naruto vs ichigo vs luffy

Topic started by tronboy on March 25, 2012. Last post by SilverGalford 1 year, 6 months ago.
Post by YouFinished (1,027 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@Yusuke52 said:

@YouFinished: I never said that you said he was incase at the center I said "You make out like he is incased at the center" And mountains worth of rubble on top of him? please he is around 100 hundred meters (More than likely less give its size before he was encased) from the surface, at most he has a hills worth of debis directly onto of him not allowing him to move. Which would be easy for him to break out of if he transformed.

first of all, rocks can no be compressed into one whole object. where did you get that from? the planets formed because of the suns heat. i don't see how your coal example applies, since its dead plant matter that forms it and not bones, also the fact it takes millions of years makes your point moot.

First of all our planet was compressed into a sphere by its gravity field, and aside from its tectonic plates it one solid object. Same goes for our moon, Debris from Earth knocked into orbit and then compressed into a natural satilite that orbits our planet, and again it was compressed into one solid object created from many large rocks. If the gravity field or pressure on the object is strong enough then it will smooth out the object and form a structurally sound object. As for the coal I ment to say organic life, so that was my bad. But why do you believe that makes my point moot? I was trying to show you that when exposed to extreme pressure or gravity if will combine into one object, which I did... the fact that it takes millions years is irrelivent in this case since pain used gravity manipulation he would have been able to replicate the pressure that the organic matter was exposed to over those millions of years in the span of a few seconds. But whatever we will just go round in circles becasue of this anyway so I say we just leave it at that and save our wrists the possible RSI.

@Yusuke52 said:

@YouFinished: There is no evidence to suggest that naruto was at the center of the gravity well, he is in fact quite close to the surface of the Chibaku Tensei (Deep enough to render him immobile but no more) since it had already started to form before he joined the main sphere.

100 meters? where are you getting that from? the fact the shpere was still forming after he was buried for a few pages. and its not just the rocks, there's also the gravity force naruto is withstanding, the same force that pulverized the mountain range. to clear up planet formation; planets do form from collision of different space debris, the collisions produce enough heat for the debris to fuse, the sun's heat acts on the planet depending on their distance from it (look at mercury and neptune) . it does not occur from gravity and pressure alone but if you really believe it does i would like to see where your getting this info from. and your coal example is moot because its not rocks. simple as that. its dead plant matter which if far less dense than a rock. in what way does that relate? think about it. 
 

Town+ level means an attack greater than town level but less than City/Mountain level, nothing more. How you got an exact range to this rating of destruction I will never know. And once again I never said he was at mountain level I said he was close, and thats in regards to its place on the scale. It could be closer to Mountain level than you think, but there is no way to know for sure. unless you were at the center of the blast and can tell us the energy released?.

what makes you think its close, because of the "+"? i just explained to you in my last post, you have to multiply  town level by 100  to get to mountain level. assuming this "+" makes it close to mountain and covers this gap just because its next up on the chart is wrong. you have to consider the actually blast area. and your right there is no way to tell for sure, but a calc is the most accurate method of measurement we have. to play "there's no way to know for sure" card and assume its close to mountain level for the sake of your argument is just poor debating.  

And no I dont act like consecutive hits would build and add up. What is worse 1 strong punch in one second or 1,000,000 light punches in one second? Obviously the latter. Same applies for Ichigo, while he is not as destructive as Naruto he can hit more attacks in the time it takes naruto to use his most destructive attack. I would sooner spend 10 seconds hitting 100's of mid ranged attacks than I would spend those 10 seconds charging up a high level attack.

