Naruto vs Luffy vs Ichigo vs Tsuna

Topic started by xlab3000 on Nov. 10, 2012. Last post by ImDictatorBowDown 2 years ago.
Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@ohgodwhy: Um bro there is a limit to Naruto's Chakra so he probably couldn't level that entire with bijuu bombs let alone in 10minutes. Also Aokiji and Akainu are both very much capable of destroying an island and life wiping it in seconds. Their fight lasted that long because they are opposing elements. I mean if they wanted aokiji could have just frozen everything and akainu could have just melted the island. But that is besides the point.

Luffy is currently very capable of holding a candle to aokiji and akainu. The only thing stopping him from fighting was their intangibility and mastery of haki. Luffy has now mastered haki and can hit them and precog their attacks to dodge them. Rayleigh even said he already taught luffy all he knew and luffy surpassed his training and trained by himself after a year. Rayleigh was capable of fighting and hitting a light based being. I am 100% sure luffy can now as well.

I won't argue about the bijuu bomb because neither of us have seen the full extent of it in naruto's possession yet.

Also Tsuna has far surpassed naruto,ichigo and luffy so his place in the fight isn't even debatable. Also Tsuna probably will have a dying will bullet handy because he has barely if ever fought without reborn by his side ready to lend a hand. Reborn could shoot tsuna and leave without a problem because none of these fighters could hold a candle to him and if its morals off tsuna will make sure that happens. Ichigo can go final getsuga if he wants that isn't even questionable. He knows how, his morals are off and he has the ability to do so.He can also go full hollow and just cero luffy and naruto without question.

Post by othus12 (7,732 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@TheNeutralOne: he cant go full hollow nor final getsuga and let me tell you why.

1.- he cant go full hollow because:

*its not an hability he can use whenever he pleases (example: bankai)

*it was triggered only because he was about to die

*he has never shown a full hollow since then

2.-he cant go final getsuga because:

*he trained for a lot of time in order to gain the state of power when he himself gets his zampakuto attached onto his right hand

*he got his shinigami powers back, but they arent nearly as powerful as when he fought aizen

*without the fused arm-katana form he cant go the next step which is final getsuga.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@TheNeutralOne: You're still misunderstanding the comparison I was making which was that the punch that pierced through Whitebeard is no where near as powerful as a bijuu bomb. Don't tell me you seriously expect me to believe that Luffy can just tank a multi mountain buster attack.

Your second point I strongly disagree with but that's off topic anyway so let's leave that. However I will say that Luffy is most definitely not light speed, he might be able to predict light speed level attacks that move in a straight line but there is no way he's light speed or anywhere close even. Otherwise all their battle would involve disappearing from sight like in DBZ. I still don't see how he can avoid an attack that will destroy a wide area like the bijuu bomb regardless of whether he predicts it or not.

The OP said only current equipment, therefore Tsuna should only have his ring in this battle. Tsuna with just his own ring isn't anywhere near as powerful as he is with Enma's ring on or with the effects of Reborns dying will bullet. I've already said earlier that if he can use these extra accessories then yes, he is the strongest here.

If Ichigo can go use all his hollow powers then why didn't he use them just now? He would've died if it wasn't for his quincy powers kicking in, for now it would be best to assume he can't go full hollow or use final getsuga.

Either way, Naruto's not losing to Luffy because of

1) Mass shadow clones that aren't retarded anymore.

2) Bijuu Bombs and mini Bijuu Bombs.

3) Senju chakra lets Naruto effectively use haki, he only needs to have one clone do this because all the clones are linked. He can therefore sense and predict attacks, not quite on the level of haki but good enough.

Post by Yusuke52 (444 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Since when did Senjutsu Chakra give you precognition? It heightens your reflexes, speed and strength and allows you to sense chakra over long distances. At no point did it give him Haki like precognition.

Kurama's Chakra allows him to sense negitive emotions so that does not serve as precognition either, where did you get the idea from that he can predict an attack before it happens.

If you have a scan of him forseeing an attack before it hits him then by all means post away, because clearly I have missed a chapter.

And Naruto has never shown the ability to "Spam" his Bijuu Dama, It has also never shown Multi-Mountain busting destruction so until it blows up an area of that size it's high end mountain level. I will conceed to this of course if you can show me an image of him spamming said attack with ease.

