Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta Vs Broly

Topic started by nishi99 on June 11, 2012. Last post by Sonata 2 years, 6 months ago.
Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@niBBit: Exactly. I've seen some people use the multi-dimension shaking feat in other threads and they don't realise it was non-canon and way out of proportion to Goku's normal feats.

Post by Nessy (48 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Sonata said:

You must be pretty slow, putting Broly in battles outside of DBZ battle because people would go by what has he actually done instead of What's the scouter say about his power level?.

Calling people slow is no way to debate, I see why comicvine has 20x more activity now.

You are basing your argument on feats, but how about the fact that Broly was defeated by a group of Saiyans none of whom were even in the league of a ss2? You choose to think that that is just a plot device? I choose to believe that him destroying a Galaxy is a plot device.

Any maybe you have forgot, but power level is very important in DBZ. Vegito has an outrageously higher power level than Broly, this means that barring that Vegito suffers an aneurysm, he will defeat Broly hands down. DBZ is basically 100% power level and power scaling.

Post by jazmac (115 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Sonata said:

@Nessy said:

@Sonata said:

Technically no one in DBZ can defeat Broly because of his feats, he only loses because of heavy PIS.

Using this logic Broly can defeat Super Janemba and Mystic Buu, and would be able to tie with Super Vegito (whom also never loses).

Based on feats (the main ingredient in a debate anyway) , yes no one in DBZ has demonstrated the destructive ability of Broly. Mystic Buu also didnt even Super Janemba's ability is impressive, but in the end a person with a higher power level was still able to defeat him. Vegito has good durability an resistance feats, but the best thing he destroyed was a mountain. Broly is only "weaker" than these guys is only because of power level and power scaling.

@jazmac said:

@Sonata said:

Technically no one in DBZ can defeat Broly because of his feats, he only loses because of heavy PIS.

By saying that you're basically saying Broly can beat anyone in any anime/comic universe ever.

When was DBZ being represent in every Comic and Manga series. He can be defeat by a person who has similar showing of destructive power. The power level stuff won't blind people so much.

@jazmac said:

How would this help make Broly threads any better? you just said that broly can technically beat anyone in the dbz universe so adding in completely different universes would make it even harder to tell who would win....

You must be pretty slow, putting Broly in battles outside of DBZ battle because people would go by what has he actually done instead of What's the scouter say about his power level?.

You know someone is clutching at straws when they reduce themselves to petty insults kind of surprising from a moderator tbh, but what your saying is that vegito in battles outside of dbz isn't capable of feats such as destroying a planet?? when vegeta in the first saga destroys one with ease, I dare you to make a thread with vegito and somebody outside of the dbz universe and state that vegito is only capable of destroying a mountain...I'm wondering how many people would agree with you? Also just to clarify that whole destroying a galaxy thing...how do we even know the size of a galaxy in dbz is the same as one in our universe or any other anime universe? for all we know it could be solar system size.

Post by Sonata (35,693 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@Nessy: Broly had to be defeated someway or they would have lost instant. Goku or any of the others never demonstrated that level of power, so they had to give Goku an edge, which was in this case absorbing the others energies. I am basing my argument on feats because that is how you debate most of the time. Broly as a baby tanked the destruction of planet vegeta, but somehow was defeated by less than a planet busting attack from Goku. It is an obvious plot-device right there Broly in second movie had to be defeated by 2 SS2's a SS1 in Goten and the sun to put Broly away for good. Know Power levels are important to DBZ, that is why Broly shouldn't be used in debates with DBZ characters. He has far better Feats than most of the other characters combined, but since his power level is not at a certain power level he loses. 
Post by Sonata (35,693 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@jazmac: I know what Vegito is capable of he is a planet buster, based on power-scalling, but on panel he has never done that. That is what I am saying.
Post by Nessy (48 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@ohgodwhy said:

^^ Be honest did you make two accounts?

Nope, I'm a long time poster on comicvine.

@Sonata said:

@Nessy: Broly had to be defeated someway or they would have lost instant. Goku or any of the others never demonstrated that level of power, so they had to give Goku an edge, which was in this case absorbing the others energies. I am basing my argument on feats because that is how you debate most of the time. Broly as a baby tanked the destruction of planet vegeta, but somehow was defeated by less than a planet busting attack from Goku. It is an obvious plot-device right there Broly in second movie had to be defeated by 2 SS2's a SS1 in Goten and the sun to put Broly away for good. Know Power levels are important to DBZ, that is why Broly shouldn't be used in debates with DBZ characters. He has far better Feats than most of the other characters combined, but since his power level is not at a certain power level he loses.

How do you know that it wasn't a planet busting attack?

How do you know that Goku is less durable than a Galaxy?

