Renji & Byakuya Vs Zoro & Mihawk

Topic started by One_Piece_God on Aug. 25, 2012. Last post by dwade 2 years, 2 months ago.
Post by DBZ_universe (15,755 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@YouFinished said:

Bakudo 61 has never shown to contain someone as strong as Zoro.

Bakudo #61 can only be broken through spirit energy... not physically.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,056 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@DBZ_universe: Thank you I forgot about that.

Post by YouFinished (1,036 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@SpeedForceSpider said:

@YouFinished said:

@One_Piece_God: lol, How else are you supposed to respond to a primitive argument such as "Your opinion doesn't matter" and "Because I say so" in a debate where we rely on facts.

*Facepalm*

I never said because I said so, I said "like I said" to reference my eariler quote. Nice try because you have no counterargument so you whine instead.

Then you further dig a hole for yourself and say we rely on facts and all you made so far is pathetic claims such as:

Bakudo 61 has never shown to contain someone as strong as Zoro

Never did you prove me wrong with scans or such as the other users take the time to do. You need to learn how to properly debate instead of pointlessly keep posting whiny nonsense like "how else are you suppose to respond".


First off, the "Because I say so"  argument comes from: 

 and they will utilize it if they have to no matter what you say.

Your saying they will  no matter what facts I present without any evidence. Oh, the irony. It's fact a majority of Bleach battles start on the ground and they usually clash swords. I simply don't need to provide scans for this, If you don't know this you haven't read the manga.  Without knowledge of the opponent the chances of them actually taking flight at unreachable distances for the two swordsmen right at the start are slim at best.  And if you don't know: all fighters start on the ground unless stated otherwise in the OP. Also like I said a few times already, Zoro and Mihawk have long ranged attacks, the speed advantage plus precog. You still have to prove flight would be helpful in the first place.
  
And secondly, your the one who made the claim he can hold Zoro with Bakudo 61 the burden of proof is on you (dat irony). And to say I "keep whining" when I only said something once just doesn't make sense. Before you tell someone to learn to debate who's been debating on this site for a year and half make sure you know how to debate yourself and can actually make non-contradictory and plausible arguments.    
 
@DBZ_universe:  Can you provide a scan? I don't recall this nor have I seen it acknowledged in the plethora of battles that involve Byakuya. It also does not say this on it's wiki. Even so, usually such universe mechanics are ignored during cross verse battles due the fact not every manga uses spirit energy. A good example of this would HXH's nen baptism, the first time you get hit with nen you can easily die but without it you can't even perceive nen, though this is not accounted for in battles. It can lead to no limits fallacy and automatic wins.
Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,056 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@YouFinished: That is still not a "because I said so" you're ignorant moving on.

Next use you're instead of your since you feel you are so much wiser than me. Again you're the only one who claimed Bakudo 61 cannot hold him so we both made claims on that part. Also, Team Bleach has long ranged attacks as well so flight combined with that is very effective.

Lastly, who gives a rats ass if you have been debating on this site longer than me? That is so very irrelevant to the argument at hand. I sure don't and you're the one who keeps contradicting yourself then try to make it seem like you're right when that is not the case.

Just face the fact that your arguments are invalid and are opinion based and leave it at that. Since you feel that arguing with me about stupid things is a rational thing to do, I don't see why we should continue to debate about this.

Post by YouFinished (1,036 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@SpeedForceSpider :
lol It's like your not even reading my post or even your own and it seems your getting frustrated. Lets just truce because I'd just rather not go on.
Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,056 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@YouFinished said:

@SpeedForceSpider :lol It's like your not even reading my post or even your own and it seems your getting frustrated. Lets just truce because I'd just rather not go on.

Read the last sentence of my post which you clearly didn't read. You're so butthurt.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,755 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@SpeedForceSpider: No problem!! :D

@YouFinished: Any battle against a Shinigami is by reiatsu... Aizen sama explains this..

So yes Bakudo #61 can only be broken down by spiritual energy....

Also as you can see Aizen Sama said that even attacks meaning even physical attacks are no good against some one with higher spiritual energy... Kenpachi is an Example to this as well..

is this good enough?? or not? :)

Post by YouFinished (1,036 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@DBZ_universe: Well, I really don't see how it pertains to Bakudo 61. First off, Aizen's says between Shinigami which is absolutely different from against. Between means two shinigami battling out and against can mean just one vs a non shinigami for example; this battle. Secondly, as I explained in my last post, such universe mechanics are ignored in battle threads or it wouldn't be much of a battle. Even if you read the OP, he has explained such Bleach mechanics are out. This is usually assumed for all cross verse battles.
Post by DBZ_universe (15,755 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@YouFinished: actually it does imply here cause that's Byakuya's spirit energy... and to over power that you need to have more reiatsu than Byakuya..

an example to this is in Movie 3 (though it was non canon) it was when Dark Rukai used reiatsu to destroy the Bakudo #61 not physical.

also the higher the reiatsu you have the better it is for you not to get hurt by physical attacks..

