mind, goku was not faster than cell, at one point he could not even see cell. I can argue that it was just a ridiculous statement by goku, just to get vegeta to fuse with him, to get the battle over and done with, because when they were fused, there was no chance at all of buu beating them. Goku defeats stronger enemies like demon king picollo by techniques and skill, as well as power. a warp kamehameha would easily do the trick.  Gohan is not that far above goku, and so comparing it to his battle with frieza is not accurate, goku needs no further transformation, none of goku's enemies were sloppy fighters like gohan. I argue that goku could have easily defeated super buu. Kid buu according to anime is the strongest unfused buu, and super buu, according to nothing is the strongest buu. Goku was also able to hold his own against cell because cell was using techniques from goku's friends, and opponents from previous battles, all of cell's bags of tricks were not good enough, Goku knows how gohan fights, whereas goku is constantly learning new techniques.  If the battle lasts long goku is finished, but goku will know that, and so will likely go all out as it starts. "
No it has not, it has been decided generally because more users believe that Gohan would win. I never said Goku was faster than Cell, you did right now. There was a very good chance at Super Buu killing them if they hadn't fused it was clearly implied. Demon King Piccolo's power was not as different as Gohan's power is compared to Goku's, I never said skill is completely useless but it won't matter when Goku faces someone who far eclipses his power. A warp kamehameha wouldn't easily do the trick, you haven't proven it will, if it would do the trick it should have done the trick with Cell who was equal to Goku in power in his Full Powered Super Saiyan form with his only advantage being limitless stamina. I didn't use the Frieza battle. When Gohan's full potential was unlocked by Elder Kai his power along with his fighting skill was replenished. There is no evidence that Goku could have easily defeated Super Buu, wrong the anime is not canon because in the manga it doesn't state that Kid Buu is the strongest non fused Majin Buu incarnation, it states that it is the purest and most dangerous not the most powerful. Super Buu is the most powerful non fused Buu because of feats of power. No it was clearly shown that Goku and Cell were equal in terms of power with the only advantage Cell had would be regeneration and stamina. Goku has never seen Ultimate Gohan fight, Ultimate Gohan fights very differently from his past selves. Goku is not constantly learning new techniques, Goku is constantly increasing his power, Goku learns new techniques here and then not all the time. No Goku going all out will not win him the battle, if anything Gohan knows that SSJ3 doesn't last long and would likely use it to his advantage and since he is more powerful than Goku and doesn't suffer from massive ki consumption he will win.  "

Kid buu is clearly stronger than superbuu, it was clearly stated by supreme kai, super buu could not even handle gotenjks, and so it was obvious that gohan would wipe the floor with super buu. 
Gohan can not regenerate like cell, goku aimed the blast at cell's upper body because he knew that piccolo could not regenerate unless his head is intact, and so he thought that it would kill cell. 