Same logic can be applied like this. A .50 BMG is not able to penatrate an M1A1 Abrams outright, but a second shot to the same location will go straight through, why? because it was weakened. You make out like Narutos Cloak cannot be broken by anything short of a mountain buster, no matter how many attacks are use against it, it will not weaken at all until it is met by a mountain busting attack. Each of Ichigos attack will weaken the defence he has and he will break through sooner or later. Its no different than susanoo (To is visual composition and look), it can be broken through if it is hit repeatedly with strong attacks, and while it might have mountain level durability (No I am not stating that susanoo has mountain level durability), enough strong attacks in a short period of time WILL take its toll on the cloak.

 your example is a  different situation. .50 bmg can penetrate steel. the difference in the tanks  durability due to its material its made out of and .50 bmg's penetration power is not that far. the gab between hill busting and mountain durability is too great for that to example to even to apply.  only reason i "make out" that naruto cant be weakened is because the attack is far to inferior to naruto's durability. for it to be weakened through lesser consecutive attacks they would have to be close mountain busting which ichigo's are not. 
Post by One_Piece_God (540 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Destinyheroknight said

Well, Ichigo at peak is his Final Getsuga Tenshou. Which he can only stay in that form about a minute or two (it probably less then that)

So, Naruto will win (since he can stay in his form more longer)

There are many characters that can only stay in full powered state for a short period of time just because somebody weaker can stay in there fully powered state for a little bit longer does not give them the win.

@Hellos: Not all of what you said was acurate but I really can't be asked anymore..Ichigo wins overall.

@sickVisionz said:

I keep seeing Pain's Chibaku Tensei brought up as an example that Naruto can tank mountain level attacks. This simply isn't what happened. Naruto was never in the center of that attack. It was already massive once he made contact with it and he was hit with hills or small mountains that had been reduced to small boulders. His feat there isn't really a good example of his durability, unless you you're talking about boulderized hills.

Ichigo, especially hollow Ichigo is a going to be a tough competitor if only because we have yet to see an upper limit to his power. He's never really been attacked during a fight. Ulquiorra was god mode Espada and was getting tossed around left and right and never even landed a hit on Ichigo and had his attacks either obliterated in a counter or were tanked. FGT Ichigo ate an attack that seemed to have a similar destructive force as Ulqu's arrows and it burned up his skin. At least with that we can say that an attack of that calibur does x damage (which was just burnt skin). Hollow Ichigo doesn't really have any examples of taking damage. He just beats everyone with ease and only goes away when Ichigo wills him to go away. Because of this, there's no telling if a Bijuu bomb would destroy him or if he could tank it with his bare hands.

Also, Ichigo is fast. So fast that it looks like he's teleporting when he moves and fast enough to disorient Ulquiorra during his fight. I'm not sure why he would even allow himself to get hit by a bijuu bomb to begin with.

I wanted to say something similar to this after reading the Naruto wanking above, good job.

Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@YouFinished: Jesus I ask you to explain Neptune and you explain how Mercury and Venus were formed? They are the only planets that would have the possiblity of being formed in that way due to their distance from the sun every planet past them is to far. Like I said the Sun has no play in how our planets are formed because its heat is not great enough given the distance WE are let alone the the planets past us. Once Large clumps of rock colide in space, and IF they get caught and pulled into another Star or Planets orbit then they will slowly pull passing rocks by. Build up over 1000's if not millions of years. The only heat used to help our planet form is from the initial impact of the 2 coliding rocks, where you got this idea that the suns heat is great enough at this distance to help melt rock is beyond me, never mind the other planets past us. Our planet, Earth is only here because of luck, 2 rocks managed to colide and then get caught in orbit around the sun, not too far from it and not to close to it, just the right distance so we could form over millions of years.

And I also see you havent listening in Geography because if you had you would know that Coal is a sedimentary rock type, making it a... *sigh* "A rock", Forget what its made of, its classification is a rock, and scientifically its a rock and geologicaly its ... a rock, no big speech from you will change this. Which I say once again... ... ... "How does that make my point moot?" I mean like I said befo... wow I have some serious deja vu so if you want to know what said before just look back becasue this will be the 3rd time I will have posted this now.

the + is an unspecified amount of destructive power greater than that of Town level but less than that of Mountain/City. Can you show me anything dispute this point? But whatever I said before it really shant matter anyway, since the fact that they both cause circular explosions, the fact they they are long range attacks and they fact that they have to be formed before they are fired makes they a good comparision for one another, This has nothing to do with their destructive potential.

