Battles

@judge: Roshi DIRECTLY STATES HE IS USELESS AGAINST NAPPA 
 

O, WOW moonbusting Muten Roshi says the Saiyains (Nappa and Vegeta)  are so far ahead of him he'd be useless, 
 
Guess im right, moonbusting WILL NOT hurt Nappa 
 
Show me Iron Man destroying more than a moon, or where he is stated as being able to, or else he simply has no way to hurt nappa.

@hitsusatsu11 said:

"@Hellos: Your extremely wrong on all points you've just said.  
 
Dragonball stronger than Dragonball Z????   
 
Roshi and Picolo are stronger than Nappa??? When Picolo Daimaio's henchmen killed Roshi, then Picolo himself was killed by Nappa?  
 
Dragon Ball and Dragonball Z are different sereies'??? In Japan there is NO distinction between DB and DBZ manga, its all one long running show.  
 
You don't care what completely different characters do feats wise, even when Nappa is CLEARLY superior in every conceivable way???   
 
Roshi's moonbust less taxing then Picolo's????Roshi used max power to destroy the moon, Piccollo did it effortlessly, with no charge and one hand.
 
You are gonna tell me with a straight face than Master Roshi at the beginning of Dragonball with his moond estroying attack could kill Nappa????????  Picollo destroyed the moon, then trained them couldn't hurt Nappa.  I'm staggered and surprised at you making such insane claims. I'm starting to see a definite anti DBZ pattern from you. Using feats from characters who directly got PWND by Nappa (Picollo) or who would be useless against him (Roshi) are admissible.   My last scan pretty much proved Iron Man loses. Why not instead of trolling logic, show some Iron Man scans.   -Iron man needs to dish out blasts much more powerful than the magnitude required to destroy the moon in order to hurt Nappa, you must prove he can.  -You must prove Iron Man can take multi-moon to planet magnitude destruction which Nappa can dishout ( as his attacks are>>>> in magnitude than Picollo's, which effortlessly wiped out the moon) -You must show me Iron Man capable of dodging lightspeed or FTL beams to show he could even dodge Picollo's attacks, Nappa's attacks are much more deadly.      If you have a good argument that Iron Man can acomplish these above three things then you have an argument. However if your going to argue Nappa is incapable of them, then please do not respond to me. It is widely accepted by anyone who knows DBZ that the above three-points are true, and if you do not accept them then we're done here. "

I don't see how I could be, but lets give it a whirl. 
 
Goku can't even move with 40 tons in DBZ. Yet non muscle neck Goku was judo tossing a giant a giant Piccolo. Not to mention his pole climbing feat to the Moon is simply something he can't do in DBZ period. 
I never said they where stronger than Nappa, I just said they have better feats with their energy blasts and are completely different characters.  
 
But don't let me prevent you from shoving words down my mouth. 
  
DB to DBZ is DBZ to GT. Simple as that. 
  
Apparently not, considering all he did was one city buster while Roshi in DB has his Moonbusting feat and Piccolo has his in DBZ. A good chunk of the cast hasn't blown up anything big, especially Nappa who didn't even have a fraction of the on panel time. 
 
I don't at all remember it being easy for Piccolo to do and for Roshi as shown up there I don't see him being exausted. Maybe post a scan of after said moonbust, because in the anime he was visibly fatigued. 
 
Much less killed Nappa, so I'm not seeing whats to debate about that. They could hurt Nappa, hell Krillin had the power to cut Nappa in half with the destructo disk and Gohan was dishing out damage on him.  
Nothing anti DBZ about me, there is just about as much proof that Nappa can bust planets as Dr. Manhattan is Omnipotent. What I mean by that is neither of them have the feats to prove what their  fans preach they can do and you cannot prove at all your statements about lightspeed much less busting planets when his biggest feat consists of destroying a city with the snap of his fingers.  
 
I'll have to check that last scan then? Nope a city buster despite however flashy it may be isn't going to kill Iron Man, much less with his shields up which have protected entire groups of people from nukes and him himself casually sitting through multple nuclear blasts. I'll happily post the scans if you'd like. 
 
Ironman doesn't need to dish out blasts anywhere close to that. He could punch a hole through Nappa with his far superior strength if need be. That and the blasts he shoots aren't ki blasts. 
Nappa never showed multi moon busting attacks, hell no one in DBZ was throwing attacks that destroyed mutliple moons. 
 
SHOW ME ANY PROOF THAT NAPPA CAN GO AT LIGHT SPEED OR FIGHT AT IT. Because thats probably one of the most rediculous statements I've seen in a while. 
 
