marvel vs shonen alliance

Topic started by othus12 on Dec. 23, 2013. Last post by taichokage 8 months, 3 weeks ago.
Post by GeneralVan (1,776 posts) See mini bio Level 9
Seiya kills Hulk and Thor while Goku kills Iron Man and the Thing. One on one Goku can beat the Hulk but probably not Thor. After that Yusuke kills the Human Torch and then Toriko (or even Ichigo) can solo Spiderman, Venom, and Captain America. Seiya even with the Bronze Cloth is still Massively FTL and is galaxy level while he can also dish out atomic level destruction. He would beat even Odin Force Thor. Then the Hulk would pose almost no problem for him but in the highly unlikely event Seiya can't continue then Goku cleans up. Then Iron Man and the Thing (who is around Nappa level) get pounded into paste by Goku.
Post by Whats_out_the_bag (1,411 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Low:

lol

Your post matches your name.

Now why did you first respond to one of my post here? Well it's because you felt that Goku can easily kill Hulk. So I engaged into a debate.

Lets quickly go over what was said here.

Note my entire post were countering everything you said, not bringing new arguments up.

Counter 1

With his strength, he has proven his bout against beings with planet durability, and fought on a certain level with a galaxy buster. You seriously don't mean to say Hulk survives, do you?

You clearly think just because he's a planet buster he can beat Hulk. Also lets not just because he has fought with a galaxy buster he is now capable of dealing with the Hulk easily. My entire responds to that was

"And that's out of Hulks range? You do know Hulk has taken on some of the strongest Marvel charcters. So many different planet level characters, and has taken on Galaxy busting characters as well."

Irrelevant Statement 1

The statement itself is nigh invalid if you believe and only adamantium is capabe of harming hulk. That statement is going NLF.

This is when you bring up a non-relevant incoherent statements out of no where. Note I didn't say anything about adamantium.

Counter 2

Fact of the matter is, Goku has beaten tougher beings than Hulk, Buu, Janemba, Broly and one android with titanic durability (forgot his name).

This is where you like to sit at and focus on. I didn't really care for this part, but apparently it's important.

I replied to simple show you taking on those guys are either non cannon, or simply PIS. Which I said.

" The true fact of the matter is, Hulk has beaten tougher beings than Goku; Thor, The Sentry, and Gladiator."

Also Broly and Janemba are non-canon. I'll talk about these guys later.

Counter 3

There is little to say in terms of Hulks asssumed durability feats on someone of Gokus power level.

Here you go again, acting as if Goku has tons of feats. You do know most of Goku's status are featless. He's powerscaled, thus no scans. You talk about him being stronger and pretty much state that Hulk has no feat on durability. Which I responded by posting scans. Some may not be the godliest thing ever, but It wasn't the point to put him above Goku, which i have scans of stuff like that. While you sit and act like Goku has done better in the durability department with no scans or proof at all.

Counter 4

he gets stronger as he fight. So while its a given he might not be able to harm Hulk initially, he would, eventually.

This little argument of yours was simply Goku can evolve and get stronger throughout the entire battle. Which he hasn't shown the ability to do.

@Vapovile said:

@Whats_out_the_bag: I think what Low is referring to is how saiyans get stronger AFTER every fight, as said by King Kai. During the fight, however, Goku is at the same strength he is at after his latest battle, which would be either after the battle with Omega Shenron or Bills. So Goku can't magically power up during the fight unless he pulls a Vegeta and gets healed mid-fight by one of his teammates, provided that one of them is able to heal.

As you can see above Vapovile was kind enough to try to clear up the misconception. Which is canon and from the manga.

You then proceed to ramble about something that I don't care to even talk about.

Note how you then go to post a translation of a interview. Which I had already countered previously, by saying:

"if there isn't we can't conclude it to be true, also rather he said so or not that would counteract the entire series so his statement is going to be disregarded."

If the series says something and he says the opposite, then we are only to continue with the series until he changes something.

Counter 5

As far as killing Hulk goes, Zeus has almost done it, before Skaar, Hulks and Herculese rescued him. Whats even funny, Zeus was only using his basic strength.

You're acting like Goku's even on the same level as Zeus. You do know the same would have happened to Goku as well. The only thing is Goku would have died.

Hulk as a healing factor, thus he wasn't going to die by mere punches.

I then state:

"Ok...Zeus is a Sky father. He's capable of killing everyone in the DB verse. For Hulk to have been taking hits from him is an impressive feat alone.
Zeus (Marvel)"

Your misunderstanding of countering!!!

So I didn't go about countering you in the earlier post, let me try this post.

I was wondering what you were going to counter, and how. but you really didn't even do so. The above points are the very thing I countered, which you would need to go back and counter.

You did not do that. In fact you went on to a different topic. Rather than talking about how Goku could kill Hulk you start this...

Irrelevant Statement 2

Ahem, Sentry. Hulk did not beat him. Bruce Banner did. With a punch. lol If Sentry was in his game (with Void), that would have gone hillariously different.

My reply to this thing you call a counter.