Wow I never really want to post scans to prove someone wrong unless I have to but fine.

From the start of the formation of the Chibaku Tensei until naruto is physicaly caught in the main body, IN DESCENDING ORDER.

Ok as we can see in the 2nd to last image and in the last image, the gradient of the curve of the sphere is far to great at that point to constitute a good deep burial in the Jutsu and in the 2nd to last/last image we see that naruto was avoiding more debris until he was ultimately caught in the rock, and as we can see from the first few images naruto was not clearly affected by the gravity pull because he himself was not pulled or lifted towards the sphere, only the surrounding enviroment. So what we can gather from this is that the gravity pull got weaker over time until the sphere had formed fully (Last image), At which point Pain was holding the entire creation in place with, either his own power, or keeping a ligher gravity well in place to keep it suspended in the air. You can see naruto is not significantly affected by the gravity, which you claimed was acting down upon him making you point in that regard void.

As for the few hundred meters part, We can clearly see that the gradiant of the curve of the sphere in the last image is one of a near fully formed Chibaku Tensei, and Naruto was only trapped inside it on the 2nd to last panel on the last page making the last panel something that happened directly after when Naruto was contained, A fully formed Chibaku Tensei. As I have said so far it had more or less finished lifting and pulling debris into the sphere by the time Naruto was buried under in, and that once again is where I get 100 or less meters from. And I hate to repeat myself for the third time now but, at most he would have a hills level of soil and rock on him... not a mountains worth.

Ok and to finish off. The example is no different at all, if sufficent damage is done to a target not giving him time to repair the damage, subsequent attacks will weaken the target until it has been breached or destroyed. Same thing with Ichigo, while his Cloak will outright stand the blast of a mountain buster, it will take damage from his attacks. He will be attacking it so fast that it will have little time to react and repair the damage, via pouring more chakra into the cloak and then hardening it. Kurama will think he is being attacked from all sides at once, and while Ichigo will not be able to break through with his initial attack, subsequent attacks will keep denting him until he breaks through.

You make out like no matter how many ninja are attacking that cloak unless they have an attack capable of busting mountains in their midst then they will not break through AT ALL, no matter how many times they attack and no matter how power their attacks are, they will not break through at all, in fact they will not even dent the thing. That is just horrible judgement on you part, Ichigo's initial attack will weaken it, not destroy it, the subsequent attacks on the weakened area will destroy it since it has no time to repair given the speed of Ichigos attacks.

Not to mention you have yet to say how Naruto will trump Ichigo in a CQB situation given that Ichigo is more skilled at that type of confrontation and has fought enemies as large as the Cloak itself.

Post by Destinyheroknight (10,171 posts) See mini bio Level 21

@One_Piece_God:

There are many characters that can only stay in full powered state for a short period of time just because somebody weaker can stay in there fully powered state for a little bit longer does not give them the win.

Well, Naruto can win

Naruto is pretty fast and have the power of shadow clones, he can survive long enough for Ichigo to lose his powers (power isn't everything)

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@Destinyheroknight: Why are we assuming that Ichigo would lose his powers, even presuming that we're talking FGT Ichigo? He only lost those powers after using the Final Getsuga Tensho, so provided he didn't use that specific technique, he'd be able to maintain that level of power, presumably indefinitely. Which Naruto couldn't overcome for an extended period of time, if at all.

Post by One_Piece_God (540 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Destinyheroknight: Fine Naruto wins *sigh*

@JonSmith said:

@Destinyheroknight: Why are we assuming that Ichigo would lose his powers, even presuming that we're talking FGT Ichigo? He only lost those powers after using the Final Getsuga Tensho, so provided he didn't use that specific technique, he'd be able to maintain that level of power, presumably indefinitely. Which Naruto couldn't overcome for an extended period of time, if at all.

Thank you JonSmith.

