Super Saiyan 3 Goku vs Ultimate/Mystic Gohan

Topic started by Newdeath on April 8, 2009. Last post by danzi97 1 year, 8 months ago.
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1

I think that goku could win, because gohan is more powerful, but not greatly more powerful, goku has better techniques including kaioken.
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Actually Gohan was a lot stronger and he didn't have to worry about his energy burning off quickly. Goku's skills might only be a touch better than Gohan's, but that's all. Gohan has been trained by both Piccolo and Goku, and then help from the Supreme Kai. When Gohan is actually serious he does better than Goku.
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1

Gohan did not do proper training with supreme kai, swords are not a part of the fight, gohan has forgotten the majority of his training, his skill is not near goku's level, gohan has endurance advantage but goku has instant transmission to end it quickly. Kid buu was faster than goku had unlimited energy, but goku had the ki to destroy him. Goku knows more than gohan would ever know, in fact, he has forgotten more than gohan would ever know (LOL Joking), but seriously gohan was not alot stronger.
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
All of Gohan's training came back after his power up. Gohan is much stronger than Goku now and IT doesn't mean anything really. It may have worked on Cell, but it won't work on Gohan. Also, the idea that Goku had enough power to beat Kid Buu was never proven. It was just a hyperbole statement made by Goku to make Vegeta feel better. Goku would've been beaten by Super Buu (pre-absorption). Gohan was kicking his ass effortlessly.
 
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1
@ReiKai said:
"All of Gohan's training came back after his power up. Gohan is much stronger than Goku now and IT doesn't mean anything really. It may have worked on Cell, but it won't work on Gohan. Also, the idea that Goku had enough power to beat Kid Buu was never proven. It was just a hyperbole statement made by Goku to make Vegeta feel better. Goku would've been beaten by Super Buu (pre-absorption). Gohan was kicking his ass effortlessly.
 
"

Lol, that is why he could not match Picollo's skills, Gohan is powerful I will give you that, but instant transmission would work on gohan do you know how fast it is, and in fact goku could fight whilst using it, why he does not do that always, it would be a bad story.
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Goku used it once in battle against Cell. It's a teleporting move. He never used it on Kid Buu, because Buu could do it too. Also, you have nothing to support the idea that IT gives Goku a victory. After the Gotenks Fusion ended within Super Buu and Piccolo became the dominating force for the power up, Goku stated that Gohan could finish him easily and they wouldn't have to merge. Goku still couldn't beat Buu himself in that form. And you forget IT is not an insta-kill move. He combined it with his Kamehameha as a desperation move. Just using IT in itself does nothing in a fight and he can't do it in rapid succession.  Even Cell noticed where Goku had reappeared before the blast was fired.
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1
@ReiKai said:
"Goku used it once in battle against Cell. It's a teleporting move. He never used it on Kid Buu, because Buu could do it too. Also, you have nothing to support the idea that IT gives Goku a victory. After the Gotenks Fusion ended within Super Buu and Piccolo became the dominating force for the power up, Goku stated that Gohan could finish him easily and they wouldn't have to merge. Goku still couldn't beat Buu himself in that form. And you forget IT is not an insta-kill move. He combined it with his Kamehameha as a desperation move. Just using IT in itself does nothing in a fight and he can't do it in rapid succession.  Even Cell noticed where Goku had reappeared before the blast was fired. "

He did it against cooler, and so I don't know what you are talking about.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@Supercool99 said:

" I think that goku could win, because gohan is more powerful, but not greatly more powerful, goku has better techniques including kaioken. "

Well the Kaioken won't help Goku in this battle because Goku cannot use the Kaioken while in Super Saiyan 3, the massive ki consumption it would have would completely drain Goku's energy rendering him severely weaken as there was a period where he attempted to use the Kaioken whilst in his Super Saiyan form however could only sustain it for minutes or it would have drained his energy. Instant Transmission would not aid Goku that much and it is not a technique he could use to instantly defeat Gohan, he used it against  Cell and he could not simply finish him off as he combined the IT with his kamehameha when he used it against Cell, I recall Cell noticing Goku reappearing seconds before the blast was launched and it doesn't matter if he did it against Cooler because Dragon Ball movies are not canon.
Post by JThree47693 (1,081 posts) See mini bio Level 5

