Battles

@ssjsuperman: I posted them on this thread, and the originally on the DC and MARVEL vs ANIME thread here on AV, where it was gogeta and ichigo vs thor and superman. I don't go on the:

  lounge.moviecodec.com "

"

forum you mentioned, but its not like my arguments are copy righted or anything, ppl can copy/paste or save the images here and use them elsewhere. 

 

lounge.moviecodec.com

that's the place where the OP came from , it's the paradise of trolls
 
 

Also considering that the kinasin is one the worst  DB Wankers i have ever seen he probably mean the whole Saint Seiya UIverse against SJJ4 Gogeta, that makes this an  horrible rape. 

 
and this

@hitsusatsu11 said:

Hmm, this might be a good place to post my screen shots i took for the other thread 
 

In GT 
-Goku punched c 17 across the world, in ssj1 child form
-took being punched out into space, then blitzed and punched back, in ssj1 child form 
-destroyed a dimension, in base 
-in ssj4 lifted up a section on a city, weighing millions+ tons 
-took temperately as hot as the sun and was fine 
-with his kiai lifted many near mountain sized pillars at once 
-no move works on gt goku twice 
-goku can copy any move, even shapeshifting  
-likes to spam IT
 

Here is an impressive feat, with his kiai (invisible ki) he lifts up many near mountain sized pillars, the sum of which is likely far in excess of a billions tons 
 

Here goku lifts part of a city back into place. 
   
 

 

Now, goku in ssj1 beat Rild, whos ki is >>> majin buu 
 

 

And we can talk about how plv. 130 (which is 3 digits) can destroy the moon, 18,00 can destroy a planet, but goku's battle power is IMPOSSIBLE to calculate, even for futuristic computers, who can likely calculate more digits then our computers which can what calculate millions and trillions of digits.  
So it would be far above the trillions, quitillions, ect, 
 

Now to how he uses this incalculable battle power 
 
Goku almost dies against bebi, but kaioshin saves him at the last moment. 

However the force behind the evil attack power is enough to warp him into a different and weird alternate dimension, one beyond the kaio realm.

Anyway, in this weird place goku has to obey the laws of this crazy twisted realty, if he cheats and uses his ki then he is threatened with being stuck in between dimensions for ever. 

However goku's opponent in this strange reality warped game cheats, and the dimension collapses in on them. 

Goku says screw it, realizes he can now use ki, and proceeds to blow up the dimension. 

He fires a beam

and the dimension cracks, then explodes.

   

Remember that ssj3 is 400 times base, so ssj4 would have to be minimum 800 times base, and fusion would square that power. 
I also think Gogeta had attacks stronger than the universal genki dama. 
 
And he did not only kick away, but neutralize an attack that was going to consume the entire universe and beyond 
 
   .  
  

Though personally, besides some ssj4 stuff I think GT is lame and sucks compared to DB and Z

Well done  hitsusatsu11.  That about covers it up. Now we should all note that these level of power is nothing compared to SSJ4 Gogeta. Kid Goku at base destroyed a dimension, imagine how strong he must be. Now we should know that SSJ3 is about 400 times base multiplier and thus SSJ4 should be atleast 800 base multiplier. On squaring that we find that the fusion dance should be about 640,000 times base multiplier. So we could say that he was atleast a universe buster. Now here we can see that Omega had an attack that could not only destroy the physical universe but the spiritual (after life) universe as well. So he is basically he is atleast two universe busters, but Gogeta tanked this attack with only his legs and with relative ease. Now we should note that Gogeta was never really serious about the fight. He was constantly mocking Omega and playing around with him. From this fight we don't get to see his true power. He could have been using only 20%-30% of his true power, but still was running laps around Omega and making a fool of him. Now back to the death ball. Omega said he will lay waste to the entire universe with his minus energy. So to counter such an attack you would need the same amount or more amount of positive energy which Gogeta's leg alone possessed. To give you a better example of how strong SSJ4 Gogeta was compared to Omega (and thus by extension SSJ4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta), remember the combo of 10x Kamehameha and Final Shine attack that SSJ4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta did, that attack barely scratched Omega, but when SSJ4 Gogeta first appeared he blinked his eyes and he used some sort of ki or telekinetic attack which knocked Omega back quite some distance so we can say 
 
 
SSJ4 Gogeta's blink >>>>>>> 10x Kamehameha + Final Shine.