Oh yeah anyone that knows DBZ is going to tell me Nappa is can fight at light speed. Dear god are you kidding me, your the first person I've ever seen make that claim. 
 
 
If you honestly think I'm being unfair to DBZ, you should check out about every other debate where someone trying to use scans of other characters or  no scans at all and watch me do the exact same thing here. If you don't have the evidence I'm not going to believe said argument.

@hitsusatsu11:
so you ignore my post completly... 
 
DB doesnt = DBZ  
roshi destoys mountains but krillin can break a steel door? 
 
using DB scans for a DBZ fight is nonsense

*sigh* fanboys

@judge said:

"*sigh* fanboys "

I wouldn't call anyone here a fanboy. Just big fans of said franchises. Although some of the claims being made here are flat out rediculous.

No, where done. I've suffered your trollin long enough. 
 
Goku could lift more than 100 tons. That was 40 tons ISOMETRICALLY and it was on a kaioworld, on previous kaioworlds the gravity was 10x earth.  
 
I showed the scan where ROSHI DIRECTLY SAYS HE NOTHING COMPARED TO NAPPA. this means Nappa>>>>Moonbusting. 
 
Picollo destroyed the moon is a second or two, light takes 1.5 seconds to reach the moon, DUH, what does this tell us??? It means ki blasts even early on in dbz can go lightspeed, and those who dodge them have similar speed in combat, Its not ridiculous its logic, MANY people including others ON THIS THREAD (Mortien and Mr. Shin off the top pf my head) make the same claim. You don't understand how things work nor how power is built up in DBZ, or your trolling. Either or your simply failing. 
 
Iron Man rips Nappa's head ???? 
 
Na, other way around. 
Scanned em myself. Tony ambushes an Iron Man suit, takes off its helmet with a cuffling.  
LOL 
Nappa will friggin wreck this guy. Your just a comic wanker is all, you ignore logic and what others show you, and show no convincing scans. I think were done here.

And nappa destroyed MUCH MORE than a city by raising 2 fingers 
 



Notice how it says Nappa triggered massive earthquakes that destroy MULTIPLE cities. All by raising 2 fingers, not charging an attack.

Until anyone shows Iron Man being able to take the above attack, Nappa wins simply by smiling and raising 2 fingers. 
 
@judge said:

" @hitsusatsu11: so you ignore my post completly...  DB doesnt = DBZ  roshi destoys mountains but krillin can break a steel door?  using DB scans for a DBZ fight is nonsense "

Im ignoring you because your acting like an idiot, let me say this one more time so it sinks in good.... 
 
THEIR IS ONE ONLY DRAGONBALL MANGA, DBZ MANAGA DOES NOT EXIST. 
 
OH, LOOK AT THIS "THE BATTLE AGAINST NAPPA" IN WHAT MANGA? DRAGONBALL!!!!!! THE Z IS JUST ADDED TO AMERICAN VERSION MANGA, IN REALITY THERE IS ONE CANON MANGA THAT GO'S FROM PILAF, TO MAJIN BUU.

@hitsusatsu11 said:

"No, where done. I've suffered your trollin long enough. " 

 
If I'm trolling here then just about every debate I've ever had on vice or vine is trolling. 
 

"Goku could lift more than 100 tons. That was 40 tons ISOMETRICALLY and it was on a kaioworld, on previous kaioworlds the gravity was 10x earth." 

In base form he can't.  
 
It was outright stated to be 40 tons by the characters present, why would King Kai call something 40 tons when it would really be 400 tons? Does that at all make sense to you? Especially considering Goku wouldn't even consider that.
Hell the gravity of what was likely the Grand Kai's world was never stated at all.  
 
I could easily turn around and say it was 4 tons in the 10x gravity scenario either way. 
We don't know if it was 40 tons on each limb or 10 tons on each limbs, the gravity of said planet or which planet it even was. 
At best we can guess it was the Grand Kai's world since they where all very much dead at the time, the planet was much larger than King Kai's and Goku was supposed to train their for 7 years. 
 
Either way your statement is beyond false.

"I showed the scan where ROSHI DIRECTLY SAYS HE NOTHING COMPARED TO NAPPA. this means Nappa>>>>Moonbusting. "

Not at all, unless your going to claim Vegeta blasted with a moon buster or Goku's fists are suddently moonbusting.
 

"Picollo destroyed the moon is a second or two, light takes 1.5 seconds to reach the moon, DUH, what does this tell us???" 

Theres a time stamp on said scan? And is that how fast it takes light to hit the moon?
 