Cell was faster than goku, and so goku was on the defensive alot, he had to rely on his skill to even the battle. peace.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@Supercool99 said:
" @Newdeath said:
" @Supercool99 said:
" @Newdeath said:
" @Supercool99 said:
" @Newdeath said:
"Listen Supercool skill was not a factor in any of the feats you stated. Majin Vegeta held his own against Fat Buu because Fat Buu is playful and was not actually trying to immediately kill him and rather thought it was a game, when he became serious he dominated Vegeta terribly. Goku and Vegeta defeated Super Buu inside his body through planning not skill so don't reach. Gohan used his power against Anrdoid 18 and 17 and if you recall there was an instance where Gohan actually overpowered a blast by the Androids using his own implying that he is just as powerful as the individual Androids however that does not apply and your feat of Gohan is moot. Kid Buu clearly had an advantage not simply because of his regeneration but also power, Goku had run out of power countless times before Kid Buu regenerated from colossal attacks, Gohan is much more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, Goku's power will rapidly deplete, I doesn't matter how much more powerful Frieza was than Goku the feat still stands skill does not matter in DBZ that is why Goku trains to increase his power. Goku admitted himself that he would have been killed by Super Buu if he had fought him however Gohan effortlessly manhandled him, Goku defeated Pikkon because of skill yes but using Pikkon is plain idiotic because the power gap he and Goku had was one of the smallest in all of DBZ and Pikkon didn't defeat Frieza and Cell because of superior skill please it was a cheap shot, both Cell and Frieza were distracted and occupied by Goku and Pikkon was using his speed not skill he knocked Frieza and Cell away with a surprising attack that nobody expected because it was a cheap shot his enemies were not aware that he would attack so it wasn't skill. Your arguments don't prove why Goku wins it just proves that you simply favor Goku for no good reasons. Goku's skill over Gohan is not tha great and it will not close the large gab of power he has with Gohan and his energy will rapidly decrease. Look at it this way. 100% power Frieza held his own very well against SSJ Goku on Namek however when his power began to deplete and he lost but before it happened he actually gained the upper hand in the battle and if your logic is correc then Goku should have won because he had the superior skill however when 100% power Frieza was at full power he had gained the uppper hand during their battle until his power began to deplete however in this battle not only does Goku's power deplete he is even weaker than Gohan. Gohan wins, it has also been decided by the majority of the users here. "
Okay you want to see more examples of technique, Raditz battled goku and piccolo, they could have defeated him through technique, an example that skill matters. Goku was not even scared of picollo buu, and remember this is animevice, Goku beat Pikkon by skill. Powerlevel plays a huge role in the fights, you are right about that, but just look at it this way, vegetto was more powerful than buu, but some of his techniques were good enough to threaten vegetto. Vegeta, no match for Cell, but he could have destroyed cell. Goku was also no match for cell in speed but still managed to hold his own. Gohan however, who was stronger than dabura was just sloppy, and I admit he did improve slightly, but goku is far better than dabura in skill. Gohan was not able to stand up to the mind games, he was too predictable, and it is stuff like that, which lose you the fight. Sure goku is not Picollo, but he is very experienced, and has been known to read his opponents like a book. Gohan slaughtered buu, but gotenks could have destroyed buu as well, goku is stronger than goenks, and so had no reason to be scared apart from the fact  that he had just fought and so he was worried about energy. Kid buu is stronger than kid buu according to anime and games, etc... Goku said he could have destroyed kid buu. Goku has managed to do the impossible many times, in dragonball he has faced enemies who were stronger than him, but he still beat them, and so skill is still vital, gohan was just too much above super buu too see that he was not skillful, but once gotenks and picollo were absorbed, it all came out. So I think that skill does beat power, goku's techniques should give him an edge, a warp kamehameha would do the trick, they will both be tired, lol. Peace. "