Im not going to say that Luffy will survive a direct hit from one as I would be lying to myself, but if Naruto, a physically weaker character (Comperable in strength currently) can move and defect Bijuu Dama's with a kick, I see no reason why Luffy, thanks to his Gomu Gomu no Mi, can't replicate this by slingshotting it into the air or off to the side. My only qualm about this tactic is would he be quick enough to act.

The gap in power between these guys is not as large as some people make it out to be, The only thing that Naruto has that put's him ahead of the pack is his Bijuu Dama, without that he goes back to being much weaker overall than the rest of them as Luffy and Ichigo have a much higher level of damage output than him, not to mention being a degree faster and more durable.

I know nothing about Tsuna as KHR never grabbed my attention, but assuming what people say is true my ranking would be

Tsuna -- Ichigo (Post Dangai, he could be lower than this currently but I will keep it like this till we get more information) -- Luffy -- Naruto

The reason I put Luffy ahead of Naruto is simple, the only thing that can put him ahead of Luffy can only be used sparingly (Until shown otherwise) and is only accessable during his 5 minute window, Neither Luffy or Ichigo have such limitations on their power and can consistently output high damage at a very fast pace, once Naruto comes out of his cloak he is getting beat down. With that said the gap between Naruto and Luffy thanks to the Bijuu Dama in this ranking is very small indeed.

What I dont understand is why people casually put Ichigo above Naruto. Everyone says "Luffys not gonna survive a Bijuu Dama", Thats true, he cant but neither can Ichigo. His durability threshold does not exceed High Town - Low City level, so a mountain buster is gonna mess him up too. He is not so fast that he can avoid one either If you are going to rank them according to damage output and durability the do it correctly as neither Luffy nor Ichigo is surviving a Bijuu Dama.

Some will say that ranged strikes will destroy the Bijuu Dama before its fired, yeah thats true. But both Ichigo and Luffy are more than capable of not even allowing Naruto the time or concentration required to form a complex attack that requires an exact 8:2 ratio else it detonates in his face by spamming Gattling/Storm or Getsuga Tensho at Naruto and forcing him to keep moving.

Kage Level Clones? Yeah thats great, but Ichigo and Luffy can easily put them down as they dont have the durability to tank any of their attacks, At a base they are still shadow clones. They are going down from one good hit, which Luffy or Ichigo can do with a punch or sword swing.

And once again if you have scans to prove that Naruto while under heavy continuous fire can form something as complex as a Bijuu Dama then please post them.

As I said before, I know nothing about Tsuna so I can't comment on a victor. I also dont intend to reply to anyone via the thread here as I will be busy for a good few days and I dont plan on bringing back a dead thread so to speak, so if you are going to reply to me do so through a PM and I will get back to you as soon as I can.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@ohgodwhy: Actually my good friend you are quite drastically underestimating luffy. I had a little talk with all my friends who have read all the HST and many more and all of them seem to agree that luffy can severely beat naruto. We also agree that if it was without the haki luffy would lose. But that would be like taking mastery of the Kyuubi away from naruto so that doesn't count.

The thing is Luffy has been a mountain buster for forever now(Third gear). His third gear combined with his hardening can just kick the bijuu bomb away. Or if you say it will explode he can just stretch his foot faster than it will be released and in turn explode and kill naruto. Also admiral akainu's attack was more than likely a mountain buster+ considering he was fighting white beard who was not to be taken lightly even in that injured stated. Also due to his tendency to not show mercy it probably was. Whitebeard is way more durable than Blackbeard who was capable of taking a quake to the face with only a few dusk marks. So it is safe to say it was a mountain busting attack since it actually affected him. Luffy has also shown his non serious strength feats by fighting hordy and punching him through the under water mountains. Naruto could not survive such an attack. That is not arguable that is a fact. If he somehow survived then he would probably meet luffy's fist impaling him into the ground. Luffy has also long since been faster than naruto. Second gear has shown him capable of disappearing and reappearing in an instant. All his skills are amped now so its safe to say he moves way faster. We also can look at another feat displayed by luffy that no one seems to have grasped fully yet. He overcame his natural devil fruit weakness. He stretched underwater and was able to pull back his hands. That kind of feat should not even be possible considering that his devil fruit should be nullified by the sea water and force his arms downward to the depths of the ocean. That is a show of extremely superior durability.

