Name a character able to defeat Frederica Bernkastel and why?

Topic started by Levance on Sept. 27, 2011. Last post by Dream 2 months, 1 week ago.
Post by Levance (1,846 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Name a character able to defeat this monster

Frederica Bernkastel The witch of miracles from Umineko no naku koro ni (With Game master privileges)

POWERS

Red Truth: Anything she saids in red is the absolute truth and no proof is needed for that.

Blue Truth: Used as a contraargument to deny opponents theory (it can only be denied by the use of red truth). Notice that a blue truth is a theory, therefore, it can be true or not, however, if it isn't denied by red, it becomes the truth

Golden Truth: She doesn't use it, but teorically she can since episode 8, because she adquired the title of Game Master; Allow her to pronounce a truth similar to the red truth that can be superior or inferior to the red; it's used to define rules in the game, for example: to declare facts that cannot be declared with red because of X motive.

Magic: She can use magic in almost all her forms, to fly, teleport, change her appareance, etc. anything she desires

Voyager: She can travel to other dimension, what means, that she can move to a paralel world where things happens in a different way.

Time Travel: She can travel trough time

Inmortal: She doesn't get old, so she can't die this way

Emotional control: In fact she's crazy as hell, however she can control perfectly her emotions, so movements that affects emotions are of no use against her.

Summon Killer cats: As it sounds, she can summon up to ten quadrillion (if no more) feral killer kitties

Scythe: Her weapon is a Dark scythe, which can harvest miracles from reality, and..... tear out the guts of someone

Conceptual presence: Being a Witch voyager in a conceptual level, she cannot be harmed by physical, mental, or spiritual attacks, in addition, she cannot be harmed by common magic, only can be affected by magic or other movement, that attacks in a conceptual level or superior.

*The conceptual level, is a plane that rules over physical, mental, spiritual and magical concepts, and is the plane of the concepts, which means that every conceptual move is destined to attack a concept, that is the significante or meaning of something, to esclarify, If it is something that can be explained, it can be touch by conceptual moves, example, the fact to deny the existence of something by using conceptual moves, means that that thing or living being, never existed , so even reincarnation or resurrection cannot save from this kind of move. It's a bit confusing though

Magic of miracles: Probably her strongest and fearsome ability. She can reset any unfavorable situation creating a miracle, only if the probability to get a favorable situation in the same context but under difference circunstances is different to a probability of 0% (even with a probability of 0,000000001% she can save herself); so even if she is about to be defeated, theorically, is there was a chance to avoid to be defeated, she can use her magic of miracles

*Please notice that every move of Bernkastel affects in a conceptual plane, so, they cannot be avoided by physical, spiritual, or mental methods, also if the magic use to avoid Bern's attack isn't in a conceptual level, is useless

So I want to name a character able to defeat her

PD: I readed in topics that god characters aren't allowed, however, even is she is nearly to be a god, she isn't one

FANBOY SEGMENT

I'll add Bernkastel's battle theme, because it's epic, gives emotion to the battle, and I'm an ultra hyper mega fan of her. She is a ruthless, evil and troler witch, the fanbase labeled her as Trollkastel (because is the trolest character in When they cry universe). So we can call her as an epic bitch. Her other title besides Witch of miracles is: The cruelest witch of all

RULES

*RULE: NO GODLIKE BEING IS ALLOWED

To esclarify, I'm not doing this to prove a character superiority, because there no exist a character that can be considered superior to others. I'm doing this because it's fun

Post by TheRedRose (1,645 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Any Low-mid tiers in Saint Seiya, that being the Gold Saints....

Post by TheRedRose (1,645 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Because all Gold Saints are FTL, Multi star durability, telepathy, telekinesis, energy manipulation, energy absorption, healing, atomic destruction, multi star destruction, travel through dimensions, space bending, precognition, light manipulation, cosmos awareness, and light manipulation. This all applies to every Gold Saint any one who's mastered the 7th sense in the SS series. Also their cloth can only be froze by absolute zero temperatures.