@TheSaiyanGod: 
So how strong is Jack Rakan? Since he can destroy a huge dimension easily? (and it wasn't unestable)

   

@Zearth said:

@TheSaiyanGod: Goku didn't bust the dimension, the dimension was already collapsing, Goku just made a hole that made even more unestable and caused it to collapse, and we don't even know how big was the dimension. and you can't just pull numbers out of nothing, and assume that powerlevels are linear and use them to powersacale. Also Omega attacks was going to destroy the universe by chain reaction, if the attacks could really destroy the universe the universe would have been destroyed, even if Gogeta stoped the attack all that energy had to go somewhere, and considering that not just the universe was still there after the attack but even the planet is obvious that the attack wasn't anywhere near universe buster, specially considering that under your logic every time goku kicked something a universe would have been destroyed in the procces,  So Gogeta, at most is Star Buster, and that is already being generous considering that the most they have busted in the entire series is a planet.

Why would any of the Z fighters bust a planet, they are the good guys and so they won't just go around killing everyone and busting every planet that they can find. Planet busting feats were shown by Frieza and Buu ( and by Brolly in the movie) who were all the bad guys. Now we all know that DBGT is a continuation of the anime and not the manga, so in this situation we can use fillers from DBZ as well (because if you look at it GT is kind of a very long filler only). So when Vegeta was coming to earth he destroyed planet arlia with his two fingers very easily. Oh he also destroyed arlia's moon as well.  
     Now the Vegeta shown above is billions of time weaker than the Vegeta we came to know in GT ( actually this is the weakest form of Vegeta we know except for when he was a child).
Now Frieza did one better. He destroyed Planet Vegeta, which had 10x Earth's gravity (which must mean it either had 10X earth's mass or density) with his one finger. And he wasn't even trying. Note this can be considered canon as the movie 'bardock the father of goku' was written by Akira Toriyama himself. 
   Now Brolly who is a hell of a lot weaker than SSJ4 Gogeta destroyed the entire southern galaxy. It wasn't shown how he destroyed the galaxy but the narrator did state that he destroyed the southern galaxy and that's it.   I don't agree that Brolly is the strongest character in DBZ.That's just the uploader's point of view and not mine. But watch the video anyway. Nice song though, LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR. 
        Now this is a video that shows how easily Brolly can destroy a planet with a regular KI ball.
   Now here cell states that he has gathered enough KI to destroy the solar system. Now don't give me that he was lying unless you can tell me why the hell would he lie. He is a fictional character, he wouldn't lie to the audience, now will he? There is no point of lying to his opponents. They were already scared of him. This is Toriyama's way of writing. He won't let his characters mindlessly destroy all of creation but at the same time he wants to tell the audience how strong they are. That was the whole idea of why he invented the battle power ratings. But when the powers were getting ridiculously out of hand, then he abandoned the idea and went on to make statements through his characters to tell us how strong they really are. 
 
Now people should understand the difference between gathering enough ki to destroy the solar system and an attack that would actually destroy the solar system. Let me make it easy for you. If X is the amount of ki in cell's kamehameha, A be the amount of ki required to destroy all the planets in the solar system and B be the amount of ki required to destroy the sun then we have  
 
X = A+B 

This doesn't mean the attack can destroy the solar system, because the attack may not have the blast radius to cover the entire solar system, but it is essentially a potential star system buster. 
 
Here is a scan which shows elder kai commenting on the power of Super Buu. Now if anyone knows how much power it would require to bust the universe it would be this man, as he is the supreme overseer of the universe, and in a sense the God of the universe. 

  Now all of the ones shown above don't hold a candle to SSJ4 Goku or SSJ4 Vegeta, who in turn don't hold a candle to Omega Shenron who in turn does't hold a candle to SSJ4 Gogeta. Do the math yourself.

Now to as to why Omega's blast that was deflected by Gogeta didn't destroy the universe let alone planet. Well its like this, Omega stated that his blast was powered by negative energy and when Gogeta kicked the ball away he flooded it with positive energy. Now it's like yin and yang. One cancels the other. So Gogeta's positive energy cancelled all of the negative energy of the ball. After that was completed the ball became relatibely weake as it had less Ki in it. Then the ball travelled into space. Now remember at that point the earth was covered by a blanket of negative energy. The positive energy that remained in the ball cancelled this negative energy as well and thus became even more weaker. Then the ball floated into space and exploded harmlessly. I have the pictures of this but I can't find them right now. When I do find them I will edit this post and show you the pictures as well.

@Destinyheroknight

said:

@TheSaiyanGod: 
So how strong is Jack Rakan? Since he can destroy a huge dimension easily? (and it wasn't unestable)

   

Well I am not an expert on him so give me a few more feats. But for now I rank him somewhere  between full power base Kid Goku gt to 10%-20% SSJ1 Kid Goku gt. But these may change after I get some more feats. 
 
EDIT: Here are the pictures I was taking about.  

