Shigekuni Yamamoto-Genryūsai Vs Sousuke Aizen

Topic started by Acer on Feb. 6, 2009. Last post by OfficialRikudouSennin 1 year ago.
Post by taichokage (15,438 posts) See mini bio Level 20
None of that applies to Aizen. 1 he is more powerful by far than any other regenerating character in the series. 2. He is explicitly stated to be immortal and thus imprisoned rather than executed 3. In bleach, higher reiatsu allows nerfing and in bigger differences of power, even nullification of the abilities of those with weaker reiatsu. Yamamoto's reiatsu is inferior to Aizen's. 4. Heat is irrelevant to regeneration in terms of damage type. It's damage like anything else and I see no reason why heat would be any different to cellular damage or conventional physical damage. 5. Aizen has more hax offense than Yamamoto if you factor in fragor and KS as he can nuke you or play with your mind. In sheer scope Yamamoto should be superior. Vastly superior but the actual sun level heat is only within a few meter of his person or directly ejected from Zanka no Tachi. While still very hot, the heat weakens the further it is from Yamamoto just like an actual sun.
Post by phantomrant (1,500 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@supernova7005 said:

His rieatsu is so great that even top tiers like Isshin can't feel it. Keep in mind, Isshin is implied to be close to Shikai Yamamoto in power. Then he transforms (a massive boost in power).

Also remember the fact that Haschwalth was able to feel Yama's rieatsu when he released his Bankai, which proves that it is inferior to evolved Aizen's.

Actually, the reason why Isshin was unable to sense his reiatsu was because Aizen has "evolved" into another dimension, which doesn't necessary mean that those of higher dimensions have higher reiatsu than those who are lower than them. Ichigo was able to sense Aizen's reiatsu because he was on the "same level" as him, but obviously he had far inferior reiatsu than the likes of Chrysalis Aizen (or even base Aizen for that matter) and Isshin himself. This is further enhanced when Aizen finally makes the connection between his inability to sense FGT Ichigo's reiatsu to him being on a hgiher dimension than him. But never has it been explicity suggested that it has something to do with reiatsu.

Other than that, the rest is solid.

Although I agree with Dream and What's out the bag that the Aizen regen argument is highly overrated and overused (particularly since Zanka no Tachi's effect on Aizen's body goes way beyond cellular vaporization), the transcendental-dimension thing still applies here. Aizen can utilize greater abilities and powers, and has been portrayed to be on another level than the likes of Yamamoto. Reiatsu is among the reasons for this. As such, it's a very simple matter for Monster Aizen to one-shot Bankai Yamamoto with a Fragor. Yamamoto may be able to beat Chrysalis and Mullet Aizen, and arguably Butterflyaizen given a boost of wank and hype, but he definitely stops at Monster Aizen. There's absolutely nothing he can do to him.

Post by Whats_out_the_bag (1,846 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@takashichea:

If you continue to insult others, I will report you to Sonata. You can insult the argument and the characters, but you must respect other debaters. Am I clear?

No you are not clear. Who did I insult?

@Whats_out_the_bag:

I hate to derail the thread, but you call everyone here a wanker. That's an insult there. Please watch what you are saying. Unless I'm mistaken about the word "wanker" and any words from the States or other countries, you have to be respectful.

@taichokage:

None of that applies to Aizen.

Heat? DC?

Please don't go wank mode on me.

1 he is more powerful by far than any other regenerating character in the series.

True, but why are you bringing up the fact he's more powerful than any other in the verse?

The video that was posted was only to inform you that regeneration isn't impressive if you can destory them before they can regenerate. i.e. Cell or Buu.

2. He is explicitly stated to be immortal and thus imprisoned rather than executed

I understand this, but we have no feats on his immortality. Here's not the only character that's been stated to be immortal. For now it's simply just a featless word. That's bring used as an argument.

3. In bleach, higher reiatsu allows nerfing and in bigger differences of power, even nullification of the abilities of those with weaker reiatsu. Yamamoto's reiatsu is inferior to Aizen's.

I get this, but how does that allow him to tank the heat?

The attack it self isn't impressive. Yamamoto doesn't impressive me at all, but the shear temperature his blade produces is above HST's extreme level.

4. Heat is irrelevant to regeneration in terms of damage type.

O.O ?????

Heat is irrelevant to regeneration? How?