Post by Levance (1,846 posts) See mini bio Level 12

What does it means FTL?, anyway, the movements of the saints from saint seiya, doesn't reach the conceptual level (which is superior to physical, mental or spiritual level), so they cannot harm Bern, also, the magic in when they cry universe is almost unlimited, this way Bern, can do absolutely anything that she wants (however she cannot use magic from titles, because that magic belongs to the ones that posseses the title, for example, she cannot use magic of origins, that allows to create anything from zero), And in the rare case that a saint is able to defeat Bern, because of all previously explained, Bern will always have a posibility different to 0% so she can use her magic of miracles to save herself. Also is important to notice, that the speed of a concept is superior to the speed of light. Terms like senses means nothing in the conceptual plane, for example, a person doesn't see things because he/she has completely functional eyes, a person can see in a conceptual plane, because of the fact that he can see.

Last, Bern can use all that I have said and use it to attack a saint with a blue truth, this one, being a conceptual attack cannot be avoided, and it can only be destroyed by a red truth.

That doesn't mean that Bern is an invincible character, I know about a character able to defeat her, that is from a different universe than the Umineko universe, but I don't want to reveal this character, because I wanna see other characters, that may able to defeat her.

Post by MohsinMan99 (1,777 posts) See mini bio Level 21
 

@TheRedRose


I'm not sure if the GS are going to be enough for this. Apparently, this witch can affect things on a multiversal scale going by the page atleast: 
Post by TheRedRose (1,645 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Levance: FTL= Faster than Light, anyone can simply blitz her before she has the chance to even make a thought or move. Also if they harm astral projectiles from an actual God why can't they harm her? There's been cases where Universal entities have been defeated by these beings. Such as those being the titans. You cannot apply logic to animation hence explaining why they move FTL and does she even have a way to even dent their armor? Might showing me any feats that can par with destroying multiple stars at once? The Saints are highly powerful and most are massively FTL! Unless she has great reaction then she's doomed other than that any other saint can just blitz her within a nanosecond.

Post by TheRedRose (1,645 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@MohsinMan99: I need feats my friend... And WTF? << They better not be overhyping this character

Post by MohsinMan99 (1,777 posts) See mini bio Level 21
@Levance said:

What does it means FTL?, anyway, the movements of the saints from saint seiya, doesn't reach the conceptual level (which is superior to physical, mental or spiritual level), so they cannot harm Bern, also, the magic in when they cry universe is almost unlimited, this way Bern, can do absolutely anything that she wants (however she cannot use magic from titles, because that magic belongs to the ones that posseses the title, for example, she cannot use magic of origins, that allows to create anything from zero), And in the rare case that a saint is able to defeat Bern, because of all previously explained, Bern will always have a posibility different to 0% so she can use her magic of miracles to save herself. Also is important to notice, that the speed of a concept is superior to the speed of light. Terms like senses means nothing in the conceptual plane, for example, a person doesn't see things because he/she has completely functional eyes, a person can see in a conceptual plane, because of the fact that he can see.

Last, Bern can use all that I have said and use it to attack a saint with a blue truth, this one, being a conceptual attack cannot be avoided, and it can only be destroyed by a red truth.

That doesn't mean that Bern is an invincible character, I know about a character able to defeat her, that is from a different universe than the Umineko universe, but I don't want to reveal this character, because I wanna see other characters, that may able to defeat her.

You are going to be surprised to find out that there "ARE" plenty of characters who would be able to defeat her from other fictions though. I've to go right now so I'll talk to you about this later. The other users will explain to you anyways.
Post by MohsinMan99 (1,777 posts) See mini bio Level 21
@TheRedRose: VN's don't have much in the way of displayable feats anyway. Long walls of text that describe techniques are a norm there so pretty much you'll be getting them. Since, that is the canon source anyway.
Post by sceonn (757 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Levance: Giorno Giovanna! I don't know this Frederica Bernkastel character but i don't see her beating this guy.

