SS4 Gogeta vs Saint Seiya

Topic started by Kinasin on Oct. 29, 2010. Last post by TheVectorPrime 1 year, 11 months ago.
Post by Kurohige (3,756 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@eddz99: Didn't Goku teleport there? If it was destroyed how did he go there with planets and stars still around? Also there is no feats of 50x light-speed/

Post by ROBOT6661 (358 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@Kurohige said:

@ROBOT6661: Well they are easily multi galaxy busting, as dimension busting (At least Taurus when he uses he light-speed punch and some others)

@eddz99: They are not 50x light speed though and not multi-universe busting.

tbh i don't see any gold saint busting a planet, except maybe saga if you believe the gallaxian explosion thing, the light speed thing is obvious they say it in the manga, seen them crossing gallaxies if i remember well but sure as hell i don't see seiya being a gallaxy buster or even a planet buster those type of things can only be done by the 4 main gods in SS

Post by 5th (1,464 posts) See mini bio Level 10
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@ROBOT6661: Gold Saints are well above planet or stars, in fact, they're more focus on using their haxs than raw force.

Gold Saints could punch at the speed of light, that puts them above any planet buster including Goku

And there HAXS are what clear the day, also the fact that their attacks focus over atomic destruction

Libra's battle weapons were noted to all being capable of individually destroying a star

They could blitz Goku before he even has a chance to react or blink

Post by ROBOT6661 (358 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@5th: no they're not above planets or stars, like i said maybe the gemini twins, but i'm sure as hell that camus, piscis, cancer, aldebaran, scorpio and the others i am forgeting can't planet or star bust by themself

yes they are haxx and fast as hell i know all of this i'm a huge fan of the show

wait blitz goku?? i don't see them so far apart in speed how fast do you think goku is??

Post by 5th (1,464 posts) See mini bio Level 10
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@ROBOT6661: Logically, they are

They've acquired FTL and light speed body movements

In order to move relativistic rate or faster you must have Infinite Kinetic Energy which would mean you would have an infinite mass,

By that logic, the Gold Saints should be capable of destroying earth with just their fists because anything moving near or faster than the speed of light could pierce earth, if not implode earth, in an instant. (On ground, not from outer space)

Also, Gold Saints have MANY FTL feats

Cancer Deathmask overwhelming Shiryu's Rozan Dragon fists despite him already mastering the Seventh Sense (Light Speed), In fact, Deathmask was running circles around a light speed opponent.

Leo's Lightning Plasma is FTL (A billion punches per second)

Scorpio Milo blitzing the Bronzies who were already skilled with the Seventh Sense

Gemini Saga dodging Pegasus Ryu Sei Kei

Hell! The Gold Cloths travelling through Hades' Hyper Dimension in hours.

Virgo Shaka MFTL, handling three other FTL former Gold Saints at the same time

EVEN after the Bronzies had mastered the Seventh Sense, their speed was still inferior to a Gold Saint.

Oh yeah, we can't forget how the Gold Saints were on par with three sealed Titans in Ep G.

Post by ROBOT6661 (358 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@5th:No first of all i never said they weren't fast so i don't know why are you telling me all this stuff that i allready know

second, real world logic (well real world theory) =/= fiction. the whole infinite mass thing doesn't work in all fiction the same way, in comics it does Ex. superman they even explain this theory but SS doesn't work the same way, they never explain that the saints have the same effect, from what i can remember, also we have to take in account that the gold saints where attacking the bronze saints before they awakened the 7th sense and get the so called planet durability and where only silver saint level so if it where true, the whole infinite mass thing, they would have died from the first punch let alone the billion per second punches and also later on when the saints dodge this so called infinite mass attacks, if they were true planet busting attacks, they would have destroyed more than pillars, rocks and walls

third, the episode G thing is not canon Kurumada didn't had involvment in the series he just let Okada do whatever he liked, kinda like Toriyama and GT, it also has a lot of inconsistences like the gold saints beating Titans who are the same level as the gods, gods who can one-shot the gold saints, gold saints who had trouble got theire ass kicked and killed by some bronze knights who just awakened theire seventh sense and fodder specters

the only thing that is canon aside from the original manga is Next dimension wich is made by kurumada

Post by 5th (1,464 posts) See mini bio Level 10
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@ROBOT6661: Yeah, they are.