It's damage like anything else

Exactly. Thus it'll hurt him.

and I see no reason why heat would be any different to cellular damage or conventional physical damage

There are different forms of damage types as you say. Cellular damage hurt him did it not? The only problem I saw was it was too damn slow to take him out. Heat is different. It'll take turn body into dusk within milisecs. Pretty much instant.

Cellular damage is different than heat. One is attack the cells the other is burning everything. Aizen wasn't completely over taken from cellular damage then regenerated. If that was the case then I would actually say he could stand a chance staging this heat as that would put him at mid-high regeneration.

Hell Aizen only has shown mid level regeneration. That's not enough to survive this attack. If he was hit with 15 million degrees he'll be dusk. It only takes 1200 K to turn a human dusk so what would 15 million K do? Until you bring some scans up of him showing some regeneration at this level he would not survive the attack.

5. Aizen has more hax offense than Yamamoto if you factor in fragor and KS as he can nuke you or play with your mind.

True.

In sheer scope Yamamoto should be superior. Vastly superior but the actual sun level heat is only within a few meter of his person or directly ejected from Zanka no Tachi. While still very hot, the heat weakens the further it is from Yamamoto just like an actual sun.

The sun is over 93,000,000 miles from earth and the sun's surface is around 27,000,000 Fahrenheit (15,000,000 Celsius) . Earth can get around 160 to 200 degrees. Just want you to do the math real quick.

So throw someone generating that much heat near you even a hundred miles a way would fuck your shit up.

You guys even brought up him being country level. That's something that no one in Bleach other than him can do.

I personally don't care for this battle. I just don't want someone to wank Aizen into raping Yamamoto when he doesn't. If you guys figure out who wins and it's Aizen, I at least want to know that Yamamoto kicked hell of ass in the battle instead of... His powers can't work on him simply because Aizen has hell of proven (featless) assumptions.

Post by taichokage (15,438 posts) See mini bio Level 20
All that actually makes sense. I'm not trying to say that Aizen can't be harmed. He can sure suffer damage, it's just i don't think Yamamoto can put him in life threatening danger and assuming he could, I still think Aizen has the hax advantage. And would more than likely put Yamaji down first.
Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,084 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@supernova7005 said:

@TheNeutralOne said:

If yama goes bankai aizen can't touch him due to the shield. Idk though aizen can regenerate so yea.

He can nuke him with a Fragor. Its rieatsu is superior to Yama's flames since he's a transcedent being.

@SpeedForceSpider said:

Yamamoto wins comfortably here. Nothing Aizen can do to him.

Hado 90.

His Bankai doesn't provide any defense against gravity

Sorry but that is arguable and possibly bullcrap. Hado 90 is featless and worthless.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@Dream said:

Fail to see how the "reiatsu-sensing" block ability is supposed to make Aizen more powerful than any shinigami or human

Because Isshin states that the only those who can feel his power are the one's at the same level as him.

considering Dangai Ichigo could mop the floor with his final form and Yamamoto is considered to easily be among Bleach top tiers.

That's an association fallacy. Yamamoto is a top tier, but so is Dangai Ichigo. Just like, if Madara is a top tier in Narutoverse that doesn't mean he can beat Juubito.

@Whats_out_the_bag said:

Also powerscaling sucks, we use feats on battleforms. Everyone knows powerscaling isn't a reliable method of figuring out who wins.

If we use feats alone, Ulquiorra would be the second strongest character in Bleachverse after Yamamoto. This doesn't make sense.

Even Frieza would be stronger than Vegito if you rely only on feats lol.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

You guys are forgetting that DC isn't everything.

Yama has: DC only.

Aizen has: Speed, strength, regeneration/durability, rieatsu, teleportation, hax.

Post by Whats_out_the_bag (1,846 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@supernova7005:

If we use feats alone, Ulquiorra would be the second strongest character in Bleachverse after Yamamoto. This doesn't make sense.
Even Frieza would be stronger than Vegito if you rely only on feats lol.

Congratulations for getting that.

Ulquorra would be the 4th strongest. Ichigo is the 2nd as Aizen is the 3rd.

Feats are nearly everything in battle forums. You can pull a win with a reliable powerscale, but just like calculations they aren't always something to sit back on. I don't think Bleach is the verse you can simply do that too. DBZ makes sense as they have a power system ( Ki LEVEL). Yes Bleach has a power system as well, but ABILITIES over shadows it. Heat on that scale is more impressive than anything we've seen Aizen do. Thus I can not simply slide to the side and let him beat the shit out of Aizen with no fight actually going on.