"It means ki blasts even early on in dbz can go lightspeed." 

So your going to sit there and claim the characters can all go at light speed?  

"and those who dodge them have similar speed in combat, Its not ridiculous its logic, MANY people including others ON THIS THREAD (Mortien and Mr. Shin off the top pf my head) make the same claim. You don't understand how things work nor how power is built up in DBZ, or your trolling. Either or your simply failing." 

 
I've never seen either of them claim Nappa is light speed, perhaps you can quote or give me a link to them saying that. Especially Mortien who I know without a doubt wouldn't make such a claim.
 

"Iron Man rips Nappa's head ???? " 

 I didn't say that, though it is completely possible due to their vast difference in physical strength.
 

"Na, other way around. Scanned em myself. Tony ambushes an Iron Man suit, takes off its helmet with a cuffling.  
LOL 
Nappa will friggin wreck this guy. Your just a comic wanker is all, you ignore logic and what others show you, and show no convincing scans. I think were done here. " 

 The irony of this is killing me, I didn't ignore anything you just didn't provide any evidence that can support your claims about Nappa. Pulling things from Dragonball from completely different characters and Piccolo's one moon busting feat doesn't add up.

Okay I was right, there is absolutely no time reference.

@hitsusatsu11:
so your ignoring the fact that krillin couldnt break down a door? 
your ignoring that goku(DBZ) stated he would die in space but goku(DB) went to the moon? 
your ignoring the fact that goku broke nappa's back with a kick but roshi who is a mountain buster stated he couldnt do anything to stop him? 
 
your just another ignorant fanboy that cant see that DB, DBZ, and GT are flawed beyond comprehension 
 
if goku can break his back (and he can hardly lift 4 tons at the time) what makes you think iron man cant?

@hitsusatsu11 said:

"And nappa destroyed MUCH MORE than a city by raising 2 fingers 
Notice how it says Nappa triggered massive earthquakes that destroy MULTIPLE cities. All by raising 2 fingers, not charging an attack.
Until anyone shows Iron Man being able to take the above attack, Nappa wins simply by smiling and raising 2 fingers. 
 
@judge said:

" @hitsusatsu11: so you ignore my post completly...  DB doesnt = DBZ  roshi destoys mountains but krillin can break a steel door?  using DB scans for a DBZ fight is nonsense "

Im ignoring you because your acting like an idiot, let me say this one more time so it sinks in good.... 
 
THEIR IS ONE ONLY DRAGONBALL MANGA, DBZ MANAGA DOES NOT EXIST. 
 
OH, LOOK AT THIS "THE BATTLE AGAINST NAPPA" IN WHAT MANGA? DRAGONBALL!!!!!! THE Z IS JUST ADDED TO AMERICAN VERSION MANGA, IN REALITY THERE IS ONE CANON MANGA THAT GO'S FROM PILAF, TO MAJIN BUU."

 
None of those scans showed anything more than a city going boom and that it caused earthquakes to surround cities near the epicenter which cut off communication with them. It is an excellent display of more flash than bang, because if said attack was that large a majority of the continent would have been raised, hell the damage could possible end all life on the Earth, including Nappa's and Vegeta's.
Show me the scan where it says multiple cities where destroyed by the Earthquakes. 
 
I'll grab the scans. I doubt they will do much convincing unless it's a planet busting attack, but oh what the hell.

@Hellos said:

 The irony of this is killing me, I didn't ignore anything you just didn't provide any evidence that can support your claims about Nappa. Pulling things from Dragonball from completely different characters and Piccolo's one moon busting feat doesn't add up. "

NAPPA IS A DRAGONBALL CHARCATER, ITS ONE SERIES, with a progression of powers. If you wanna argue GT is downgraded or whatever from Z thats a different debate, but Dragonball and "DBZ" is wholly one and the same manga written by Toriyama that builds upon itself in power, The below cover PROVES Nappa in fact only appears in one manga, DRAGONBALL, not DBZ manga, but Dragonball.
We've done this long enough. 
 
I believe Nappa wins because: 
 
He has higher destructive power than Iron Man (IM), Nappa by raising 2 fingers in a simple gesture destroyed a large region on earth. He is more destructively powerful than confirmed moonbusters, beating one directly in a fight (piccollo) and the other (Roshi) outright stating Nappa was leagues ahead of him.. 
 
I say he has higher durability, attacks form confirmed moonbusters are useless against Nappa. 
 
