Battles

@EganTheVile1 said:

" @Hellos:  You seem to just be dismissing facts about Goku without offering proof they are wrong, a lot of the things you are dismissing are official facts about the character "

Exactly. Some of your (Hellos's) arguments are valid but you seem too biased against DBZ. You are even ignoring canon and official material along with the reasonable speculation.

@Hellos said:

 
I'm sure you have a bunch of scans to prove this. Hyperboarama! 
 

Hyperborea has nothing to do with this, were not discussing lovecraft.   
 

 

1 "Goku is an expert fighter, able to sense opponents moves," 

 
LOLOLOL. 
 

 

2 ", and in base is more powerful than buu-who in the anime destroyed a galaxy" 

 
You keep pulling feats from Buu that are from a flash back that directly contradict the manga. We aren't even shown how it was done, much less Buu actually doing it infront of us.  
In his actual fight with Goku, he didn't even toss out planet busters other than to pop the Earth and that had the entire cast running for their lives.
 

1 Uh, ok. 
2  GT is not DB manga, its a continuation of the anime. Buu destroyed a galaxy, and this supports the manga statements and other anime feat saying he can destroy the universe.
 

Not powerful enough to over ride being frozen in Ice or getting beat up by punches that couldn't even toss him through a building. 
  

It actually did over ride being frozen in ice, thats were the "no move works twice" comes from.  
Goku has punched a being across a world, has Nova? 
And heralds aren't strong enough to break arm bars from peak human or dodge the rhino, so its a mute point. 
 

Yeah thats why Goku immediately pulls his fist away to blow on it. Nova could gate Goku into the sun and it would kill him easily, while Nova can fly though Neutron Stars.
 
 

 
Shame we don't know a damn thing about Ki power levels to base what that means. 

I find it funny you don't know what it means, you troll DB enough that you should. 
The higher the ki, the higher the destructive ability.   
 


 
 
 
Really, Goku need only point and Nova would explode.  
A planet-star level herald like Nova is going to get beat to a bloody pulp fighting a ssj4. There's really nothing Nova can do here. Goku is a far far faster fighter, has instant attack methods, has fired beams hundred+ FTL speeds,  is much more powerful (when Nova can destroy a dimension or wreck a dude who was stated as being a solar system buster, then you can make a case for him, until then all the sarcasm in the world won't help you), more skilled, and hits harder.   
 
Goku could use the Ryu Ken and punch Nova's head off, use the instant kamehameha and obliterate Nova, use instant kienzan and lob Nova's head off, or use internal kiai waves and literally explode Nova. Whats Nova gonna do? He's gonna do what he does in every fight, charge in and throw a few seemingly slow hay makers (because lets face it, when any Marvel hero fights 99 percent of the time there fighting at speeds not faster than the eye can see) or fire a single beam. Goku can easily dodge this and lay the martial arts beatdown. 

@SSJjanemba said:

" @taichokage: he's not biased towards dbz. he hates it "

It does seem that way.

@EganTheVile1: sorry to bother you , but where is the destroyed solar system ??  and if you think that omega shen ron has  the power to destroy a solar system , (like cell) . sorry but i haven't watched that . killing a solar system buster  doesn't make you one.and the power of omega shen ron hasn't proven to do that .  this is  just like saying that a nerd who kills  with a revolver  a very well prepared soldier  is a soldier as well. is that true? i don't think so. and judging by that henkidama , seriously if that was the max power of goku , which looks like, that means he can't destroy a solar system ,because that power didn't even  destroy the earth. it's not about power scaling , this is about facts , and that's a real fact as you can see. 
 
and no, goku can't win ,he dies horribly. 
 
 

"Goku has the durability to tank planetbusting attacks from Yi Xing Long while he was injured and in base. "  

he ran away from the namek planet when frieza destroyed it.
he ran away from the planet earth when buu destroyed it  
 
i don't think so. 
 
 

"Kid Goku toyed with Cell and Freeza, who are both easy planet busters"  

goku almost died when he fought against frieza , if it hadn't been for the death of  krillin,  goku would have died.   and cell beat the hell out of him . goku didn't even beat cell. 
 
 
     

and in base is more powerful than buu-who in the anime destroyed a galaxy" 

 
in his base form goku was afraid of fighting buu , and he needed the power of others to win , if goku had fought buu solo , he would  have died.