Luffy is 100% capable of avoiding such a tiny blast. He is rubber he can just bounce really high =\/. Naruto has no technique speedy enough to tag a second gear haki hardened luffy with supreme precog. Him trying to tag luffy is impossible and in his struggle he will probably meet his end to Ichigo's blade.

Post by All_StarSupes (781 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Luffy mastered Haki? I must have mis-read the part in the manga where he states that he hasn't fully mastered Haki yet. And pre-cog helps Luffy avoid all attacks? What was the reason Hodi was able to tag him and the dragon smacked him around. And current Ichigo wouldn't last 30 seconds with FGT Ichigo, Juha was treating him like he was a joke.

Like I said Tsuna, Naruto, Ichigo-Luffy tied.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (5,064 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@TheNeutralOne: You're trying to make Luffy sound better than he really is. No one is really underestimating him here, but it seems you are overestimating him a tad bit.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@TheNeutralOne: I'm not going to make a big ass post because it's a waste of my time and yours so I'll try and condense it all into bullet points.

1) Disappearing from sight and reappearing isn't the most impressive thing in the world, Rock Lee was disappearing from sight and reappearing all the way back during the chuunin exams. Naruto in his 9 tailed cloak mode has been touted as being able to move so fast that all you can see is a yellow flicker, similar to Minato and he's already faster than A who was able to move so fast that even Sasuke with his sharingan couldn't keep up. In fact Sasuke missed an Amaterasu at point blank range because A could move so fast. Speed wise I wouldn't say there's much of a gap at all.

2) You'll have to forgive me here for sounding rude but I don't really care what your friends think and you shouldn't try to use that in your favour in this debate.

3) As for stopping the bijuu dama before Naruto can release it, Luffy's going to have a hard time of that seeing as how Naruto was able to create one that was powerful enough to push back several other combined bijuu bombs after they had already pooled all their power together. My computers not letting me post scans but you can see this clearly in chapter 571. Also it's not a "tiny" blast, each induvidual bijuu bomb was shown to cause an explosion that engulfed entire mountains and reached the clouds, this is also visible in chapter 571. Luffy's not avoiding those, as far as I can remember he's not shown himself to be able to jump as high as an entire mountain.

4) Naruto's rasenshuriken ripped through an entire mountain range.

5) Luffy in Gear 3, using all his power was really struggling to destroy the Noah and maybe only destroyed a 1/4 of it before needing help. I don't see how you can call him a mountain buster. There's an image, that once again I can't post, that shows the Noah as being roughly around the size of a mountain in comparison to the surrounding scenery I would say.

6) Naruto attacks with chakra arms, personally I think Luffy's going to have a hard time predicting these attacks when they can come from any direction and change direction at will. Naruto can also attack with several of these as can be seen in chapter 572. Yes Luffy can use haki to react to straight attacks like beams of light but I wonder if he can react as well to attacks that come from several different changing directions, I don't think so. I want to see Luffy fight some really strong people before anyone comes to any conclusions about just how good his haki is. IMO Hodi wasn't much better than Arlong and Caeser doesn't seem to be an amazing fighter type either.

Sadly it seems like I ended up making a big ass post anyway.

But like I said, Luffy probably does have the advantage in Speed and Strength but he's not tanking a bijuu bomb and that's why he'll lose. The way I see it, Naruto's smarter than him and he'll use clones to keep Luffy busy, which will work for a while because his clones are efficient, while retreating back and fire off a bijuu bomb.

Chapter 555 page 13 on the site I'm using. Naruto states that Senju mode has helped him better sense his enemies movements. Like I mentioned on the last point in my last post, it's not quite on the level of haki but it's worth mentioning. I don't think it will be the difference maker here though, the bijuu bomb will do that.