Like I said, fighting skills in DBZ mean jack squat. Frieza was owning Goku, and Goku was the better combatant. Its whoever has the higher powerlevel. Thats why everytime Goku trains, he trains to raise his powerlevel, not his fighting skills. And everyone in DBZ fights the same anyway, but thats besides the point. Ultimate Gohan was stronger than SSJ3 Goku, therefore, he wins. Plain and simple.
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Cooler movie is non-canon. You can't use that instance.
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1
@Newdeath said:
"@Supercool99 said:

" I think that goku could win, because gohan is more powerful, but not greatly more powerful, goku has better techniques including kaioken. "

Well the Kaioken won't help Goku in this battle because Goku cannot use the Kaioken while in Super Saiyan 3, the massive ki consumption it would have would completely drain Goku's energy rendering him severely weaken as there was a period where he attempted to use the Kaioken whilst in his Super Saiyan form however could only sustain it for minutes or it would have drained his energy. Instant Transmission would not aid Goku that much and it is not a technique he could use to instantly defeat Gohan, he used it against  Cell and he could not simply finish him off as he combined the IT with his kamehameha when he used it against Cell, I recall Cell noticing Goku reappearing seconds before the blast was launched and it doesn't matter if he did it against Cooler because Dragon Ball movies are not canon. "

This whole thread is non-canon, anime is not truly canon, goku was not there for seconds, it was a dramatic slow doqwn just to see cell's expression. 
You are right about the kaioken, but you guys are acting as if gohan is above goku, like he was in the cell saga, aqnd that just is not the case, he is alot closer to goku than you think, and that is why fighting skills do mean squat.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19

He is very much above Goku's power Supercool. You seem to favor Goku in virtually every thread he is in even in matches he clearly loses. Goku would lose for two main reasons: 1. His Super Saiyan 3 form depends too much on the usage and consumption of ki that he will not be able to sustain the form for long 2. He is weaker than Gohan. Take in to account that when Goku freed Gohan, Goten and the rest from Super Buu he stated that if he fought Super Buu he would definetly be killed however Gohan easily dominated Super Buu with no effort. Goku's power would deplete as the fight continues and Gohan's power would remain, Goku's fighting skill means nothing. Frieza was more powerful than Goku but Goku was the superior fighter however he was still thrashed around. Gohan wins his power is greater than Goku's and Goku's energy would eventually deplete rendering him in a completely weakened state. Like Kid Buu, Kid Buu was as powerful as Super Saiyan 3 Goku and fought him to a standstill until Goku reverted back to his normal form and was too weak to fight and needed Vegeta to buy him time or else he would have been killed however in this battle the odds are different: Gohan is not equal to Goku but more powerful and there is nobody to buy Goku time when he is weakened so that he may regain his energy. Gohan wins.
Post by JThree47693 (1,081 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@Supercool99 said:
"@Newdeath said:
"@Supercool99 said:

" I think that goku could win, because gohan is more powerful, but not greatly more powerful, goku has better techniques including kaioken. "

Well the Kaioken won't help Goku in this battle because Goku cannot use the Kaioken while in Super Saiyan 3, the massive ki consumption it would have would completely drain Goku's energy rendering him severely weaken as there was a period where he attempted to use the Kaioken whilst in his Super Saiyan form however could only sustain it for minutes or it would have drained his energy. Instant Transmission would not aid Goku that much and it is not a technique he could use to instantly defeat Gohan, he used it against  Cell and he could not simply finish him off as he combined the IT with his kamehameha when he used it against Cell, I recall Cell noticing Goku reappearing seconds before the blast was launched and it doesn't matter if he did it against Cooler because Dragon Ball movies are not canon. "
This whole thread is non-canon, anime is not truly canon, goku was not there for seconds, it was a dramatic slow doqwn just to see cell's expression. You are right about the kaioken, but you guys are acting as if gohan is above goku, like he was in the cell saga, aqnd that just is not the case, he is alot closer to goku than you think, and that is why fighting skills do mean squat. "