Vegito was toying with Buu so terribly it was ridiculous. It doesn't matter if Goku was not scared of his opponents. Goku did defeat Pikkon with skill but Pikkon's power level was not as different as Goku's power level is to Gohan's. Of course Vegeta could have destroyed Cell did you even read the manga and watch the episodes, Vegeta put all of his power into The Final Flash but it wasn't aimed properly so it simply destroyed Cell's arm it wasn't out of skill at all. Goku was equal to Cell in terms of power but Cell has unlimited stamina that is why he won. Gotenks could have destroyed Buu but he didn't because Gotenks is abnormally cocky and always underestimates his opponents. Goku's skill didn't prove anything, an example is the Janemba battle, Goku held his own against Janemba for mere seconds until he was overwhelmed by Janemba's power and because his energy was depleting. You just stated that Kid Buu is stronger than Kid Buu which makes no sense. Goku said he could have destroyed Kid Buu but it was a ridiculous term used to comfort Vegeta for obvious reasons. Goku defeats stronger enemies because of plot devices and new transformations, there are no new transformations or plot devices here so no stating that Goku has done the impossible doesn't matter. No a Warp Kamehameha will not do the trick, Cell was as powerful as Full Powered Super Saiyan Goku but he had more stamina which is why he would have eventually won and Goku is a better fighter so he should have won but he didn't but in Gohan's case Gohan is more powerful. It has already been decided that Gohan wins. Peace. "
Cool, it has been decided in your mind, goku was not faster than cell, at one point he could not even see cell. I can argue that it was just a ridiculous statement by goku, just to get vegeta to fuse with him, to get the battle over and done with, because when they were fused, there was no chance at all of buu beating them. Goku defeats stronger enemies like demon king picollo by techniques and skill, as well as power. a warp kamehameha would easily do the trick.  Gohan is not that far above goku, and so comparing it to his battle with frieza is not accurate, goku needs no further transformation, none of goku's enemies were sloppy fighters like gohan. I argue that goku could have easily defeated super buu. Kid buu according to anime is the strongest unfused buu, and super buu, according to nothing is the strongest buu. Goku was also able to hold his own against cell because cell was using techniques from goku's friends, and opponents from previous battles, all of cell's bags of tricks were not good enough, Goku knows how gohan fights, whereas goku is constantly learning new techniques.  If the battle lasts long goku is finished, but goku will know that, and so will likely go all out as it starts. "
No it has not, it has been decided generally because more users believe that Gohan would win. I never said Goku was faster than Cell, you did right now. There was a very good chance at Super Buu killing them if they hadn't fused it was clearly implied. Demon King Piccolo's power was not as different as Gohan's power is compared to Goku's, I never said skill is completely useless but it won't matter when Goku faces someone who far eclipses his power. A warp kamehameha wouldn't easily do the trick, you haven't proven it will, if it would do the trick it should have done the trick with Cell who was equal to Goku in power in his Full Powered Super Saiyan form with his only advantage being limitless stamina. I didn't use the Frieza battle. When Gohan's full potential was unlocked by Elder Kai his power along with his fighting skill was replenished. There is no evidence that Goku could have easily defeated Super Buu, wrong the anime is not canon because in the manga it doesn't state that Kid Buu is the strongest non fused Majin Buu incarnation, it states that it is the purest and most dangerous not the most powerful. Super Buu is the most powerful non fused Buu because of feats of power. No it was clearly shown that Goku and Cell were equal in terms of power with the only advantage Cell had would be regeneration and stamina. Goku has never seen Ultimate Gohan fight, Ultimate Gohan fights very differently from his past selves. Goku is not constantly learning new techniques, Goku is constantly increasing his power, Goku learns new techniques here and then not all the time. No Goku going all out will not win him the battle, if anything Gohan knows that SSJ3 doesn't last long and would likely use it to his advantage and since he is more powerful than Goku and doesn't suffer from massive ki consumption he will win.  "
Kid buu is clearly stronger than superbuu, it was clearly stated by supreme kai, super buu could not even handle gotenjks, and so it was obvious that gohan would wipe the floor with super buu. Gohan can not regenerate like cell, goku aimed the blast at cell's upper body because he knew that piccolo could not regenerate unless his head is intact, and so he thought that it would kill cell. Cell was faster than goku, and so goku was on the defensive alot, he had to rely on his skill to even the battle. peace. "
Kid Buu is not clearly stronger than Super Buu not at all, Supreme Kai stated that Kid Buu was the purest and most dangerous form of the Buu's also the most feared but nothing about being the most powerful non-fused Buu incarnation, that was in the anime and not the manga so it isn't canon. It doesn't matter if Gohan cannot regenerate like Cell, Cell allowed himself to be struck by Goku's attacks during certain times to test his durability and endurance. Cell was not that much faster than Goku if anything he was slightly faster, Goku used the instant transmission only because he was later overwhelmed by Cell's speed and used it to counter it and no in terms of power Full Powered Super Saiyan Goku was exceptionally equal to Cell with the only advantage being regeneration, stamina and a slight speed disadvantage. Peace.