Post by Sonata (35,693 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@Nessy: Goku is not that durable because he was panicking when Kid Buu was tossing around Planet Busting attacks. How did I know it wasn't a planet busting attack, because a planet didnt blow up.
Post by Nessy (48 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Sonata said:

@Nessy: Goku is not that durable because he was panicking when Kid Buu was tossing around Planet Busting attacks. How did I know it wasn't a planet busting attack, because a planet didnt blow up.

It didn't hit the planet, that's why.

Goku used an attack that was actually stated as being able to destroy the planet vs Cell, and the planet didn't blow up.

Post by jazmac (115 posts) See mini bio Level 9

He was panicking because he didn't want earth to be destroyed ofc and also he can't breath in space, not because he isn't durable and he wasn't tossing around planet busting attacks? he was specifically trying to destroy the planet, not attack goku...and a planet didn't blow up because it wasn't aimed at the planet...still doesn't prove it wasn't a planet busting attack

Post by Sonata (35,693 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator
@Nessy: That was a different attack used, if they were similar you would have something.
Post by niBBit (664 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Sonata: You should rewatch the movie Goku was at SSJ not SSJ2.

EDIT: If you don't believe me i can post pictures of Goku how he appears in the movie. SSJ2 has 1 hair sticking out and the rest of the hair stands way up, SSJ1 on the other hand has more hair hanging on the front...maybe i'm explaining it weird but like i said i can post pictures or you yourself can go and do an google search.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,084 posts) See mini bio Level 15

You guys are way off topic Broly wins.

Post by jazmac (115 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Sonata: So you are saying that kamehameha's won't always destroy a planet, but on the other hand any normal energy attack the can destroy a planet will ALWAYS destroy a planet, even if it doesn't connect with a planet?

The attack that defeats Broly could easily of been a planet busting attack, just because a planet didn't blow up only means that it didn't connect with the planet properly. By your logic of "He was defeated by a non-planet busting attack" means that everytime an even more powerful being is defeated, they are always defeated by non-planet busting attacks, since a planet doesn't blow up.

To sum up, there is no evidence that the attack that takes down Broly isn't enough to take out a planet.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,084 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@jazmac: lol Why does it matter if it did have the power to destroy the planet? Not a very solid rebuttal.

Post by valfranx (195 posts) See mini bio Level 10

In another interview akira says that broly can destroy a planet with a punch:

Broly was born with a powerlevel of 10,000. Here he is surviving a planet explosion only a few ours after being born after being stabbed in the stomach

Destroying the aliens homeplanet just for lulz

Broly destroying an entire 99% of galaxy in a few seconds in his second weakest form while having his powers restrected

Then Goku survive in space, in this parallel universe.

Another example is broly.

put in the movie 8, Goku travels to the south quadrant to see if something was left in the galaxy that was destroyed in the south quadrant, then confirms that broly destroyed a galaxy, then goku can actually survive in space, in the movies.

Speaking on this topic destruction of stars, I have a theory of how broly destroyed a galaxy. few know more in the center of the galaxy is the largest concentration of stars in a galaxy, begin destroying the stars on center, and will start a chain reaction that will cause a destruction of much of the galaxy, and what was left was to destroy broly and to prove my theory. the father of broly, warn for vegeta that the broly, was devastating what’s left of the galaxy, and then we learned that the broly’s father had a plan, the destruction of galaxy was for attract vegeta and z fighters, the father of broly, give a order for broly, stop the destruction of the galaxy, and leave only two planets, then brought it to the new planet vegeta vegeta. More anyway that was left was destroyed.

And as we see the galaxy being destroyed in the center, confirms my theory that broly destroyed the stars on the galactic center.

This is a weaker version of broly.

The see broly more powerful, the of gaming, destroy the universe.

Broly (and as you can see, Cooler's power level was 470 Million)

It also tells us that the universe of games broly is the non-fused character more powerful, more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, SSJ3 gotenhks, Janemba and buuhan together. So in dragon ball raging blast broly SSJ3, should be much more powerful, since SSJ3 multiplies the power of 400x. 400 x 1,400,000,000=560 000 000 000

Conclusion, power scaling of games and movies are different from the anime / manga / dbo.

So much so that the fourth movie 4, Goku and Krillin that were able to destroy a dwarf star the size of the moon that was heading toward the earth, said they would not destroy, because the explosion would destroy the earth, but said that could change the orbit of the star, and made on movie, in the same film as goku could turn into pre-ssj.

in Movie 5, goku ssj also showed the ability to destroy a star, not destroyed by the same motive in the fourth movie.

Is broly ssj without becoming, was capable of destroying a galaxy at the center, where the center of the galaxy has the largest concentration of stars in a galaxy, start destroying the star on center, who will start a chain reaction that will destroy a good part of the galaxy, and how to destroy the core of a planet, destroy it and you will destroy the entire planet.