You guys are forgetting that DC isn't everything.
Yama has: DC only.
Aizen has: Speed, strength, regeneration/durability, rieatsu, teleportation, hax.

I'm happy someone get this. Abilties are the main factors for the fight.

Speed (What speed feats did he do? ) Yama as out ran captains with ease in unreleased form, he has even blitzed wonderweiss. Strength is weaker than Aizen's last 2 transformations, but not weaker than anything before that. That's Yama bare handed. Regeneration is a non factor. His Durability isn't tanking Yama's attack. His Rieatsu isn't doing shit to Yama, his teleportation doesn't help him.

He either gets DC or Hax. He doesn't have both at once. His hax ability is his KS, which simply stabbing Yama nullifies that ability.

Aizen at his strongest can one shot Yama.

Yama at his strongest can one shot Aizen.

^ THIS ABOVE ONLY MEANS THEY BOTH HAVE ENOUGH DC to take the other out.

It's all going down on who attack hits who. Using logic Yama has the advantage in range and DC. Aizen has the advantage in usage of dc (meaning he can spam his destructive attack).

This battle sucks as we don't know which forms they are in. If Yama starts off in banki he automatically wins, due to the fact he's releasing too much heat for Aizen to handle. But we don't know what form they are in thus it's kind of a pointless battle. Rambling about who wins when we don't know the circumstances of this match.

Post by takashichea (14,431 posts) See mini bio Level 25
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@Whats_out_the_bag:

This battle sucks as we don't know which forms they are in. If Yama starts off in banki he automatically wins, due to the fact he's releasing too much heat for Aizen to handle. But we don't know what form they are in thus it's kind of a pointless battle. Rambling about who wins when we don't know the circumstances of this match.

I had said this before. If you guys want to change the OP, just ask me. The original owner is gone. There is no need to create a new battle match. It creates clutter. I had deleted dupes in the battle threads this week if there is more than one dupe.

I'm organizing the battle threads. Please see the Battle Forum Archive 2013. Things will be stricter.

Post by nishi99 (1,987 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Bankai Yamamoto got my vote. The way i see it Yamamoto should be at least Dangai Ichigo level.

Post by Whats_out_the_bag (1,846 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@takashichea:

I can not recommend any chances as that would dishonor me. Any change I make would only enable me an advantage.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@Whats_out_the_bag: I agree with most of your post, but Ulquiorra is nowhere near the 4th strongest in Bleach. Hell, even Yammy is stated to be stronger than Ulquiorra in the databooks, and he's just a mid tier who got beaten by Kenpachi and Byakuya.

Moreover, there are tons of guys stronger than Ulquiorra like Juhabach, Haschwalth, post-skip Ichigo, Stark, Barragan, Shunsui, Ukitake, Kenpachi, current Renji, most of the current captains etc. And none of these guys have shown any destructive feats close to Ulquiorra. Base Aizen is stated to be stronger than all the Espada combined (now imagine his final form).

As for speed, even base Aizen was also able to blitz and one-shot senior captains-

Also, Monster Aizen has teleportation and his speed is comparable to Ichigo who could react to teleportation-level speeds.

Mod Edit

Post by Whats_out_the_bag (1,846 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@supernova7005: Cool scans, but Yamamoto could do that as well. He already blitzed two captains in the beginning. Also there's like one or two senior captains there. Bleach really doesn't have much on speed feats. All that was shown was that he's faster than other captains which we already know Yamamoto is already. We also know Aizen knows that Yamamoto's Zanpacto is stronger than his and could probably beat him. He even went out of his way to take down. I forgot about the other characters, but I'm just referring to feats.

That data book is retarded as Yammy was taken out by guys weaker than Ulquiorra. But of well.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@Whats_out_the_bag: That was just base Aizen who blitzed the senior caps. Imagine is speed after 4 major transformations.

Yama is a bit faster than base Aizen, but nowhere close to Monster Aizen. After just one transformation itself, Aizen was faster than Yoruichi, who was the master of shunpo.

Btw Kenpachi got a powerup after fighting Nnoitra...this is the reason he beat Yammy, so there was no contradiction in the databook.

Post by takashichea (14,431 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Online Now
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@Whats_out_the_bag:

All right then. If you have any questions, just call me.

@supernova7005:

I edited your post again. If you want to link, link to a non pirated site (IE: Viz Media Alpha) or an image sharing site (IE: Photobucket). Otherwise, stick to posting clean scans.

Post by OfficialRikudouSennin (704 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Stalematebut to me Yamaoto isnt that powerful in other battles

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