It was pretty clear they were MFTL...

Shiryu had mastered the Seventh Sense and at first was pummeling Deathmask to death with his fists when he got piss over his girlfriend being thrown over a waterfall,

Shiryu proceeded to throw more attacks at Deathmask who'd counter by simply dodging and using his cape, Shiryu even with the seventh sense was still being toyed with by Deathmask.

Leo Aiolia was tossing Seiya despite Seiya's speed already rivaling Taurus Aldebaran's Great Horn (Light Speed attack), not just that but Seiya couldn't even react to lightning plasma and stated the attack to being instant yet he could react to Great Horn which was light speed.

Scorpio Milo was blitzing the bronzies and calling their speed to be slow compared to his (By then, the majority of the Bronze Saints had already mastered the Seventh Sense)

Cygnus Hyoga delivered an impressive blow within a millisecond on Milo who had already delivered the last blow of Antares, Milo who was running pass the Bronzies despite them already mastering the Seventh Sense.

Shiryu failed to react to Excalibur when Shura started playing serious, Shiryu who had already mastered the Seventh Sense

Aries Mu was dodging and reacting to three Former Gold Saints at the same time, he escaped an Excalibur which Shura claimed he could've sliced his head off with if he had intended to kill him.

There's a shit load of more scenarios that show the Gold Saints moving faster than light

Kanon taking Wyvern to a whole different solar system and blowing it apart with a suicide blast

And it's stated from the beginning that Saints focus their attacks on a atomic scale so they wouldn't destroy their surroundings and such, so really if they wanted to they could destroy stars or planets.

Post by ROBOT6661 (358 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@5th: i know all of this, i never said they aren't fast....

no they can't destroy planet or stars LOL, i don't know where you get that "Destroying their surroundings" would mean planet and star busting, i have yet to see someone of the 12 gold saints (who isn't a gemini saint) destroy a planet or star

Post by 5th (1,464 posts) See mini bio Level 10
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@ROBOT6661: If they haven't shown the potency to destroy stars or planets, they are very much capable.

Also Episode G is canon, it's directed by Kuramada but drawn by a different artist

Aries Mu warped an entire dimension away that was populated by stars

Capricorn Shura sliced a planet that was shrunken into a shield powered by dunamis

What do you mean where I get "destroying their surroundings" from? It's stated at the very beginning that Saints focus on destroying the atoms, it's pretty clear their intentions are to not destroy the earth.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,104 posts) See mini bio Level 15
I agree with 5th. I read somewhere their attacks are focused so they attack their enemies with planetary to star force rather than to destroy the planet. Pretty simple when you think about it.
Post by niBBit (664 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@SpeedForceSpider: Can't the same argument be made about DBZ? I've been on a DBZ marathon lately and something got me wondering, Frieza survived being cut in half, depleted most of his energy, blown up by Goku and then ultimatly by the planet and he still lived. Now if Frieza can tank all that stuff then Goku's punches and energy blasts he was unleashing must be enormous because if for example i had that kind of durability (planetary) then you will need planetary power to hurt/beat me. Goku's blasts in the fight against Frieza however sometimes barely destroyed a small island and if we have a being who can tank planetary explosions like nothing... i'm sorry but your punches are not going to effect such a being.

Lets say you are in your house and a freaking nuke goes of right on top of your house and we all know what kind of force a nuke produces right? and you survive without the blast and aftershock and the heat and whatnot right? i'm thinking that you will never ever have to be afraid of being hit by anyone anymore because if you can tank that about of power you do not need to worry if a grenade or a city wide bomb goes of because you survived worse.