And as the games are also a parallel universe to the movies, this universe is broly more powerful than the broly movies, because neither the broly movies was able to match with goku SSJ3.

More on games broly fight of equal terms with gogeta for some time.

Feats of broly on games are much more impressive than those of the films.

and seeing how he is stronger than gogeta shaped base and perhaps equal to gogeta ssj1, which is enough to beat guys at universal level as buuhan and Janemba easily.

then we come to the conclusion that games broly is stronger than their versions of the films.

picking up the scaling power of games and confronting with anime / movie will arrive at this result.

gogeta ssj2>>>>>>>>broly>>>>>>>Goku ssj3>>>>Hirudegarn>>>>>janemba>>>>>>ssj3 goku>>>buuhan>>>Buugotenks>>>>kidbuu=ssj3 goku=gohan mystic=ssj3 gotenks>>>>>SuperBuu>>>Fatbuu>>>goku ssj2 FP(Fullpower)=vegeta ssj2 fp>>>>>Broly M10>>>Gohan ssj2=Dabura=SPC>>>>Hatchiyack>>>Broly>>>PC=goku ssj1

Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Some of those are a bit off. For instance, that statement concerning Broly's PL would be his PL while in LSSJ form, not his base PL. And SS3 itself is 400x the users Base Power Level, not Current PL. It doesn't actually say what Brolly's PL was in base form, the same with Cooler. And remember, SS3 is not the same as LSS3. There's also the point that Brolly's listed PL is only accurate to a certain point as, has been noted in both Movie and Games, that Brolly's power continues to increase while in LSSJ form.
 
Still, Feats wise, Brolly outshines the entire DBU, games and extra series. No matter what the Numbers say, no one has the same Feats that he does. I believe Vegeta in the TFS abridged said it best.
  
Post by valfranx (195 posts) See mini bio Level 10

vegeta so that said several times that goku had not idea who was fighting and said the that the power of broly was infinite, broly also stated that his energy and infinite, ie the stamina of broly has not has limits, similar to androids 17 and 18 , which also has no limits on your stamina, the difference is that broly is a hulk, when more will stamina getting stronger, this is due to its Zenkai not stop to increase, or even without training, broly if makes stronger, and make haver broly be angry, hate it increases his power.

Look at the gifs I'm posting:

Ssj Broly taking a kick from Ussj Vegeta and not even fazing him

Goku and Gohan going fpssj. Trunks' jacket is ripped off. Since that never happened in his ssj form he clearly is going ussj

Pwning Goku, Gohan, and Trunks

pwning ussj Trunks

Broly 1 hit ko’s a ussj Vegeta

Broly using Goku as a trampoline

Maybe it’ll make a difference if Piccolo joins in

Pwning FpssjGohan in only 2 hits

Taking a full power kamehameha point blank. We know you need a powerlevel of at least 18,000 to destroy a planet. Goku’s powerlevel is far beyond 150,000,000.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

SSJ2 Gohan took Perfect Cell out of the fight with two hits. He punched him once and Cell went backwards, he punched him again and Cell couldn't move after. He was just a quivering mess and looked like he wanted to cry. He punched Cell so hard he made him vomit a whole android out.

Please bear in mind this was after Cell had powered up to his max and was easily a lot more powerful than a FPSSJ.
Please bear in mind this was after Cell had powered up to his max and was easily a lot more powerful than a FPSSJ.

In the above 3 images you can see that each Cell Jr was equivalent to a USSJ and was going blow to blow against Vegeta and Trunks. SSJ2 Gohan destroyed each Cell Jr with minimal effort which pretty much shows he could have killed Vegeta or Trunks in one hit each.

The point I'm trying to make is that you can't take someone who beating up a couple of SSJs and make him the strongest character in the entire series because even SSJ2 Gohan was able to replicate similar, if not more impressive fighting feats. Bearing in mind that a SSJ3 is 4x stronger than a SSJ2, how can it even be conceivable that Broly is the most powerful character in the series.

So I hope you can understand why we Broly naysayers think Broly is massively overestimated. I would have a far easier time believing his strength if he was introduced during Buu Saga and was fighting a SSJ2 Goku, Gohan and Vegeta, then I could agree and say he's easily one of the most powerful DBZ characters in the series but the fact of the matter is his feats were no more impressive than SSJ2 Gohan's.

We have no idea how he destroyed this galaxy, or over what time period and I still maintain the feat is a massive outlier compared to everything else he has shown and, just like every other DBZ movie villain, is just a big over exaggeration of his power at the start of the film to make him look scary.

Post by 100Rings (114 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@ohgodwhy: he did...and he won...its all in the movie.

Post by 100Rings (114 posts) See mini bio Level 9

broly...easily.

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