Post by tronboy (425 posts) See mini bio Level 9
naruto all day he has to win this
Post by Hellos (2,482 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@One_Piece_God said:

@Hellos: Not all of what you said was acurate but I really can't be asked anymore..Ichigo wins overall.

Would help to elaborate on what was then, but whatever.

@sickVisionz said:

I keep seeing Pain's Chibaku Tensei brought up as an example that Naruto can tank mountain level attacks. This simply isn't what happened. Naruto was never in the center of that attack. It was already massive once he made contact with it and he was hit with hills or small mountains that had been reduced to small boulders. His feat there isn't really a good example of his durability, unless you you're talking about boulderized hills.

Ichigo, especially hollow Ichigo is a going to be a tough competitor if only because we have yet to see an upper limit to his power. He's never really been attacked during a fight. Ulquiorra was god mode Espada and was getting tossed around left and right and never even landed a hit on Ichigo and had his attacks either obliterated in a counter or were tanked. FGT Ichigo ate an attack that seemed to have a similar destructive force as Ulqu's arrows and it burned up his skin. At least with that we can say that an attack of that calibur does x damage (which was just burnt skin). Hollow Ichigo doesn't really have any examples of taking damage. He just beats everyone with ease and only goes away when Ichigo wills him to go away. Because of this, there's no telling if a Bijuu bomb would destroy him or if he could tank it with his bare hands.

Also, Ichigo is fast. So fast that it looks like he's teleporting when he moves and fast enough to disorient Ulquiorra during his fight. I'm not sure why he would even allow himself to get hit by a bijuu bomb to begin with.

I don't get it, why won't the beast bomb when it hits the ground not hit Ichigo? The level of damage it can do is massive in scale.

@JonSmith said:

@Destinyheroknight: Why are we assuming that Ichigo would lose his powers, even presuming that we're talking FGT Ichigo? He only lost those powers after using the Final Getsuga Tensho, so provided he didn't use that specific technique, he'd be able to maintain that level of power, presumably indefinitely. Which Naruto couldn't overcome for an extended period of time, if at all.

Thread has them all at peak in the OP.

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@Hellos said:

I don't get it, why won't the beast bomb when it hits the ground not hit Ichigo? The level of damage it can do is massive in scale.

Thread has them all at peak in the OP.

One, Ichigo's literal FIRST feat when he arrived from the Dangai was flash stepping him and Aizen out of the city and to a large field littered with crags, too fast for Aizen to react to. It's reasonable to assume he could similarly Flash Step out of the Beast Bomb's radius of destruction.

@tronboy: ... Are you serious, or just trolling, Trollboy? After all this debate, I find it incredibly difficult to believe that you really think Naruto could win this.

Post by Hellos (2,482 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@JonSmith said:

@Hellos said:

I don't get it, why won't the beast bomb when it hits the ground not hit Ichigo? The level of damage it can do is massive in scale.

Thread has them all at peak in the OP.

One, Ichigo's literal FIRST feat when he arrived from the Dangai was flash stepping him and Aizen out of the city and to a large field littered with crags, too fast for Aizen to react to. It's reasonable to assume he could similarly Flash Step out of the Beast Bomb's radius of destruction.

I honestly can't remember how it was depicted in the manga, but I thought he just grabbed his face and leaped away from the town to somewhere empty. No idea how far away it was or if it was flash-step. Regardless, the beast bomb's potential destructive range is absolutely absurd, so I'm not entirely convinced he can.

Post by tronboy (425 posts) See mini bio Level 9

naruto takes this

Post by Destinyheroknight (10,171 posts) See mini bio Level 21

@JonSmith:

Why are we assuming that Ichigo would lose his powers, even presuming that we're talking FGT Ichigo? He only lost those powers after using the Final Getsuga Tensho, so provided he didn't use that specific technique, he'd be able to maintain that level of power, presumably indefinitely. Which Naruto couldn't overcome for an extended period of time, if at all.

FGT is Ichigo at his peak

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@tronboy: Either present evidence and a counterargument, or please be quiet. We get your opinion already: You think Naruto would win this. You repeatedly saying it is not pushing your case forward.