No, fighting skills dont mean squat. Goku was a better fighter then Frieza and got murked, why, because Frieza was stronger. Gohan is stronger than Goku, and would rip him a new one.
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1
@Newdeath said:
"He is very much above Goku's power Supercool. You seem to favor Goku in virtually every thread he is in even in matches he clearly loses. Goku would lose for two main reasons: 1. His Super Saiyan 3 form depends too much on the usage and consumption of ki that he will not be able to sustain the form for long 2. He is weaker than Gohan. Take in to account that when Goku freed Gohan, Goten and the rest from Super Buu he stated that if he fought Super Buu he would definetly be killed however Gohan easily dominated Super Buu with no effort. Goku's power would deplete as the fight continues and Gohan's power would remain, Goku's fighting skill means nothing. Frieza was more powerful than Goku but Goku was the superior fighter however he was still thrashed around. Gohan wins his power is greater than Goku's and Goku's energy would eventually deplete rendering him in a completely weakened state. Like Kid Buu, Kid Buu was as powerful as Super Saiyan 3 Goku and fought him to a standstill until Goku reverted back to his normal form and was too weak to fight and needed Vegeta to buy him time or else he would have been killed however in this battle the odds are different: Gohan is not equal to Goku but more powerful and there is nobody to buy Goku time when he is weakened so that he may regain his energy. Gohan wins. "


which makes no sense seeing as kid buu was stated as the strongest buu, goku and vegeta defeat superbuu as ssj 1 in buu's body, disgraceful. Plus he was okay against gotenks absorbed buu. 
Frieza was like 100 times more powerful than goku, gohan was not. Goku was stronger than gotenks who could have killed super buu. Kid buu has limitless energy and no regenerating problems. 
Goku also was not scared of buu at all when the fusion ran out. 
vegeta was not more powerful than fat buu but his skill made it seem like that. 
Goku was not as powerful as pikkon but his skill got him the victory. 
Pikkon was not as powerful as cell but his skill and techniques ensured the victory. 
Gohan was not stronger than android 18 and 17, but his skill helped him 
I could go on, skill is important whether you like it or not. 
Goku knows how to fight those who are stronger than him, gohan was not way stronger than him. Gohan has the advantage of not having to use as much energy. 
Goku has had alot of experience with his ssj3 and so unless we are sticking to majin buu saga he would not have such a problem.

Kid buu only survived because he could regenerate, goku was beating him up to begin with but wasted too much energy, Goku could have destroyed buu, both goku and vegeta said it.

Goku won't need time because experience would play a key role. Goku wins, it is not clearly anything, I don't know what you are trying to say about me, but I don't like it. I don't support blindly. Goku increased his powers alot in ssj3, he fought fat buu, died (time ran out), came back, fought super buu gotenks absorbed, then he fought buuhan, and then he fought super buu inside buu, and then kid buu, his power level would have sky-rocketed and so there is not that big a gap.

You mentioned that goku said he would lose, well you also mentioned that ssj3 requires alot of energy, energy which he did not have after his battle inside buu, he was very tired. Goku also said that kid buu was twice as strong as before, comparing him to super buu.

Post by JThree47693 (1,081 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@Supercool99 said:
"@Newdeath said:
"He is very much above Goku's power Supercool. You seem to favor Goku in virtually every thread he is in even in matches he clearly loses. Goku would lose for two main reasons: 1. His Super Saiyan 3 form depends too much on the usage and consumption of ki that he will not be able to sustain the form for long 2. He is weaker than Gohan. Take in to account that when Goku freed Gohan, Goten and the rest from Super Buu he stated that if he fought Super Buu he would definetly be killed however Gohan easily dominated Super Buu with no effort. Goku's power would deplete as the fight continues and Gohan's power would remain, Goku's fighting skill means nothing. Frieza was more powerful than Goku but Goku was the superior fighter however he was still thrashed around. Gohan wins his power is greater than Goku's and Goku's energy would eventually deplete rendering him in a completely weakened state. Like Kid Buu, Kid Buu was as powerful as Super Saiyan 3 Goku and fought him to a standstill until Goku reverted back to his normal form and was too weak to fight and needed Vegeta to buy him time or else he would have been killed however in this battle the odds are different: Gohan is not equal to Goku but more powerful and there is nobody to buy Goku time when he is weakened so that he may regain his energy. Gohan wins. "


