Saiyan vs Icer: Breaking the Limit

Topic started by ReiKai on Sept. 9, 2012. Last post by taichokage 2 years, 5 months ago.
Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
This was something I had been thinking about today, going over number comparisons and such and decided to see if anyone else had come to similar conclusions. But to test that, let's try this out.
This isn't Goku vs Freeza. This is a Saiyan character vs an Icer character (we cal them Icers. Or Changelings or Icejin, fans use these for Freeza's race since Toriyama never decided to name it).
Ok, let's say on one side, the Saiyan is trained by the likes of Mirai Trunks and Gohan, and the Icer by Cooler and Cell to learn techniques and strategies and whatnot (no IT). Now say by the end of the training their Base Power Levels are roughly equal. The Saiyan has learned and can transform up to Super Saiyan 3, while the Icer can achieve the equivalent form of the 100% Final Form. Now, with that and starting at their Base States, ultimately which one would win in an all-out conflict?
Post by taichokage (17,151 posts) See mini bio Level 20
It's hard to tell. Frieza's 100% Final form was roughly 240x his base, but the ssj3 form is 400x base. But if the iced or whatever they are can go beyond the 100% final form they would probably win although an answer for that would be ssj4. But it pretty much shows that Frieza's final form did not multiply his power on the level that the ssj3 did, so if these characters start off in similar level base form, it seems that the Saiyan is the dominant power.
Post by ohgodwhy (1,622 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@taichokage: Yep I just did the same calculations and going by just those calculations alone the Power Level Difference is far too great in the Sayain's favour.

Post by ReiKai (3,550 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Last I checked the SSJ transformers were; SS1 = 50xBase, SS2 = 100xBase, SS3 = 200xBase. The 400xBase for saiyans I think was the GT SS4 multiplication factor. I could be mistaken though (not unheard of). Is there an Official page for them?
Anyway, looking at the Icer transformations, it was apparent that the first two don't increase the Base level all that much. 1st Transformation was x2 Base, 2nd Transform was double that (so 4xbase), the 3rd Transformation (what Freeza called Final) raised from 2mil to 6mil, which was made only a fraction of his maximum output. 60mil was Freeza's 50% state or half his full ability (10x what it was when he transformed to Final). So 100% power is 20x the starter level of his Final Form.
Freeza's base PL was 530thousand. His 100% power was 120million. The multiplication factor is 226xBase. That is in excess of a SS2. The major fault of Freeza is relying heavily upon his transformations to win battles instead of working on building up his basic form and abilities. However I will say that it is easier for an Icer to maintain a transformed state than it is for a Saiyan.
Still, if these two were to, say, start with a Base power of 40mil and if the 400x is correct for SS3, then the Saiyan's max PL would be 16billion. While the Icer's PL would be 9.04billion. So the Saiyan would win by a good 7billion difference.
As for adding Cooler's Ultimate Form to the list, as much as I'd like to, I'd rather not as that could complicate things and I don't think the SS4 power boost was ever stated and can't be judged appropriately as in GT Vegeta never obtained SS3 and resorted to using Bulma's Blutz Wave Amplifier to transform and Goku required the transformation to retake an adult form because his SS3 form as a child was in fact much, much weaker than as an adult.
However if I had to guess and run some numbers, Cooler had said Freeza had the edge over him Before he learned to transform to Ultimate. If I took the power reading from Budokai and worked backwards following the factors for Freeza's form, I come to a conclusion that Cooler's Base PL is just shy of 520thousand. Just ten-thousand shy of Freeza's, but that can make all the difference when you have the same transformations. It would put Cooler's supposed 100% Final Form power at 117.5mil. Which does say Freeza has an edge over him.
And yet, if we included his ultimate form, the boon he gains is equivalent to about 903xBase Power Level. Despite how they made things play out in the movies, if these figures were to hold true, than an Icer's Ultimate Form would outclass even the absurdity of a Super Saiyan 4.
Post by ohgodwhy (1,622 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Well as far as I'm aware SSJ3 transformation is 4x SSJ2 transformation. I believe this was stated in the Daizenshuu.

Also I would say that the SSJ2 transformation is x2 stronger than a FPSSJ, not a SSJ. This makes a lot more sense because even ASSJ Vegeta seemed to be more than 2x more powerful when he went from getting curbstomped by 18 to easily kicking Semi-Perfect Cell's ass.

Therefore the typical Icey transformations shouldn't even be close to the typical Sayain transformation.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,179 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@ohgodwhy: I agree with you man. But doesn't several sources put the ASSJ form with a 1.5x multiplier? I believe that should have been enough because Vegeta also increased his strength in regular SSJ as well. But I do agree SSJ2 is based off mastery of SSJ.

Post by taichokage (17,151 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Actually the ssj3 multiplier is 400x according to the zenshi data book. Hence, the only reason I would give this to the Saiyan.
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