Post by TheRedRose (1,645 posts) See mini bio Level 10

If not the Saints then I bring Hades who curbstomps her with his index finger

Post by ReiKai (3,530 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Hyunbing, from Chronicles of the Cursed Sword. He has "Word of Command" which makes anything he says into Reality. Essentially it is the Word of God. Can also invoke the Divine Heavenly Formation which enables him to draw power from 26 other Deities.
Post by Levance (1,846 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Refering to the Bernkastel post, I do know more than ten characters able to beat her, however as the rules of battle forum says, No god and universal characters are allowed (The page sended by MohsinMan99 gives bern too much power, The universes created by her fight against Lambda, where created by Lambda's power. Even if Bern can travel trough universe, she can't create or destroy them, so she isn't in an universal level). The only character that I know, not in a god or universal level able to defeat her doesn't even surpass the human's realm.

I do not know about Giorno Giovanna, but Hyunbig (is able to defeat her because that Word of command waves in a conceptual plane) seems godly to me.

Refered to Hades, he's a God character, however I have watched all saint seiya (complete) and read the manga, and even if Hades is a God, the SS Universe, doesn't have characters able to reach the conceptual plane. So, even if theorically a character like Hades would be able to defeat Bern (Because divine's level is over conceptual level), he doesn't have a move able to reach her (Because even if divine's level is superior, the God must have a move able to reach conceptual level, and most Gods are Hyper powerful, but only created to affect the concrete, spiritual or mental realm)

This is my last post in this thread for today, because as I am new, I doesn't have too many number of posts. (But if this thread continue in debating, I will comment tomorrow)

Post by TheRedRose (1,645 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Levance: Conceptual plane does not matter when characters are 100 times faster than that of another character, Hades himself is massively faster than light as well has universal+ durability and has shattered his own universe. A lot of characters from SS can reach conceptual plain, Virgo Shaka the strongest Gold Saint has great mental control and telepathy. He is capable of holding his own against beings like Hades as well as being called a God by his fellow comrades. Conceptual plane meaning something that's mental related as in mentally.

Post by Levance (1,846 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Wrong, maybe in the SS means that, however, in Umineko's universe that just reach to mental level. The conceptual plane of Umineko's universe and TYPE-MOON's universe referes to a metaphysical plane, where reality can be manipulated as a toy, where physical's concepts such as speed, strenght, resistance, etc. doesn't mean nothing. The only thing that has meaning in the conceptual plan are concepts, and that is something that waves in terms like Definitions, what I mean?, conceptual attacks hits definitions or concepts, for example, a conceptual move to blind someone sended to an inferior plane doesn't blind because it causes some kind of damage to nerves, or organs, It blinds because it deny the concept of vision in that person, hitting the definition of vision only for that person.

Post by Destinyheroknight (10,337 posts) See mini bio Level 21

Hellmaster Phibrizzo, since his powers was able to reach a parallel universe (his Soul Crush should do it)

Post by SilverGalford (2,951 posts) See mini bio Level 11

the one above all

the presence

kami tenchi

lord of nightmares

anti monitor

pre retcon beyonder

the living tribunal

thanos IG

michael demiurgos

lucifer morningstar

pre retcon molecule man

zero hour parallax

franklin richards

white phoenix of the crown

mr mxyzptlk

Galactus

Imperiex

the spectre

Post by DJSNuva1 (3,347 posts) See mini bio Level 11

The Source, The Brothers (DC/Marvel), Krona as Entropy, *Add your 4th wall breakers here*, et cetera.

Post by Levance (1,846 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Hahaha this is fun, there's a lot of characters that I don't knew, however, Battle forum's rules state, that no God or Universal Characters are allowed, and also, all those characters able to reach the conceptual plane are able to fight with her, but also they must consider Bern's abilites; only red truth (the one is a conceptual move) is enough to be a challenge, and do not forget her fearsome ability, Magic of miracles.

But this is really fun, anyway no matter how much she is destroyed (considering that the characters that beat her respect the rules), Bernkastel will be my favourite villain for a very looong time, anyone who wants to post, just do it, next time, I will put another powerful character that also it doesn't reach a God or Universal level, so it's legal.

PD: Forgot to add, but Bern is also a fourth wall breaker

PD2: Please leave links to pages that explains your characters abilities, or explain them yourself, it's pretty disappointing to see posts that names characters but doesn't explain them

Post by sceonn (757 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@Levance:

Giorno Giovanna: No action can be taken against the guy what so ever~ and he has control over life/lifeforms, able to create living breathing creatures and plants....

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