which makes no sense seeing as kid buu was stated as the strongest buu, goku and vegeta defeat superbuu as ssj 1 in buu's body, disgraceful. Plus he was okay against gotenks absorbed buu. 
Frieza was like 100 times more powerful than goku, gohan was not. Goku was stronger than gotenks who could have killed super buu. Kid buu has limitless energy and no regenerating problems. 
Goku also was not scared of buu at all when the fusion ran out. 
vegeta was not more powerful than fat buu but his skill made it seem like that. 
Goku was not as powerful as pikkon but his skill got him the victory. 
Pikkon was not as powerful as cell but his skill and techniques ensured the victory. 
Gohan was not stronger than android 18 and 17, but his skill helped him 
I could go on, skill is important whether you like it or not. 
Goku knows how to fight those who are stronger than him, gohan was not way stronger than him. Gohan has the advantage of not having to use as much energy. 
Goku has had alot of experience with his ssj3 and so unless we are sticking to majin buu saga he would not have such a problem.

Kid buu only survived because he could regenerate, goku was beating him up to begin with but wasted too much energy, Goku could have destroyed buu, both goku and vegeta said it.

Goku won't need time because experience would play a key role. Goku wins, it is not clearly anything, I don't know what you are trying to say about me, but I don't like it. I don't support blindly. Goku increased his powers alot in ssj3, he fought fat buu, died (time ran out), came back, fought super buu gotenks absorbed, then he fought buuhan, and then he fought super buu inside buu, and then kid buu, his power level would have sky-rocketed and so there is not that big a gap.

You mentioned that goku said he would lose, well you also mentioned that ssj3 requires alot of energy, energy which he did not have after his battle inside buu, he was very tired. Goku also said that kid buu was twice as strong as before, comparing him to super buu.

"

No, Super Buu(or Buuhan as som like to call him) was the strongest Buu. Kid Buu was just the most dangerous. Like I said, Gohan rips Goku a new one. You seem to favor Goku in fights he cant win.
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1
@JThree47693 said:
"@Supercool99 said:
"@Newdeath said:
"He is very much above Goku's power Supercool. You seem to favor Goku in virtually every thread he is in even in matches he clearly loses. Goku would lose for two main reasons: 1. His Super Saiyan 3 form depends too much on the usage and consumption of ki that he will not be able to sustain the form for long 2. He is weaker than Gohan. Take in to account that when Goku freed Gohan, Goten and the rest from Super Buu he stated that if he fought Super Buu he would definetly be killed however Gohan easily dominated Super Buu with no effort. Goku's power would deplete as the fight continues and Gohan's power would remain, Goku's fighting skill means nothing. Frieza was more powerful than Goku but Goku was the superior fighter however he was still thrashed around. Gohan wins his power is greater than Goku's and Goku's energy would eventually deplete rendering him in a completely weakened state. Like Kid Buu, Kid Buu was as powerful as Super Saiyan 3 Goku and fought him to a standstill until Goku reverted back to his normal form and was too weak to fight and needed Vegeta to buy him time or else he would have been killed however in this battle the odds are different: Gohan is not equal to Goku but more powerful and there is nobody to buy Goku time when he is weakened so that he may regain his energy. Gohan wins. "


which makes no sense seeing as kid buu was stated as the strongest buu, goku and vegeta defeat superbuu as ssj 1 in buu's body, disgraceful. Plus he was okay against gotenks absorbed buu. 
Frieza was like 100 times more powerful than goku, gohan was not. Goku was stronger than gotenks who could have killed super buu. Kid buu has limitless energy and no regenerating problems. 
Goku also was not scared of buu at all when the fusion ran out. 
vegeta was not more powerful than fat buu but his skill made it seem like that. 
Goku was not as powerful as pikkon but his skill got him the victory. 
Pikkon was not as powerful as cell but his skill and techniques ensured the victory. 
Gohan was not stronger than android 18 and 17, but his skill helped him 
I could go on, skill is important whether you like it or not. 
Goku knows how to fight those who are stronger than him, gohan was not way stronger than him. Gohan has the advantage of not having to use as much energy. 
Goku has had alot of experience with his ssj3 and so unless we are sticking to majin buu saga he would not have such a problem.