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1
@Newdeath said:
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"Listen Supercool skill was not a factor in any of the feats you stated. Majin Vegeta held his own against Fat Buu because Fat Buu is playful and was not actually trying to immediately kill him and rather thought it was a game, when he became serious he dominated Vegeta terribly. Goku and Vegeta defeated Super Buu inside his body through planning not skill so don't reach. Gohan used his power against Anrdoid 18 and 17 and if you recall there was an instance where Gohan actually overpowered a blast by the Androids using his own implying that he is just as powerful as the individual Androids however that does not apply and your feat of Gohan is moot. Kid Buu clearly had an advantage not simply because of his regeneration but also power, Goku had run out of power countless times before Kid Buu regenerated from colossal attacks, Gohan is much more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, Goku's power will rapidly deplete, I doesn't matter how much more powerful Frieza was than Goku the feat still stands skill does not matter in DBZ that is why Goku trains to increase his power. Goku admitted himself that he would have been killed by Super Buu if he had fought him however Gohan effortlessly manhandled him, Goku defeated Pikkon because of skill yes but using Pikkon is plain idiotic because the power gap he and Goku had was one of the smallest in all of DBZ and Pikkon didn't defeat Frieza and Cell because of superior skill please it was a cheap shot, both Cell and Frieza were distracted and occupied by Goku and Pikkon was using his speed not skill he knocked Frieza and Cell away with a surprising attack that nobody expected because it was a cheap shot his enemies were not aware that he would attack so it wasn't skill. Your arguments don't prove why Goku wins it just proves that you simply favor Goku for no good reasons. Goku's skill over Gohan is not tha great and it will not close the large gab of power he has with Gohan and his energy will rapidly decrease. Look at it this way. 100% power Frieza held his own very well against SSJ Goku on Namek however when his power began to deplete and he lost but before it happened he actually gained the upper hand in the battle and if your logic is correc then Goku should have won because he had the superior skill however when 100% power Frieza was at full power he had gained the uppper hand during their battle until his power began to deplete however in this battle not only does Goku's power deplete he is even weaker than Gohan. Gohan wins, it has also been decided by the majority of the users here. "
Okay you want to see more examples of technique, Raditz battled goku and piccolo, they could have defeated him through technique, an example that skill matters. Goku was not even scared of picollo buu, and remember this is animevice, Goku beat Pikkon by skill. Powerlevel plays a huge role in the fights, you are right about that, but just look at it this way, vegetto was more powerful than buu, but some of his techniques were good enough to threaten vegetto. Vegeta, no match for Cell, but he could have destroyed cell. Goku was also no match for cell in speed but still managed to hold his own. Gohan however, who was stronger than dabura was just sloppy, and I admit he did improve slightly, but goku is far better than dabura in skill. Gohan was not able to stand up to the mind games, he was too predictable, and it is stuff like that, which lose you the fight. Sure goku is not Picollo, but he is very experienced, and has been known to read his opponents like a book. Gohan slaughtered buu, but gotenks could have destroyed buu as well, goku is stronger than goenks, and so had no reason to be scared apart from the fact  that he had just fought and so he was worried about energy. Kid buu is stronger than kid buu according to anime and games, etc... Goku said he could have destroyed kid buu. Goku has managed to do the impossible many times, in dragonball he has faced enemies who were stronger than him, but he still beat them, and so skill is still vital, gohan was just too much above super buu too see that he was not skillful, but once gotenks and picollo were absorbed, it all came out. So I think that skill does beat power, goku's techniques should give him an edge, a warp kamehameha would do the trick, they will both be tired, lol. Peace. "