"Why are you bringing the Void into this? It's pretty irrelevant. You wanted to counter that he didn't beat Sentry by stating it was Banner. It really doesn't matter."

OH Now do you understand why that was pretty irrelevant? You went back into a previous responds I made solely to mimic an ignorant statement. So you choose to leave the counterarguments I made previously for an unrelated discussion. Watch how you'll continue to focus on this.

Counter 6

According to Akira anyway, Goku has the potential to bust half a galaxy now.

I say:

"Hell Goku has the potential to bust a planet, but that doesn't mean he'll ever do so. He hasn't shown the ability to survive in space, nor the great feat of actually tanking an attack of that scale. But that's just feat base."

Counter 7

There's nothing in there that has power with potency enough to match a Kamehameha or a Spirit Bomb from Goku.

You were indeed correct. Which I said:

Correct, there's stuff that are higher or lower. Nothing on the same level. :)

Counter 8

Spirit Bomb in particular incinerates whatever is caught in the blast. The only guy whos ever survived is another Saiyen: Vegeta. Because they have adapting qualities.

So I'm going to quickly counter this in two ways.

First, where do you think he's going to get enough power layoing around to kill off the hulk.

Second, Hulk isn't evil.

Oh yeah. Freeza survived it. Buu was capable of holding it off. Good luck with this argument, because there's many ways I can counter it. Two pictures two types of arguments below and above.

Counters are over . Now we have a new clean chapter. This chapter is about a debator who's too lazy to even bring up any good facts. He can be counter multiple times he will simple dodge the statements and bring up something completely irrelevant.

Lets read....

iirc, you brought Sentry into play here.

You brought Broly and Janemba into play here.

And yes, I refuse to do work, because

You are lazy and don't have anything to offer. Oh my bad continue.

theres nothing to be gained here by going about countering your points.

There's nothing to be gained here by countering any one's points on any battle forum in the world. What's new? Well other than enjoyment... well..

Carry on.

Sentry is just a single point I decided to pick up on.

How about I pick on broly as irreverent as he is to this battle. Pick him real surely help my argument.

You've stated facts on baseline fallacies, with no relevence to the subject at hand.

Here you are talking out of your ass. Please take the time to list examples of such.

Sentry as I proved, was not nearly at his full power.

OK lets agree that he wasn't at his full point, but it doesn't change anything about this battle. Not a single thing. That's what we call pointless arguments. It didn't add anything or take it away in this battle now did it?

As for Galactus, that feat is again invalidated.

How is it invalidated?

that's fallacy of the inverse, simply because Hulk's capable of tanking such attack and surviving doesn't mean it's invalid. He's known for having a huge HEAL FACTOR.

He can literally erase Hulk from existence.

So because he didn't do so it's invalid. They saved him from Galactus. Thor and the fantastic four had to help why they got Hulk out of the way.

Everything else, right down to Kang, is completely irrelevent based on the stand you've decided to take.

Bull shit. Just because he has fought strong characters doesn't mean it's irrelevant. He's one of the strongest Marvel characters and currently getting stronger. Hell they plan on increasing Hulk's power in his current series.

Johnny going nova was somewhat impressive, but that doesn't nor had any relevant energy that breaks worlds as far as I know.

Some what impressive? Goku couldn't even survive that attack.

You have to put in some effort to try and get me to work lol.

lol. I don't need you to work. You can just sit there and look like a fool.

You talked about going off topic, but you were the one who went off topic.

And when did I do such things? (¬‿¬)

Come talk to me when hulk casually tanks Skyfather level+ attacks.

Why so he can rape Goku?

You come talk to me when Goku tanks a planet. Yes I just went there.

Oh by the way. Since it's about to be Christmas soon. Here's some scans on the road. I didn't give you any Destructive capability scans now did I?

Here's some planet level attacks. Enjoy.

Post by Low (1,377 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@Whats_out_the_bag: Good luck. Ill just sit back, and not bother. lol Im just flag you for flaming. The only point is Hulk has not taken any relativistic form of attacks that are nearly on the magnitude or in line with Goku's. None of your scans prove it. So Galactus is quite the big gun, but he wasn't nearly the size or of intensity to have destroyed any planet. During Secret Wars, he was pretty much handicapped and nothing more than a toy for Beyonder. As for Goku, he is now in line with his God Form at the base of his powers. This form has at least Solar system busting strength. Enough to obliterate Hulk with. As for being Skyfather level+, minus all the haxes in magic the skyfathers possess, Bills is a being with the same power as any Skyfather. So your arguments against Goku only stands true if you manage to prove Hulk surviving against Skyfather level+ beings, which I have not seen hapenning. Minus PIS anyway. We all know how Sentry proved Hulks supposed infinity rage factor as a fallacy. And with Zeus, he was handed his worst defeat in the history of comics. It goes without saying that Goku will break Hulk, and easily. Rest is non factors in your debate, which is why I avoided yours.