Post by zakman (19 posts) See mini bio Level 8

ichigo easy first, naruto second, and i dont know much about tsuna, but from what i can see him and luffy are close

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@ohgodwhy: Dude I see what your saying but I will have to agree to disagree on this one. Also naruto only has 5minutes to do that major damage before he is completely drained. In a fight against 3 others I doubt between dodging he will even have time to get into that state. Also he did not come up with the same power as all the other bijuu all he did was shoot the ball a little below there own to shift its direction. I will admit that was a pretty impressive technique though.

The noah was going to destroy fisman island by the way. So it was quite larger than a mountain. The scenary was close to the vary depths of the ocean because if you remember correctly they ran into an underwater volcano down there and still kept going downward. You also must remember luffy had to act smart while trying to destroy the noah. He couldn't go gear 3rd and just step on it or punch it because the momentum from his giant fists would probably just propel it faster to fishman island and he doesn't possess the power to just magically obliterate objects so the debree would probably destroy a lot of fishman island as well. He had to do it like he tried because then it would leave little pieces of debree. So long story short the Noah was mountain level+.

Also I agree Naruto is fast but he hasn't learnt to control his speed and he isn't going to be able to tag luffy. Those were light beams the Pacifista shot they even said they were modeled the same as kizaru's beams. Luffy didn't even go second gear to dodge them he just moved his neck and said "That's slow..". Saying Haki is only capable of dodging straight beams is BS and you know it. Also Hordy could have probably obliterated arrlong. If he was arlong level Usoop would have just had to uppercut him and it would be over. Luffy was capable of predicting hordy's attack with his back turned.

Also Luffy is probably way smarter than naruto when it comes to battle. To tag luffy with a bijuu bomb he would have to shoot them from all directions because it coming from one direction just doesn't cut it. To me the fight comes down to their speed,strength, prediction ability and battle experience. Luffy trumps Naruto in all these categories. Yes the bijuu bomb is powerful but it is only uni directional its not like it can turn and chase luffy if he decides to speed out of there in gear second. Worse case scenario is that he is still in range of the blasts outer rings and he gets hit with his haki up which that won't penetrate.

But like I said, we will have to agree to disagree.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@All_StarSupes: Um obviously normal ichigo is not as powerful as final getsuga ichigo. And Juha can probably stomp everyone in this thread except a dying will tsuna with ease through battle experience and skill alone so that isn't even a factor. Hordy was able to tag luffy because luffy was in a bubble and in sea water. He was so limited it wasn't even negotiable that hordy had a 100% advantage. Hordy is faster than all these guys put together when he is in water filled with energy steroids. Luffy had no advantage on his side against hordy. If you can honestly say he was capable of doing anything in sea water where he is suppose to just freeze up,incapable of moving at all, and sink to the depths(which he was actually capable of releasing and retracting his hand in) then you probably haven't read much into One piece.

Post by xtremekidx (35 posts) See mini bio Level 8

even though i am a luffy fan,i dont think he has enough to put down the other three .....atleast not from the current stats but in the future.....possible...

Post by All_StarSupes (781 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne: Oh dear, I haven't read much OP??? Explain why Luffy wasn't able to dodge the dragon, nor was he able to avoid the hit from the steroid child in the current arc.

Post by zakman (19 posts) See mini bio Level 8

ichigo wins do to speed alone, eny character from bleach that know flash step can beat eny naruto character

Post by taichokage (14,840 posts) See mini bio Level 20
^For the most part that is true, but Naruto himself is one of the exceptions.
Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@All_StarSupes: I didn't want to get onto that because that is just stupid. Luffy does not have to use his haki to avoid things not dangerous to his life. He is a rubber man. Blunt hits won't even scratch him remember~

Post by ImDictatorBowDown (2,214 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@zakman: Tsuna would win, hes the fastest and has the highest destructive capabilities, Naruto has recently surpassed Luffy whos speed is comparable to Bleach, So second is either Naruto or Ichigo then Luffy

Post by zakman (19 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@ImDictatorBowDown: like i said, i dont know much about tsuna but, i do know alot about the rest of them,and ichigo wins do to speed alone, i have a vary large argument about this and i will post it if you would like.

Post by zakman (19 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@taichokage: would you also like to see what a have on the subject?

Post by taichokage (14,840 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Absolutely. Although I think I agree already. At least outside of Tsuna, Ichigo is probably the strongest.
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