@peruano99A said:

let me ask.. how can goku win against someone who is faster than light... can fire like 100 million punches per second? and has a god cloth? besides seiya has immense will power.. and the kais in dragon ball z  just call themselves gods.. they are extremely weak compared to other anime gods.

Ah but the thing is that it isn't Goku, it is SSJ4 Gogeta who is thousands if not if not millions of folds stronger than Goku. And the kai's are the Gods of the DBZ universe whether you like it or not. Yeah I know that they don't look very omnipotent and are portrayed much weaker than the other anime Gods, but deal with it. It was probably depicted this way ( though I am not quite sure of it ) to show that the saiyans had even grown stronger than the Gods. The only beings stronger than the Kai's in DBZ is Buu, who is pure evil.

@TheSaiyanGod: 
Jack is only a mountain buster and he not close to GT Goku, so blowing up a dimension is not a big deal (unless we know the size)   
On the other hand Gaav destroy a galaxy in a dimenion, in one shot (unlike Broly who need time to do so), but Goku only destroy a unestable dimension that was already falling apart. Also Gaav have destroy a dimenion with a planet, sun and a moon, and it was stable    

Now here cell states that he has gathered enough KI to destroy the solar system. Now don't give me that he was lying unless you can tell me why the hell would he lie. He is a fictional character, he wouldn't lie to the audience, now will he? There is no point of lying to his opponents. They were already scared of him. This is Toriyama's way of writing. He won't let his characters mindlessly destroy all of creation but at the same time he wants to tell the audience how strong they are. That was the whole idea of why he invented the battle power ratings. But when the powers were getting ridiculously out of hand, then he abandoned the idea and went on to make statements through his characters to tell us how strong they really are.  

He lying because Akira-sama didn't put it in the Daizenshuu, to back up the statement (and he a freak bad guy, unless Ihe good guy back it up or the bad guy proven he can do that I'm not believing it) 

Here is a scan which shows elder kai commenting on the power of Kid Buu. Now if anyone knows how much power it would require to bust the universe it would be this man, as he is the supreme overseer of the universe, and in a sense the God of the universe. 

That not Kid Buu, its Super Buu. Also he said he will destroy the universe (DBZ only have four galaxy, it would be easy for him) that mean he will not one shot it

  

  Broly isn't a galaxy buster, it took him time to do it

WTF did I just came across to? Someone who manage to damage Hades Kamui (Universal Tanker) vs a non-canon character? Seriously WTF is this?

let me ask.. how can goku win against someone who is faster than light... can fire like 100 million punches per second? and has a god cloth? besides seiya has immense will power.. and the kais in dragon ball z  just call themselves gods.. they are extremely weak compared to other anime gods. 
 

plus the fact that the saints posses divine powers i don't see goku winning.

@SilverGalford: 
Not just that, characters that are ranked to be Gold Saints, Specters, Marine Generals, etc could solo the entire DBZ verse without even trying. Goku has no massive FTL reactions nor can he tag any of the saints who all I must say again move Massively Faster than Light & have Multistar tanking armor. Its ridiculous to say any character in DBZ can par with SS especially the top tiers.

@Zearth said:

@peruano99A: Broly is not canon to DBZ/GT anime, and we don't know how he destroyed the galaxy or how long it  took him so the feat is unusable, Cell statment is an hyberbole, especially considering cell personality, and there isn't any feat to back it.  Buu was considered a threat to the universe, because once the Z Warriors were dead there wouldn't be anyone in the universe to stop him, and over time he would have ended destroying everything, if DBZ characters were universe busters they wouldn't be scared every time someone is going to throw a planet buster ki blast, SJJ3 Gotenks ki blasts, even though he wasn't holding, were stated to be able to destroy the earth but no more.  Also show me a scan where they say Gogeta attacks are made from positive energy, the only attack that was stated to be  made of positive energy is the Genkidama.

How can there be any feat to back it up? Last time I checked Cell was killed by Gohan in that beam struggle. Also Cell became much more powerful than he was when he blew himself up due to the Zenkai he got. So his statement COULD be true as well.
I didn't say that Gogeta's attacks are made from positive energy. What I said was when Gogeta kicked away the negative Karma ball he flooded it with positive energy (i.e., his own life force). Since i don't have the subbed version of gt I can't show you any scans. 

@Destinyheroknight

said:

  Broly isn't a galaxy buster, it took him time to do it

How much time would that be? Brolly is only say 30- 40 years old and he destroyed the galaxy in that short amount of time which is millions of light years long and wide . Also King Kai acted astonished when he found out that the southern galaxy wasn't there anymore. If say Brolly took so long to destroy the galaxy King Kai or rather South Kai would have been aware and from him most likely King Kai would have also found out the situation much earlier. Which means if he didn't destroy the southern galaxy in one shot, than he had probably done it in a very short amount of time.