From point 1, it was clear you were attacking me. If I did follow your own rules in debate, I would be pissing no one but myself. Let me point out your first mistake. You were breaking up my posts, sentence by senhtence. If you had wanted me to take you seriously, you would not have done it. You use paragraphs to convey you messages, or you can just forget about debating. I'm not as objective as you might think of me. I'm more subjective. You brought a point in. I falsified it and you deemed the matter off topic, lol. I've had experience debating versus your kind of debaters lol. And frankly, there isn't much I want to carry out with you. You can go ahead and break this post all you want, but you can forget a reply that satisfies your ultimate end. Not that I will not be able to formulate arguments versus them, but you are not worth entertaining.

Post by takashichea (12,347 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

@Low: @Whats_out_the_bag:

Sorry Low and What's Out of the Bag, I saw this argument, but didn't intervene since I assumed Sonata was going to take care of this. I'm not a battle mod, and I only lock threads while enforcing the rules. Handing disputes based on feats are no longer in my jurisdiction due to previous experiences I had.

I'm just going to lock this thread.

I wanted to tell you two just avoid each other. I know certain users have bad blood against others. I don't know we can't get along. By the end of the day, battle threads should be fun, done in your free time. There is no need to bash others' head. Anime Vice is more than just battle threads. Why don't you two take a break: Break Time for Battle Folks/Battlations?

I'll lock this thread. The owner and the other folks can request a petition over at the Over The Limit!: AV Battle Community Vote Thread. to unlock this. Thank you.

Post by Sonata (35,387 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Moderator

I'll unlock the thread for now. Taka has put out the final warning on this thread. If things do not stay civil it will be locked for good.

Post by Saladking (916 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Sonata said:

I'll unlock the thread for now. Taka has put out the final warning on this thread. If things do not stay civil it will be locked for good.

You might as well lock this thread again because What's out the bag is one of the worst posters on this site.

Post by taichokage (13,341 posts) See mini bio Level 20
I wouldn't say worst posters, just an aggressive one. I'm probably on the receiving end of it the most, but he has points. I'm still thinking Shounen alliance for now but only if Seiya and Goku combine against Thor. That would pretty much guarantee that Hulk and Ironman would slaughter the remaing Alliance members but if Seiya and Goku can take out Thor, they can make short work of Hulk and Ironman together. Seiya can hold his own but I doubt he could beat Thor the majority of the time 1 on 1.
Post by Saladking (916 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@taichokage said:

I wouldn't say worst posters, just an aggressive one. I'm probably on the receiving end of it the most, but he has points. I'm still thinking Shounen alliance for now but only if Seiya and Goku combine against Thor. That would pretty much guarantee that Hulk and Ironman would slaughter the remaing Alliance members but if Seiya and Goku can take out Thor, they can make short work of Hulk and Ironman together. Seiya can hold his own but I doubt he could beat Thor the majority of the time 1 on 1.

He blantantly insults people for no reason.

Post by Vapovile (1,985 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@taichokage: I don't think Hulk and Iron Man together could defeat the entire Shonen alliance, with the two mid-tier characters holding most of the weight. I am almost certain that Toriko and Yusuke could kill Iron Man, and they would only need to stall Hulk long enough for Seiya and Goku to take out Thor. And if we don't allow Hulk to destroy the planet, all of the speedsters on the Shonen team could certainly play a long game of keep-away from the big green giant.

And I wouldn't say that WOTB is a bad debater at all, he is just one of our most aggressive. Minus the insults, he is provides more scans of feats than most people here. Heck, I am kinda nervous if I ever have to face him in a debate or something xD. But yeah, he is a welcome addition to this melting pot of debaters.

Post by ROBOT6661 (358 posts) See mini bio Level 7

the only version of hulk who has the power to stand to goku or seiya is WB but if he unleashes his power he could potentilly kill his allies

Post by othus12 (6,847 posts) See mini bio Level 13

i wanted to say this since quite a while. i asked for the mainstream version of hulk. not world breaker, not world war.

besides current toriko has enough feats to stall the hulk.

Post by Low (1,377 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@takashichea: lol I had forgotten about this thread. I'm not one to keep ill feelings.

@ topic: Im guessing most of you don't know who Toriko is. Guy with country+ durability. He can entertain Hulk for about a minute or so. Naruto is a multi mountain buster himself, but the one who stands against them all is Thor, who if Seiya and Goku team up, can deal with easily.

Post by othus12 (6,847 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@Low: actually current toriko is wayy above that but yeah you get my point too.

Post by takashichea (12,347 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

@Low:

It's okay. I wasn't sure to bump the thread since it already stopped.

On topic:

I like they used Shonen Alliance because it includes more than just one magazine. When folks use the term Shonen Jump, only use characters from that magazine. I can't really comment on this thread.

Post by Nuffs (25 posts) See mini bio Level 5

I vote for Shonen Alliance. Seiya solos.

Post by SMXLR8 (7,194 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Nuffs: no he doesn't

Post by taichokage (13,341 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Past Thor Seiya could solo. Unfortunately I don't think he would beat Thor 1 on 1.
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