How is it that Goku can hurt beings such as Frieza/Cell and other villians with his punches who to most could barely crush a mountain? Even if Goku on panel shows that he can punch a city out of orbit that still would't mean jack Sh!t to being who can tank planetary hits like nothing. Am i using a messed up logic here or am i looking it the wrong way.

Post by Kurohige (3,756 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@niBBit: I like this logic, I once heard a similar conclusion about Trunks a few years back; it's not like Trunk's sword can cut a planet in half however it can cut being who can survive planet busting attacks. Something like that, I have to go hunt for the thread again though. Anyway about Saint Seiya: 
I mean Seiya in chapter one he throws 100 punches a second exceeding the speed of sound. Shiryu (Another main character) before even becoming a Saint he reversed the waterfall. He also in an early stage of the manga without his Bronze Cloth punches a whole floor off (from Mu's Tower)

Poseidon according to original Saint Seiya Manga, it was him who did flood the earth and saved Noah! 

In Episode G Volume 12, Aiolia start fighting Titan Iapetus and his wife Themis. The two Titans created their own universe using the Dunamis. Then Iapetus created a Planet, shrink it to smaller size, with billions living creatures, the living beings were burning their cosmo to aid Iapetus in his fight against Leo Aiolia:

In Lost Canvas, Tenma not in his strongest form destroy portion of the moon created by Hades (In Alone's body).

Saint Seiya is not about destroying planets, mountains, it's about abilities, speed....etc I mean Throwing 100,000,000 Punches a second is just a dream for anyone in DBZ at least early on. E ven with Calc, there are characters with abilities that even if you have calculations of destroying planet...etc doesn't give you a 100% of winning. I am talking about abilities like: (Stopping Time, Reversing Time, Erasing Memory...etc)
Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,104 posts) See mini bio Level 15
I agree. Saint Seiya is basically more focused on hax. And DBZ is focused on destructive capabilities.
Post by ROBOT6661 (358 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@5th: destroying theire surroundings =/= busting stars and planets, it could also mean destroying mountains and the environment it could mean a lot of things

episode G is not canon IMO, it wasn't written by kuramada he just let okada free will to write the story, wich like i said before contradicts the original work, if you look at the fights of episode G are WAY to diferent (in writting, style and powers) to the canon versions like the original manga and next dimension spin-off

Post by Redmonkeyssj4 (21 posts) See mini bio Level 7

That's awesome, no one is even going to "attempt" to counter my argument. >.>

Post by ReliusClover (784 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Why did this even go beyond the first page which should be full of "Saint Seiya rapes the whole DBZ and GT verse" comments?

Post by CerusSerenade (2,852 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@ReliusClover: Because there's no kill like overkill.

Post by GoodGamerSambo (195 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@ROBOT6661 said:

@5th: i know all of this, i never said they aren't fast....

no they can't destroy planet or stars LOL, i don't know where you get that "Destroying their surroundings" would mean planet and star busting, i have yet to see someone of the 12 gold saints (who isn't a gemini saint) destroy a planet or star

Just because we haven't seen any other gold saint (Apart from the gemini twins) destroy a planet or star, doesn't mean they can't.

Dohko and Shion are portrayed as being stronger than the Gemini saints yet we havent seen them planet bust.

That's like saying Fat Buu or Dabura can't planet bust because we never seen them do it, which we all know they can.

Shun destroyed multiple planets with his nebula chain and he's only a bronze saint.....Powerscale from that ..... ¬.¬

Post by 5th (1,464 posts) See mini bio Level 10
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@ROBOT6661: It as directed by Kuramada! Directed! He made the story and the plot of Ep G just with a different artist.

And not even, Dohko's weapons were stated to being capable of shattering stars individually.