Vegito was toying with Buu so terribly it was ridiculous. It doesn't matter if Goku was not scared of his opponents. Goku did defeat Pikkon with skill but Pikkon's power level was not as different as Goku's power level is to Gohan's. Of course Vegeta could have destroyed Cell did you even read the manga and watch the episodes, Vegeta put all of his power into The Final Flash but it wasn't aimed properly so it simply destroyed Cell's arm it wasn't out of skill at all. Goku was equal to Cell in terms of power but Cell has unlimited stamina that is why he won. Gotenks could have destroyed Buu but he didn't because Gotenks is abnormally cocky and always underestimates his opponents. Goku's skill didn't prove anything, an example is the Janemba battle, Goku held his own against Janemba for mere seconds until he was overwhelmed by Janemba's power and because his energy was depleting. You just stated that Kid Buu is stronger than Kid Buu which makes no sense. Goku said he could have destroyed Kid Buu but it was a ridiculous term used to comfort Vegeta for obvious reasons. Goku defeats stronger enemies because of plot devices and new transformations, there are no new transformations or plot devices here so no stating that Goku has done the impossible doesn't matter. No a Warp Kamehameha will not do the trick, Cell was as powerful as Full Powered Super Saiyan Goku but he had more stamina which is why he would have eventually won and Goku is a better fighter so he should have won but he didn't but in Gohan's case Gohan is more powerful. It has already been decided that Gohan wins. Peace. "
Cool, it has been decided in your mind, goku was not faster than cell, at one point he could not even see cell. I can argue that it was just a ridiculous statement by goku, just to get vegeta to fuse with him, to get the battle over and done with, because when they were fused, there was no chance at all of buu beating them. Goku defeats stronger enemies like demon king picollo by techniques and skill, as well as power. a warp kamehameha would easily do the trick.  Gohan is not that far above goku, and so comparing it to his battle with frieza is not accurate, goku needs no further transformation, none of goku's enemies were sloppy fighters like gohan. I argue that goku could have easily defeated super buu. Kid buu according to anime is the strongest unfused buu, and super buu, according to nothing is the strongest buu. Goku was also able to hold his own against cell because cell was using techniques from goku's friends, and opponents from previous battles, all of cell's bags of tricks were not good enough, Goku knows how gohan fights, whereas goku is constantly learning new techniques.  If the battle lasts long goku is finished, but goku will know that, and so will likely go all out as it starts. "
No it has not, it has been decided generally because more users believe that Gohan would win. I never said Goku was faster than Cell, you did right now. There was a very good chance at Super Buu killing them if they hadn't fused it was clearly implied. Demon King Piccolo's power was not as different as Gohan's power is compared to Goku's, I never said skill is completely useless but it won't matter when Goku faces someone who far eclipses his power. A warp kamehameha wouldn't easily do the trick, you haven't proven it will, if it would do the trick it should have done the trick with Cell who was equal to Goku in power in his Full Powered Super Saiyan form with his only advantage being limitless stamina. I didn't use the Frieza battle. When Gohan's full potential was unlocked by Elder Kai his power along with his fighting skill was replenished. There is no evidence that Goku could have easily defeated Super Buu, wrong the anime is not canon because in the manga it doesn't state that Kid Buu is the strongest non fused Majin Buu incarnation, it states that it is the purest and most dangerous not the most powerful. Super Buu is the most powerful non fused Buu because of feats of power. No it was clearly shown that Goku and Cell were equal in terms of power with the only advantage Cell had would be regeneration and stamina. Goku has never seen Ultimate Gohan fight, Ultimate Gohan fights very differently from his past selves. Goku is not constantly learning new techniques, Goku is constantly increasing his power, Goku learns new techniques here and then not all the time. No Goku going all out will not win him the battle, if anything Gohan knows that SSJ3 doesn't last long and would likely use it to his advantage and since he is more powerful than Goku and doesn't suffer from massive ki consumption he will win.  "