I say he is faster. Picollo's beam was shown to be about lightspeed, (it took about 1-2 seconds to go from earth to the moon, light takes 1.5 seconds-as well other ki beams later on are FTL, like the final flash) Nappa can routinely dodge beams such as these in combat. He is also faster than bullet timers, and laser dodgers (kid goku) and is faster than Kid Goku who surpassed lightning speed (stated by Popo) 
 
Add to this he is more skilled at fighting, and I think its clear he wins.  
 
If you don't then good for you I don't care. To me the evidence is overhelming in Nappa's favor but your free to believe what you want about fictional drawings on paper fighting each other its all the same to me what you think.

@Hellos said:

"I showed the scan where ROSHI DIRECTLY SAYS HE NOTHING COMPARED TO NAPPA. this means Nappa>>>>Moonbusting. "

Not at all, unless your going to claim Vegeta blasted with a moon buster or Goku's fists are suddently moonbusting.
 

I know I said we are done, and I am done arguing the subject. Just a general point about this. Z senshi if they wish can channel all there destructive power into their fists. 

@judge said:

" @hitsusatsu11: so your ignoring the fact that krillin couldnt break down a door? your ignoring that goku(DBZ) stated he would die in space but goku(DB) went to the moon? your ignoring the fact that goku broke nappa's back with a kick but roshi who is a mountain buster stated he couldnt do anything to stop him?  your just another ignorant fanboy that cant see that DB, DBZ, and GT are flawed beyond comprehension  if goku can break his back (and he can hardly lift 4 tons at the time) what makes you think iron man cant? "

Ya as I've shown, Goku can channel all his power into his fist, or leg if you will, so ya it is stronger than Roshi's strongest attack, and he lifts way more than 4 tons Baka. And ya Kid Goku went to the moon, so can people in DBZ. Freeza said Goku you can't survive in space, cause ya know Nameks in another galaxy and Goku kinda likes to eat and stuff and wants to go home. And the Krillen thing might have been filler i can't recall, and its PIS used to show how useless Krillen and Tien have become. Please use something concrete instead of baseless hate and stop wasting my time with your nonsense. 

 
*steals scans from other thread from mysterious user who wanted to avoid the madness that was Spike" 

His 2 % shield feat. He is the one that triggered the nuke to get rid of the Skrulls. 
 
     




 
No shields with multiple nuke feat.





 
Putting up the shields to soak up an explosion from a booster rocket that was leaking enough high yield propellant to go to mars and back.  
Nice feat for Stark's shields and the Hulk's nigh indestructable shorts.






Stark against the guy that is probably as close to being a herald as anyone that isn't can be. The Collective a walking pew pew of mutant powers from when Wanda got all fruity.






And more big boom's for his shield to soak up easily enough. 





 
Now to show off his old suit for !@#$s and giggles mini black hole durability feat.

















 
But if you feel like showing low ends from completely different suits is going to change the fact Extremis was pretty consistent among different writers to take hits from city busters without so much as a scratch go for it.

@Hellos: Well that comic was the only one I had on hand, I scanned it myself a half hour ago or so. Those are nice scans you showed, and I know Iron Man can do that. Problem is I believe that what Nappa can do is far beyond that. We seem to disagree about this. 
 
I believe Nappa is superior to Iron Man ( and certainly whats shown in those scans) because of: 
 
 "He has higher destructive power than Iron Man (IM), Nappa by raising 2 fingers in a simple gesture destroyed a large region on earth. He is more destructively powerful than confirmed moonbusters, beating one directly in a fight (piccollo) and the other (Roshi) outright stating Nappa was leagues ahead of him.. 
 
I say he has higher durability, attacks form confirmed moonbusters are useless against Nappa. 
 
I say he is faster. Picollo's beam was shown to be about lightspeed, (it took about 1-2 seconds to go from earth to the moon, light takes 1.5 seconds-as well other ki beams later on are FTL, like the final flash) Nappa can routinely dodge beams such as these in combat. He is also faster than bullet timers, and laser dodgers (kid goku) and is faster than Kid Goku who surpassed lightning speed (stated by Popo)"  
 
But as you have said you don't think Nappa capable of destroying a moon or dodging lightspeed ki beams. You seem to put Nappa at around city level in destruction where as I see him as casual moonbusting level. Since we have this fundamental disagreement I think further arguments on this topic between us are futile.   

 @hitsusatsu11 said:

"I know I said we are done, and I am done arguing the subject. Just a general point about this. Z senshi if they wish can channel all there destructive power into their fists. " 

Show all that destructive power in punches and kicks only make craters later on in DBZ, but so far I haven't seen Goku bust a planet with said fist why? 
I can understand the whole using Ki power to enhance their striking power behind the fists, but no one in DBZ showed the physical ower to do anything close to throwing out planet busting kicks and punches.
  