@SilverGalford said:

" @EganTheVile1: sorry to bother you , but where is the destroyed solar system ??  and if you think that omega shen ron has  the power to destroy a solar system , (like cell) . sorry but i haven't watched that . killing a solar system buster  doesn't make you one.and the power of omega shen ron hasn't proven to do that .  this is  just like saying that a nerd who kills  with a revolver  a very well prepared soldier  is a soldier as well. is that true? i don't think so. and judging by that henkidama , seriously if that was the max power of goku , which looks like, that means he can't destroy a solar system ,because that power didn't even  destroy the earth. it's not about power scaling , this is about facts , and that's a real fact as you can see. 
 
and no, goku can't win ,he dies horribly. 
 
 

"Goku has the durability to tank planetbusting attacks from Yi Xing Long while he was injured and in base. "  

he ran away from the namek planet when frieza destroyed it.he ran away from the planet earth when buu destroyed it   i don't think so. "

Because Frieza did not attack him directly he attacked the planet itself not Goku. If he hit Goku with it it would have been fine but since he couldn't breathe in space long enough to get to another planet and did not know shunkan ido, that's why he got out of there.
 
As for running away from Buu's attack, yes he did, but that is because Buu (at the time) was genuinely more powerful than Goku. Goku could not out do or over power Buu's attack.

Because Frieza did not attack him directly he attacked the planet itself not Goku. If he hit Goku with it it would have been fine but since he couldn't breathe in space long enough to get to another planet and did not know shunkan ido, that's why he got out of there.   

if he had the durability to tank that power , why did he run away?? it makes no sense .  and if he can't breathe in space , goku stands double zero chances against nova who can do that. 
 

I find it funny you don't know what it means, you troll DB enough that you should. 
The higher the ki, the higher the destructive ability.   

   
this thing about the temperature i talked about before. but nobody seems to understand.  
 
and if that henkidama that goku made  in the final part of that serie was the most powerful tech that goku has ever  made , then he can't beat nova.

@SilverGalford said:

 
 

"Goku has the durability to tank planetbusting attacks from Yi Xing Long while he was injured and in base. "  

he ran away from the namek planet when frieza destroyed it.
he ran away from the planet earth when buu destroyed it  
 
i don't think so. 
 

But he did man, I'm not lying. Yi Xing Long had the DB's knocked out of him, but even still "had the power to easily destroy the planet" and so injured kid goku seeing he was earth's only hope got up and tanked the energy ball.  
     

   this thing about the temperature i talked about before. but nobody seems to understand.   and if that henkidama that goku made  in the final part of that serie was the most powerful tech that goku has ever  made , then he can't beat nova. "

The author said that Genkidama has immeasurable destructive power. 
 

" 

Because Frieza did not attack him directly he attacked the planet itself not Goku. If he hit Goku with it it would have been fine but since he couldn't breathe in space long enough to get to another planet and did not know shunkan ido, that's why he got out of there.   

if he had the durability to tank that power , why did he run away?? it makes no sense .  and if he can't breathe in space , goku stands double zero chances against nova who can do that. 
 

Goku didn't run away from Freeza, he stayed and fought. 
Majin Buu was simply more powerful than non ssj3 Goku and had the power to kill him.  
But that power is more than enough to destroy the earth, for example, Buu fired a casual blast that was going to destroy the earth, but Vegeta destroyed that blast. Then Buu got serious and charged a much stronger one that goku and vegeta couldn't stop (without going ssj3)

Goku didn't run away from Freeza, he stayed and fought.   

i was talking about the planet explosion , not frieza   .
 

The author said that Genkidama has immeasurable destructive power.   

a power that didn't destroy  the earth ,  but only killed characters who are suppousedly "universe busters". the sun can melt away  the earth in seconds. the henkidama has never done that .

@SilverGalford: Well you gotta understand the author. Akira Toriyama was a gag manga writer. Its not like in Marvel/DC where they go into huge in depth explanations for everything. Toriyama kinda just go's with the flow, and if he says something it can usually be taken at face value. 
 
Check the respect thread of his other famous manga, Dr. Slump, to see what I mean about his style.  
http://www.animevice.com/forums/general-discussion/1/dr-slump-respect-thread/324890/

Toriyama kinda just go's with the flow, and if he says something it can usually be taken at face value.   

 but the facts, what i have watched on the anime,  show me something different . 

@SilverGalford: What has? I didn't make up anything I said, what part don't you believe? I can find scans/vids of it. 

@hitsusatsu11 said:

"Hyperborea has nothing to do with this, were not discussing lovecraft.   " 

 
I missed the scans of Cell's Solay System bustery.
 

"GT is not DB manga, its a continuation of the anime. Buu destroyed a galaxy, and this supports the manga statements and other anime feat saying he can destroy the universe." 
 
Then does that mean we can include the absurdly long charge up times for signature attacks? 
 