Kanon shot off into another part of Hades' dimension and suicide bombed an entire solar system

And there's a lot more feats indicating their potential in Ep G and ND, may I say more?

Post by TheVectorPrime (269 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@ROBOT6661: Well good to see someone who actually knows something about Saint Seiya. I reply to you mainly because after some time they might start saying we are the same person :-) . That's because i became "notorius Saint Seiya hater" in eyes of some users. And when someone is questioning the common "Saint Seiya universal/galaxy busting power" that "poor guy" immediatelly becomes "Vector Prime's duplicate" on every VS battles forum :-).

Here are some usefull informations you can get if you want to debate about this furthere : and this . There are also links from some of my threads on Naruto Forums so you can check them if you like. Anyway it's kinda pointless since "opinion of majority from OBD" is what matters and not actual scans. Also to point out:

- Gemini Kanon never busted a planets. The famous scan is actually showing the illusion of planets which appear to hurl toward the opponent whenever is someone using Galaxian Explosion against Wyvern in Underworld (which by the way is multi-city block in size). The same planets appeared in Saga temple in Sanctuary arc when he used Galaxian explosion. So how can actual planets be contained inside a small temple ? Well noone bothered to answer to that, and they started saying is was focused and yet soroundings were damaged. How can a focused attack destroy soroundings. How can Bronze Clothe (no matter is Bronze saints aquired 7th sense or not, since cloth still has the same properties as in Galaxian Wars arc) tank galaxy busting power ? The same bronze clothe which shatters if 4000kg are aplied on it. Here are the scans:

(everyone can compare this to Saga's galaxian explosion and see the similarities)

those scans which I posted go one after the other so I wasn't "taking things out of contest" like some say.

- Aries Mu never destroyed a universe. It was a small dimensional portal which was actually smaller than temple roof. Nobody even bothered to look the scans. I analyzed it deeper in this thread:

so you can check if you want. By the way I consider Episode G canon. Only problem is there are like 12 issues online and some of the English and Spanish scans are edited in photoshop to make the series look morepowerful. This information was told to me by one member of Saint Seiya fandome site (on which they put Saint seiya below DBZ in power :-), by the way). Not to mention that now the main exuse for "common power level" is the statement "to destroy an atom" anyway no one bothered to check several scans later which proves that this is synonymous with famous " Saints burn their(not of any other objects or bodies) atoms and aquire power" and "Saints burn their Cosmo and aquired power". Since in saint Seiya bodies of Saints and atoms are viewed as small universes. But this info somehow slipped from everyone's eyes.

Anyway this wasn't stated in Omega and now everyone is pissed of/disapointed with Omega. Not to mention that in Omega there is the greates amount of destructive feats and said feats outclass anything seen so far in every other manga/anime. There is only one exception and that is Hades aligning the planets. Which by the way is the GREATEST FEAT SHOWN SO FAR IN ENTIRE SAINT SEIYA FRANCHISE (used caps look to make it more viewable). That indicates Saint seiya gods are only mid herald level at best.

P.S. Here is good info if you want to debate about this. I adressed every flaws there are about Saint Seiya, but people don't want to listen and will stick to "opinion of majority". Too bad non of that majority red the entire manga, but I think that true facts about Saint Seiya in OBD(the main source of info) are slowly appearing at the light of day. Since after Omega came out many started to question the "common power level" . And after some time Saint Seiya will come to it's proper place in hierarchy of power levels. Since hyping of this fiction outclasses the famous GetBackers deception by far. OBD is a good place for info, too bad many fictions tend to be overrated(Tenchi Myuo, Hokuto no Ken, Demonbane, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure...) there and many to be downgraded. Multiversal, universal and now megaversal are very easily aplied to certain fictions, without checking it first. Even many characters from my favorite fiction Marvel were overrated to be honest. If OBD wants to be a valid place for info it needs to prevent many "wankers" and "haters" (liek they like to say) to post their view of power levels instead of actual facts.

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