@Hellos said:

I honestly can't remember how it was depicted in the manga, but I thought he just grabbed his face and leaped away from the town to somewhere empty. No idea how far away it was or if it was flash-step. Regardless, the beast bomb's potential destructive range is absolutely absurd, so I'm not entirely convinced he can.

Considering the speed with which the ground was covered, it's safe to assume it was a flash step: Aizen didn't have time to react or break free, so it had to be absurdly fast. Whether it was actually flash step or not, it was quick enough to cover that much ground in an instant, so it's a safe bet to assume Ichigo could cover at least that range with ease. Even if Naruto's Beast Bomb is a mountain buster, Ichigo could presumably avoid it, if not kill Naruto as he charged it, and then launch a counter attack.

@Destinyheroknight said:

FGT is Ichigo at his peak

Perhaps, but that is just a technique, not necessarily a state of being. It's essentially just Ichigo becoming cloaked in the move, then launching it. I'd taken Ichigo post-Dangai training as his peak as an actual state. So the feats for that are what I'm using as reference.

Post by Destinyheroknight (10,171 posts) See mini bio Level 21

@JonSmith:

Perhaps, but that is just a technique, not necessarily a state of being. It's essentially just Ichigo becoming cloaked in the move, then launching it. I'd taken Ichigo post-Dangai training as his peak as an actual state. So the feats for that are what I'm using as reference.

All forms are techniques, FGT is Ichigo at his peak (he combine with Zangetsu)

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@Destinyheroknight: Not necessarily. Final Getsuga Tensho is the move he uses to combine with Zangetsu to launch the FGT. He has no feats moving around using the form, so it is just a technique he uses. Naruto's Nine Tails Mode is stated specifically to be a mode, same with Nightmare Luffy, though he isn't being used here. FGT is not, in my books, a mode. Post-Dangai, definitely. Final Getsuga Tensho? Technique, not mode.

Post by Destinyheroknight (10,171 posts) See mini bio Level 21

@JonSmith:

A mode is

a particular type or form of something

Ichigo change his form, Aizen even said "What is that form?" The technique allowed Ichigo to use his full power

Peak is

the highest or most important point or level

So yeah, FGT is Ichigo at his peak

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@Destinyheroknight: I hate to say it like this, because it makes me sound unnecessarily stubborn and unwilling to accept counterarguments, but I will continue to maintain that the Final Getsuga Tensho is a technique, not a mode. It may appear so because he changes his appearance, but that appearance is merely the preface to the technique, which is subsequently released after the attack. Since Ichigo displayed no ability to move or perform any attack aside from that technique while in that form, I will continue to say it is merely a technique, not a mode, and consider all statements of 'FGT Ichigo' to mean what I define as 'Post-Dangai Training' Ichigo. Ichigo displayed no increased abilities while using the Final Getsuga Tensho, aside from that one shot blast...

If you really wish to continue to dispute this, do you think we can make a separate thread about it on Ichigo's page, put it to a vote for others to decide? I'll make the thread myself, if you like, but it seems ever so slightly off topic here.

Post by Destinyheroknight (10,171 posts) See mini bio Level 21

@JonSmith:

Well, I guess we can agree to disagree. It doesn't really matter to me, I just believe Ichigo's peak is his FGT (That why I believe Naruto have a chance at winning)

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@Destinyheroknight: Fair enough. Still, I'd be interested in getting a relatively objective view...

Post by taichokage (12,642 posts) See mini bio Level 20
I don't consider FGT Ichigo his peak form. 1 it was merely a form he needed to execute a particular move. 2 he has no feats in that form to prove that he is at his best there. His best feats are from his Dangai form. Think about it. If Naruto or anyone else has a better shot at beating his FGT form rather than his Dangai form, isnt that indirectly saying that his Dangai form as a whole is stronger or at least more effective? (which it certainly was). Besides, even if FGT form is Ichigo at his best, he doesn't actually lose his powers until he uses mugetsu.
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