Kid buu is clearly stronger than superbuu, it was clearly stated by supreme kai, super buu could not even handle gotenjks, and so it was obvious that gohan would wipe the floor with super buu. Gohan can not regenerate like cell, goku aimed the blast at cell's upper body because he knew that piccolo could not regenerate unless his head is intact, and so he thought that it would kill cell. Cell was faster than goku, and so goku was on the defensive alot, he had to rely on his skill to even the battle. peace. "
Kid Buu is not clearly stronger than Super Buu not at all, Supreme Kai stated that Kid Buu was the purest and most dangerous form of the Buu's also the most feared but nothing about being the most powerful non-fused Buu incarnation, that was in the anime and not the manga so it isn't canon. It doesn't matter if Gohan cannot regenerate like Cell, Cell allowed himself to be struck by Goku's attacks during certain times to test his durability and endurance. Cell was not that much faster than Goku if anything he was slightly faster, Goku used the instant transmission only because he was later overwhelmed by Cell's speed and used it to counter it and no in terms of power Full Powered Super Saiyan Goku was exceptionally equal to Cell with the only advantage being regeneration, stamina and a slight speed disadvantage. Peace. "

The canon excuse may work in comic-vine but not here, cell did not allow anything, where did you base that on, I hope not on the part where they used slow motion to show cell's expression. he tested his endurance on nobody, not even against vegeta, he did not have a clue. Cell had more stamina, power and was slightly more powerful in every way. Gohan is not as skillful as cell, what good is power without skill. Goku can fight with gohan, and no matter the outcome it would be a good fight. The warp kamehameha would work on gohan that much I am sure, but I still think that it is not set in stone.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@Supercool99 said:

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"Listen Supercool skill was not a factor in any of the feats you stated. Majin Vegeta held his own against Fat Buu because Fat Buu is playful and was not actually trying to immediately kill him and rather thought it was a game, when he became serious he dominated Vegeta terribly. Goku and Vegeta defeated Super Buu inside his body through planning not skill so don't reach. Gohan used his power against Anrdoid 18 and 17 and if you recall there was an instance where Gohan actually overpowered a blast by the Androids using his own implying that he is just as powerful as the individual Androids however that does not apply and your feat of Gohan is moot. Kid Buu clearly had an advantage not simply because of his regeneration but also power, Goku had run out of power countless times before Kid Buu regenerated from colossal attacks, Gohan is much more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, Goku's power will rapidly deplete, I doesn't matter how much more powerful Frieza was than Goku the feat still stands skill does not matter in DBZ that is why Goku trains to increase his power. Goku admitted himself that he would have been killed by Super Buu if he had fought him however Gohan effortlessly manhandled him, Goku defeated Pikkon because of skill yes but using Pikkon is plain idiotic because the power gap he and Goku had was one of the smallest in all of DBZ and Pikkon didn't defeat Frieza and Cell because of superior skill please it was a cheap shot, both Cell and Frieza were distracted and occupied by Goku and Pikkon was using his speed not skill he knocked Frieza and Cell away with a surprising attack that nobody expected because it was a cheap shot his enemies were not aware that he would attack so it wasn't skill. Your arguments don't prove why Goku wins it just proves that you simply favor Goku for no good reasons. Goku's skill over Gohan is not tha great and it will not close the large gab of power he has with Gohan and his energy will rapidly decrease. Look at it this way. 100% power Frieza held his own very well against SSJ Goku on Namek however when his power began to deplete and he lost but before it happened he actually gained the upper hand in the battle and if your logic is correc then Goku should have won because he had the superior skill however when 100% power Frieza was at full power he had gained the uppper hand during their battle until his power began to deplete however in this battle not only does Goku's power deplete he is even weaker than Gohan. Gohan wins, it has also been decided by the majority of the users here. "