Kid buu only survived because he could regenerate, goku was beating him up to begin with but wasted too much energy, Goku could have destroyed buu, both goku and vegeta said it.

Goku won't need time because experience would play a key role. Goku wins, it is not clearly anything, I don't know what you are trying to say about me, but I don't like it. I don't support blindly. Goku increased his powers alot in ssj3, he fought fat buu, died (time ran out), came back, fought super buu gotenks absorbed, then he fought buuhan, and then he fought super buu inside buu, and then kid buu, his power level would have sky-rocketed and so there is not that big a gap.

You mentioned that goku said he would lose, well you also mentioned that ssj3 requires alot of energy, energy which he did not have after his battle inside buu, he was very tired. Goku also said that kid buu was twice as strong as before, comparing him to super buu.

"
No, Super Buu(or Buuhan as som like to call him) was the strongest Buu. Kid Buu was just the most dangerous. Like I said, Gohan rips Goku a new one. You seem to favor Goku in fights he cant win. "

Buuhan was obviosly strongest, than gotenks buu, than kid buu, than way below is superbuu. I seem to favor goku in fights he can win, it is you guys acting as if I am saying goku ssj3 beats nova shenron. Goku can beat Mystic gohan as a ssj3.
Post by Sonata (35,693 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
Goku said himself that hat if they fight Super Buu they were going to die, the same Buu that Gohan was beating the tar out of. Simple math here Gohan>Super Buu>SSJ3 Goku, if that is not true then why did Goku want to fused with Vegeta??
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1
@Sonata said:
"Goku said himself that hat if they fight Super Buu they were going to die, the same Buu that Gohan was beating the tar out of. Simple math here Gohan>Super Buu>SSJ3 Goku, if that is not true then why did Goku want to fused with Vegeta?? "

I already explaied that goku had just fought super buu, and was tired, and so he would not last 2 minutes as a ssj3 because of the strain on his body. 
Goku was not scared of super buu when the fusion ran out, and so they cancel each other out.
Post by Sonata (35,693 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@Supercool99 said:
" @Sonata said:
"Goku said himself that hat if they fight Super Buu they were going to die, the same Buu that Gohan was beating the tar out of. Simple math here Gohan>Super Buu>SSJ3 Goku, if that is not true then why did Goku want to fused with Vegeta?? "
I already explaied that goku had just fought super buu, and was tired, and so he would not last 2 minutes as a ssj3 because of the strain on his body. Goku was not scared of super buu when the fusion ran out, and so they cancel each other out. "
Of Course he wasnt scared of Super Buu when defused Gohan was right there. He did not fight Super Buu when he was freeing the others from the pods, they even had enough time to read Fat Buu's mind to see how they got to his point.
Post by Supercool99 (207 posts) See mini bio Level 1
@Sonata said:
" @Supercool99 said:
" @Sonata said:
"Goku said himself that hat if they fight Super Buu they were going to die, the same Buu that Gohan was beating the tar out of. Simple math here Gohan>Super Buu>SSJ3 Goku, if that is not true then why did Goku want to fused with Vegeta?? "
I already explaied that goku had just fought super buu, and was tired, and so he would not last 2 minutes as a ssj3 because of the strain on his body. Goku was not scared of super buu when the fusion ran out, and so they cancel each other out. "
Of Course he wasnt scared of Super Buu when defused Gohan was right there. He did not fight Super Buu when he was freeing the others from the pods, they even had enough time to read Fat Buu's mind to see how they got to his point. "

Gohan was down and out, he stated that buu was not a threat, he was obviously the only one who could fight buu. Super buu did not want to fight goku, and so he did what he did best, absorb a being. 
Gohan was beaten up and tattered.
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