Post by YouFinished (1,036 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@DBZ_universe:  Yes, I know this, but it only applies to battles containing just Bleach characters. Once again, these mechanics are ignored in battle threads involving different fiction. It simply isn't relevant to this battle.
Post by One_Piece_God (569 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@YouFinished said:

@DBZ_universe: Yes, I know this, but it only applies to battles containing just Bleach characters. Once again, these mechanics are ignored in battle threads involving different fiction. It simply isn't relevant to this battle.

This.

Sorry if I didn't make the OP clear but it really should be common sense since the characters are from different verse and it makes the battle fair.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,755 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@YouFinished: True... you do got a point...

Post by othus12 (7,681 posts) See mini bio Level 13

i find it funny that people think byakuya can defeat zoro and even mihawk....he has lower speed,lower reflexes,lower strenght, lower skill and lower endurance.he is overall below both zoro and mihawk. and renji isnt helping at all here team 2 wins in an effortless stomp. his kido wouldnt be able to catch up with them, before he could name the kido his head would be on the floor

Post by Kurohige (3,743 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@othus12: Damn, what are some of their speed feats, maybe I over looked them.

Post by othus12 (7,681 posts) See mini bio Level 13

well for starters he managed to land a hit on kuma which was able to teleport and had insane reaction time, he also dodged a light beam and an attack called pad cannon which also goes at the speed of light (he did all this exhausted and damaged from his previous fights). and he was tagging kaku which uses soru (a move that imo is the one piece version of shunpo) so i think he has more than enough speed feats to overcome byakyuya with ease

Post by taichokage (14,801 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Please, as if. Byakuya is easily the fastest one here. He moves so quickly he creates a clone in the utsusemi technique. See Mihawk or Zoro top that. Remember that often things are slowed down in Bleach. At 20% he moved faster than Ichigo who had super reaction, could perceive and he was about Vice Captain level at the time. Renji is not as fast as his captain but he has brute strength. Check his battle against Jackie. Her kicks sent massive ripples in the canvas behind them but Renji easily blocked her best with his wrist. Quite frankly I am unimpressed by some of team One Piece's speed. I have to hand it to them in very short distances. Zoro has dodged point blank gun fire, and even a laser beam, but anything larger than that and he seems not to have his speed all of a sudden. Reference almost every major arc including the current events in the current one. Zoro could barely outrun a blob of slime. And quite frankly, Mihawk has no solid speed feats. Even assuming that team bleach were slower they can fly, which is a huge advantage in One Piece. Even Buggy who is one of few fliers was able to evade all of Admiral Akainu's attacks. Kido, another big factor. Zoro can dodge a tiny bullet or thin beam, but how would he do against six beams of light prison, or a massively wide soukatsui blast, or a giant bone cannon from Renji? He would not do well. Not to mention that zanpakutou are much better than swords in almost any other anime, One Piece included. Even assuming that team One Piece could handle all that was previously mentioned, I don't see them getting away from millions of blades, a.k.a Senbonzakura Kageyoshi .
Post by One_Piece_God (569 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@taichokage:

Remember that often things are slowed down in Bleach.

This is done in nearly every manga where high speed battle is concerned.

Byakuya & Ichigo's initial encounter Ichigo was at 3rd/4th seat lvl in overall stats (his reaitsu obviously not matching his lvl of skill). So he was not at vice captain lvl at all until he fought Renji in soul society. Aizen clearly said this as well Ichigo was set up to battle them in a certain order when his combat ability matched there's. There second encounter Ichigo was still slower but was able to see Byakuya's movements and block.

I think you need to read Zoro Vs Kaku's battle again. I believe it is significant because of the projectiles attack shown, his speed feats then, an opponent who essentially flys & his massive damage soak on cutting attacks.

I believe Zoro has the speed to evade that kind of attack (Senbonzakura...) & even if he does get hit with that there is no way that would finish him off or even make him crippled, Zoro has taken a lot more damage than what Byakuya bankai can dish out.

People need to stop bringing up this flying crap, it is simply not a big enough advantage to be repeated constantly in battles where the opponent has numerious ways to reach the other.

Bleach character fly + spams attacks = the other character who is not weak easily evades & counters.

In all serious Bleach battles a character never takes to the air unless its part of there special attack or unless they are being forced to from the other combatant. They choose to battle on neutral ground.

I can agree that Kido may be a big factor here against Zoro.

Post by Fehafare (9,606 posts) See mini bio Level 13

The fuck is this debated? Team 2 in an ungodly stomp.

Post by taichokage (14,801 posts) See mini bio Level 20
I asked the same question. Team 1 takes this as I stated. Thea. 2 only are superior in brute strength (arguable because of Renji.) And maybe stamina (although Mihawk has no feats in that.) They are less versatile, less mobile, and overall inferior at long range.
Post by Fehafare (9,606 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@taichokage: Wait, are you saying that Bleach or OP wins?

Team 1 = Bleach

Team 2 = OP

EDIT: Oh you are saying Bleach wins... lolno

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