Okay you want to see more examples of technique, Raditz battled goku and piccolo, they could have defeated him through technique, an example that skill matters. Goku was not even scared of picollo buu, and remember this is animevice, Goku beat Pikkon by skill. Powerlevel plays a huge role in the fights, you are right about that, but just look at it this way, vegetto was more powerful than buu, but some of his techniques were good enough to threaten vegetto. Vegeta, no match for Cell, but he could have destroyed cell. Goku was also no match for cell in speed but still managed to hold his own. Gohan however, who was stronger than dabura was just sloppy, and I admit he did improve slightly, but goku is far better than dabura in skill. Gohan was not able to stand up to the mind games, he was too predictable, and it is stuff like that, which lose you the fight. Sure goku is not Picollo, but he is very experienced, and has been known to read his opponents like a book. Gohan slaughtered buu, but gotenks could have destroyed buu as well, goku is stronger than goenks, and so had no reason to be scared apart from the fact  that he had just fought and so he was worried about energy. Kid buu is stronger than kid buu according to anime and games, etc... Goku said he could have destroyed kid buu. Goku has managed to do the impossible many times, in dragonball he has faced enemies who were stronger than him, but he still beat them, and so skill is still vital, gohan was just too much above super buu too see that he was not skillful, but once gotenks and picollo were absorbed, it all came out. So I think that skill does beat power, goku's techniques should give him an edge, a warp kamehameha would do the trick, they will both be tired, lol. Peace. "
Vegito was toying with Buu so terribly it was ridiculous. It doesn't matter if Goku was not scared of his opponents. Goku did defeat Pikkon with skill but Pikkon's power level was not as different as Goku's power level is to Gohan's. Of course Vegeta could have destroyed Cell did you even read the manga and watch the episodes, Vegeta put all of his power into The Final Flash but it wasn't aimed properly so it simply destroyed Cell's arm it wasn't out of skill at all. Goku was equal to Cell in terms of power but Cell has unlimited stamina that is why he won. Gotenks could have destroyed Buu but he didn't because Gotenks is abnormally cocky and always underestimates his opponents. Goku's skill didn't prove anything, an example is the Janemba battle, Goku held his own against Janemba for mere seconds until he was overwhelmed by Janemba's power and because his energy was depleting. You just stated that Kid Buu is stronger than Kid Buu which makes no sense. Goku said he could have destroyed Kid Buu but it was a ridiculous term used to comfort Vegeta for obvious reasons. Goku defeats stronger enemies because of plot devices and new transformations, there are no new transformations or plot devices here so no stating that Goku has done the impossible doesn't matter. No a Warp Kamehameha will not do the trick, Cell was as powerful as Full Powered Super Saiyan Goku but he had more stamina which is why he would have eventually won and Goku is a better fighter so he should have won but he didn't but in Gohan's case Gohan is more powerful. It has already been decided that Gohan wins. Peace. "
Cool, it has been decided in your mind, goku was not faster than cell, at one point he could not even see cell. I can argue that it was just a ridiculous statement by goku, just to get vegeta to fuse with him, to get the battle over and done with, because when they were fused, there was no chance at all of buu beating them. Goku defeats stronger enemies like demon king picollo by techniques and skill, as well as power. a warp kamehameha would easily do the trick.  Gohan is not that far above goku, and so comparing it to his battle with frieza is not accurate, goku needs no further transformation, none of goku's enemies were sloppy fighters like gohan. I argue that goku could have easily defeated super buu. Kid buu according to anime is the strongest unfused buu, and super buu, according to nothing is the strongest buu. Goku was also able to hold his own against cell because cell was using techniques from goku's friends, and opponents from previous battles, all of cell's bags of tricks were not good enough, Goku knows how gohan fights, whereas goku is constantly learning new techniques.  If the battle lasts long goku is finished, but goku will know that, and so will likely go all out as it starts. "