 

"It actually did over ride being frozen in ice, thats were the "no move works twice" comes from.  " 

 
Thin layer of ice = Goku can't move. Superman could immobilize SSJ4 Goku.

"Goku has punched a being across a world, has Nova? " 

 
He got plowed into the planet from orbit  around Galactus and didn't even get a scratch when the impact caused an explosion.

"And heralds aren't strong enough to break arm bars from peak human or dodge the rhino, so its a mute point. " 

 
That's true, for some reason Norrin can !@#$% slap the Hulk, yet when a writer, McDuffie, who favors African American Super Heroes, mysteriously gave Norrin a pair of lungs and could be armbared from someone he shouldn't even feel. 
He was trying to talk the rhino out of freeing animals from the Zoo and effortlessly held him by the horn after knocking him right out of the water back into the Zoo.
 
   "" 
 
You do realize the Sun's surface temperature is the tip of the iceberg right? If 6000 degrees is burning him, the actual sun itself will turn him to ash instantly.  
 

"I find it funny you don't know what it means, you troll DB enough that you should. 
The higher the ki, the higher the destructive ability. " 

 
How much higher? Outside "higher power level / ki = more powerful" the numbers mean nothing when we don't have a clue how much more powerful they become with said numbers under their belt. 
But hey I've posted enough in these threads with the same GAPING HOLE IN YOUR CRAZY DBZ WANKERY LOGIC that you know this by now. 
 
In the end all you have is hyperbole and a main character that hasn't even busted a planet and spends his carrier running from planet busters. 
Hilarious stuff really.
 

"Really, Goku need only point and Nova would explode.  " 

 
He's never done that on panel and Nova would be a tad more tricky to kill than that. But I'm sure while sitting next to your Goku poster, DBZ action figures on your counter, with a pile of fanfics of Goku fighting the Silver Surfer and winning by powering up each one ending with young Saiyan Hitsu comming in to fuse with him, he can glare and make the TOAA explode. 
 

"A planet-star level herald like Nova is going to get beat to a bloody pulp fighting a ssj4. " 

 
He's going to have to hit harder than he did against Omega, like hard enough to punch nova through a building. 
 

"There's really nothing Nova can do here. " 

 
Paralyze him, blast him, BFR him into the sun, beat him to death with his bare hands, plow through him at FTL speeds. 
 

"Goku is a far far faster fighter," 

 
Lol. 
 

" has instant attack methods," 

 
KAAA.... MEEEEEEE.... HAAAAAAA.... MEEEEEEE...... HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!! 
 

"has fired beams hundred+ FTL speeds,  is much more powerful (when Nova can destroy a dimension or wreck a dude who was stated as being a solar system buster, then you can make a case for him, until then all the sarcasm in the world won't help you), more skilled, and hits harder.   " 

 
Thats really all you have, hyperbole and the "DIMENZION BUSTZING" neither you have the evidence to prove.  
Nova isn't popping dimensions, neither could goku if you popped him into Marvel. 
 

"Goku could use the Ryu Ken and punch Nova's head off," 

 
Nope lol. 
 

" use the instant kamehameha and obliterate Nova," 

 
No again. 
 

"use instant kienzan and lob Nova's head off, " 

 
Nope. 
 
"or use internal kiai waves and literally explode Nova. " 
 
He's never done this before in any of his fights, he's either too stupid to implement it or he can't do it. 
Either way whats the point of arguing this? You think he can do the same to Norrin and thats why these arguments are just pointlessly stupid. 
 

"Whats Nova gonna do? " 

 
Already said what he would do. 
 

"He's gonna do what he does in every fight, charge in and throw a few seemingly slow hay makers (because lets face it, when any Marvel hero fights 99 percent of the time there fighting at speeds not faster than the eye can see) or fire a single beam. " 

 
Did you even read annihilation? He was handling entire fleets on his own and leading a damn army to fight the Annihilation Wave.
 

"Goku can easily dodge this and lay the martial arts beatdown.    " 

 
Lol. Your such a fanboy it's hilarious.

@EganTheVile1 said:

" @Hellos:  You seem to just be dismissing facts about Goku without offering proof they are wrong, a lot of the things you are dismissing are official facts about the character "

Point out the "facts" so I can dismiss them to your face, because I'm no fan of guessing games of what are "the facts" about this character. 
Most of the !@#$ here is hyperbole or complete nonsense, like trying to compare dimensions in DBGT(empty voids of nothing) to Marvel's (realms or completely different universes) to having be a solar system buster to harm Goku when fists that can't pound him through a building regularly do in GT. 
 
GT is inconsistent as hell.