That and Goku mopped the floor with Nappa with ease, he didn't have the whole dramatic DB panel of putting all his power into his final attack like half a dozen Anime protagonists do. 
 
@hitsusatsu11 said: 
 

"Ya as I've shown, Goku can channel all his power into his fist, or leg if you will, so ya it is stronger than Roshi's strongest attack, and he lifts way more than 4 tons Baka. And ya Kid Goku went to the moon, so can people in DBZ. Freeza said Goku you can't survive in space, cause ya know Nameks in another galaxy and Goku kinda likes to eat and stuff and wants to go home. And the Krillen thing might have been filler i can't recall, and its PIS used to show how useless Krillen and Tien have become. Please use something concrete instead of baseless hate and stop wasting my time with your nonsense.    "

 
Badrock wasn't outside the atmosphere if your talking about the movie. He was talking, sweating and breathing like the rest of those characters. The scan itself means very little since it has nothing happening in it other than Frieza making a reference to the film. 
Gotenk didn't go to the moon either.

@Hellos said:

" @hitsusatsu11 said:

"I know I said we are done, and I am done arguing the subject. Just a general point about this. Z senshi if they wish can channel all there destructive power into their fists. " 

Show all that destructive power in punches and kicks only make craters later on in DBZ, 

Well actually 





Here we see Gotenks fooling around and punching Buu form like 50 feet in the air, and creates a huge crater, comparable to a meteor strike this compares very favorably to Superman's punches. 


We see Gotenks punch causes a much stronger impact than a bloodlusted supes punching WW through orbit, which should increase the impact due to velocity, yet Gotenks fooling around makes a larger crater.  

@Hellos said:

"
 Badrock wasn't outside the atmosphere if your talking about the movie. He was talking, sweating and breathing like the rest of those characters. The scan itself means very little since it has nothing happening in it other than Frieza making a reference to the film. 

He is indeed outside the atmosphere in this scan. 

@hitsusatsu11 said:

" @Hellos: Well that comic was the only one I had on hand, I scanned it myself a half hour ago or so. Those are nice scans you showed, and I know Iron Man can do that. Problem is I believe that what Nappa can do is far beyond that. We seem to disagree about this.  I believe Nappa is superior to Iron Man ( and certainly whats shown in those scans) because of:   "He has higher destructive power than Iron Man (IM), Nappa by raising 2 fingers in a simple gesture destroyed a large region on earth. He is more destructively powerful than confirmed moonbusters, beating one directly in a fight (piccollo) and the other (Roshi) outright stating Nappa was leagues ahead of him..  I say he has higher durability, attacks form confirmed moonbusters are useless against Nappa.  I say he is faster. Picollo's beam was shown to be about lightspeed, (it took about 1-2 seconds to go from earth to the moon, light takes 1.5 seconds-as well other ki beams later on are FTL, like the final flash) Nappa can routinely dodge beams such as these in combat. He is also faster than bullet timers, and laser dodgers (kid goku) and is faster than Kid Goku who surpassed lightning speed (stated by Popo)"   But as you have said you don't think Nappa capable of destroying a moon or dodging lightspeed ki beams. You seem to put Nappa at around city level in destruction where as I see him as casual moonbusting level. Since we have this fundamental disagreement I think further arguments on this topic between us are futile.    "

 
I'm not big on believing. It's like the Old Testiment God vs Pre-Retcon Beyonder thread, the Galactus vs Unicron thread, Batman vs the Hulk, Manhattan vs TOAA  through Silver Surfer threads and dear god who else..  
I mean this in the nicest way possible, people say a lot of believing but I'm bigger on the actual on panel feats. You can take a Guess who I argued for in said threads.   

Spiderman has dodged lasers more times than I can count and in the Naruto's anime Haku made claims of light speed in the dub yet Sasuke was tagging him.  
Does that mean the entire Naruto cast and Spiderman faster than light? God no. 
 
I do agree are views are seemingly vastly different on said character and any arguing for said characters are likely going to go nowhere. 

Truth be told thats how it is on the battle forums, despite evidence presented to either one of us we are going to walk away with our different set of opinions believing we are right.

@Hellos said:

. Truth be told thats how it is on the battle forums, despite evidence presented to either one of us we are going to walk away with our different set of opinions believing we are right. "

Very well, there just fiction after all. Well have to agree to disagree I suppose.