No it has not, it has been decided generally because more users believe that Gohan would win. I never said Goku was faster than Cell, you did right now. There was a very good chance at Super Buu killing them if they hadn't fused it was clearly implied. Demon King Piccolo's power was not as different as Gohan's power is compared to Goku's, I never said skill is completely useless but it won't matter when Goku faces someone who far eclipses his power. A warp kamehameha wouldn't easily do the trick, you haven't proven it will, if it would do the trick it should have done the trick with Cell who was equal to Goku in power in his Full Powered Super Saiyan form with his only advantage being limitless stamina. I didn't use the Frieza battle. When Gohan's full potential was unlocked by Elder Kai his power along with his fighting skill was replenished. There is no evidence that Goku could have easily defeated Super Buu, wrong the anime is not canon because in the manga it doesn't state that Kid Buu is the strongest non fused Majin Buu incarnation, it states that it is the purest and most dangerous not the most powerful. Super Buu is the most powerful non fused Buu because of feats of power. No it was clearly shown that Goku and Cell were equal in terms of power with the only advantage Cell had would be regeneration and stamina. Goku has never seen Ultimate Gohan fight, Ultimate Gohan fights very differently from his past selves. Goku is not constantly learning new techniques, Goku is constantly increasing his power, Goku learns new techniques here and then not all the time. No Goku going all out will not win him the battle, if anything Gohan knows that SSJ3 doesn't last long and would likely use it to his advantage and since he is more powerful than Goku and doesn't suffer from massive ki consumption he will win.  "
Kid buu is clearly stronger than superbuu, it was clearly stated by supreme kai, super buu could not even handle gotenjks, and so it was obvious that gohan would wipe the floor with super buu. Gohan can not regenerate like cell, goku aimed the blast at cell's upper body because he knew that piccolo could not regenerate unless his head is intact, and so he thought that it would kill cell. Cell was faster than goku, and so goku was on the defensive alot, he had to rely on his skill to even the battle. peace. "
Kid Buu is not clearly stronger than Super Buu not at all, Supreme Kai stated that Kid Buu was the purest and most dangerous form of the Buu's also the most feared but nothing about being the most powerful non-fused Buu incarnation, that was in the anime and not the manga so it isn't canon. It doesn't matter if Gohan cannot regenerate like Cell, Cell allowed himself to be struck by Goku's attacks during certain times to test his durability and endurance. Cell was not that much faster than Goku if anything he was slightly faster, Goku used the instant transmission only because he was later overwhelmed by Cell's speed and used it to counter it and no in terms of power Full Powered Super Saiyan Goku was exceptionally equal to Cell with the only advantage being regeneration, stamina and a slight speed disadvantage. Peace. "
The canon excuse may work in comic-vine but not here, cell did not allow anything, where did you base that on, I hope not on the part where they used slow motion to show cell's expression. he tested his endurance on nobody, not even against vegeta, he did not have a clue. Cell had more stamina, power and was slightly more powerful in every way. Gohan is not as skillful as cell, what good is power without skill. Goku can fight with gohan, and no matter the outcome it would be a good fight. The warp kamehameha would work on gohan that much I am sure, but I still think that it is not set in stone. "
No canon does not apply. It is not canon because it did not occur in the manga ergo it is not in direct continuity with the manga so yes it does apply whether you accept it or not. Using non canon examples will not aid you. I did not say anything about Cell allowing anything, I don't know where you heard that but I never stated Cell allowing anything. Cell deliberately let Vegeta hit him with the Final Flash possibly in an attempt to test his new body or plain arrogance either way he did not think twice until mere seconds before the blast struck him he decided to dodge it but only managed to move slightly away from it. Perfect Cell is clearly equal to Goku in terms of power it can be seen if one carefully observes their battle. Gohan is not as skillful as Cell? Please when has Cell every displayed skill against Goku, Cell uses power not skill, Cell has the techniques of other Z Fighters and warriors not their skill. No Super Saiyan 3 Goku spends too much time on massive ki consumption and he is functionally weaker than Gohan so there is no way he can win. The warp kamehameha will not work on Gohan, it is not an instant kill move, it is a combination that would drain Super Saiyan 3 Goku terribly. 
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