Madara Uchiha VS. Sosuke Aizen

Topic started by UltimateHero0406 on Sept. 15, 2012. Last post by One_Piece_God 8 months, 2 weeks ago.
Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@bobokyo: That is more or less what is going to happen in this fight, Aizen likes the look of those nice eyes Madara has... *Troll Face*

@DBZ_universe:

This has all been part of Aizens plan.

Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@UltimateHero0406: Unless he somehow learns Izanagi in the middle of this very short fight, then its pointless to bring it up. Unless it shows him using it, its safer to say he cant. Even if he could what good would it do him? He will only bring himself back to be killed again. He cant tag Aizen because he is slower than him, Aizens overall attack strength is greater, and Aizen appears to be more durable based on what Madara has been hit by.

Once under Complete Hypnosis he wont be able to use any attacks unless Aizen wants him to. There will be no meteor spamming.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Yusuke52: it would do him massive googd. keep in mind izanagi is a technique that changes REALITY as in waaay beyond just fixing some boo boos. and if madara can get the attack out he will make it so aizen did not release his sword making the KS inneffective.

Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@UltimateHero0406: You seem to be mistaken on the mechanics of the jutsu. It alters the users reality. Not reality itself. If he takes a fatal wound then he can brush it off as a dream, if he lands an attack that is not fatal then he can make it fatal.

Its not some ultimate reality warping jutsu that allows him to change the abilities of his opponents.

Even if it did, it has yet to show anything beyond revival. So to say he is going to negate Kyoka Suigetsu with it is silly.

Besides, he has yet to show it and therefore he does not currently have it so the point is moot.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Yusuke52: you just proved my point. he could make so he never saw the release making KS useless. and he could KS wouldnt be able to stop him.

Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@UltimateHero0406: I proved that Izanagi has yet to be used in the instance you described. unless of course you can show Izanagi being utilized in the way you described in order to avoid a genjutsu like ability? If not then your point is based on the assumption it can be used in the way you describe.

It would mean that Izanagi is supressing Kyoka Suigetsu not its hold on Madara, which would be impossible without extending its powers past the user and affecting the blade itself.

He can only alter his reality as long as he himself knows what it is. With Kyoka Suigetsu messing with his perception of what is real and what isn't he is not going to be able to judge how and when to use it.

Also he does not know about Kyoka Suigetsu, it has no give away that is has been activated other than the blade shattering. How will Madara know that he is under its effects, if it's effects are so strong that even a captain as powerful as Yamamoto would rather let himself get stabbed and sense Aizen that way than try to fight him under its effects, What hope does Madara have in seeing through it.

Keep in mind that Yamamoto has some 2000 more years of experience than Madara does when trying to answer this.

Besides once Complete Hypnosis is active Madara will no longer be under his own influence, even if he wanted to activate his suspossed new ability that you have given him without proof on whether he has it or not. He would be unable to make the handsigns required before he is sliced in half.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,462 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@Yusuke52:

Use this one against a raging troll!! lol ^

Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@DBZ_universe: Im surprised by how many of these there are haha.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Yusuke52: your making it sound like aizen can change what his opponents want to do or are doing. if he tries to change the fact of madara doing handsigns, it would screw him in a number of ways. first aizen wouldnt have a clue what to make him see since he doesnt know ninja handsigns. second if someone knows they are doing something in their mind and they find a difference between that and whats happening the illusion would be known. KS controls senses not muscle movement or the mind.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,462 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@Yusuke52: lol, indeed... no one trolls better than Aizen.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Yusuke52: and if he did have his powers in soul society, amaterasu would destroy everything since nobody else there has the power to put it out

Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@UltimateHero0406: Aizen can make his opponents see/hear/feel/smell/taste what ever he wants them to, the fact that it controls all 5 senses means Madara will be unable to see/hear/smell/feel/taste the difference in the illusion that has been placed on him. Even if in his mind he can sense something is amiss, with all of his senses fooled he will be unable to act on it.

Aizen releases the blade and suddenly lunges at Madara, not in a way that would make Madara dodge. Instinctively he stabs him through the chest with his hand/sword. He dies infront of Madara, he goes and checks the corpse, while in the back of his mind he thinks something fishy is going on.

Everything here looks dead, no pulse, no breathing, Stabs it again just to be sure, blood spills out and the skin has started to darken along with the fact it is now ice cold.

No question here everything I can see here is dead. I cant hear any beating of the heart or breathing, Its starting to smell real bad, his skin feels ice cold, He takes a bite of his flesh just to be sure (Cause he is a badass like that) and it tastes rancid. Lets perform a quick autopsy just so I can put my mind at ease.

No doubt about it, this guy is dead.

But he still thinks something is wrong, he cant quite place his finger on it since he has literally sliced him to pieces and confirmed with every sense he has that this is a dead body...

Then out of nowhere he is having his eyes ripped from his head and a hand pushed through his chest. His soul is being sent on its merry way while he has suddenly been caught in a binding kido. He then realises that his suspicions were in fact correct but there is nothing that he could have done to prevent the outcome of what just transpired given that all his natural senses told him different.

As to why you are arguing the effects of Kyoka Suigetsu is beyone me, everyone knows how broken it is. Surely I dont have to explain it to you in this much detail for you to see why he stomps. That coupled with his superior stats gives him an easy win.

I also assume you have no proof of the Izanagi feats that I asked for? Didnt expect you to, since none exist. That would be like asking you to find intelligent life on another planet in the next 5 minutes.

second if someone knows they are doing something in their mind and they find a difference between that and whats happening the illusion would be known

If your body was suddenly paralysed and you didnt realise it and you tried to move your arm to take another bite of you food and it didnt move, you would just jump straight to the conclusion that you have now been placed under an illusion and that your life is at stake and everyone around you is now the enemy and that the only way out of this is to awaken your dormant sharingan and use Izanagi's hidden abilities that have never been used before, ever to escape and kill the person who has done this to you? This has nothing to do with a sudden medical emergency, or something is holding you down, its 100% illusions for you then?

Yeah...

He is controling his actions through the illusions, not controlling him directly

@DBZ_universe: He is just cool like that!

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Yusuke52: 1. not arguing effectiveness with you. aizen won on that point.

2. there is nothing saying that he cannot use izanagi (sharingan + rinnegan + senju dna) but this is just a scenario.

3. reality trumps illusion, he would have only dreamt that he saw the activation releasing him from effect

4. just making sure you know that last thing

5. like i said before the difference is prep

6. Screw u

7. jk

Post by taichokage (12,639 posts) See mini bio Level 20
1. I would say Madara can use Izanagi. He is the most powerful Uchiha ever so it's logical to think that. But, he can only use it once. 2. I'd say it's fair to say that Izanagi could remove the effects of Kyouka Suigetsu, but, Aizen could merely cast Kyouka Suigetsu again. Also there would be no real way for Madara to even know he was in Kyouka Suigetsu, unless Aizen told him.
Post by One_Piece_God (540 posts) See mini bio Level 8

Aizen = God in HST (before his dumb butterfly/hollow transformation), I have repeated this so many times.

Once your under Kyouka Suigetsu...

Post by xlab3000 (1,367 posts) See mini bio Level 10

I have to go with Edo Madara based on everything I've seen so far besides we haven't seen all of edo madara's abilities yet anyway

Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Yusuke52: 1. not arguing effectiveness with you. aizen won on that point.

2. there is nothing saying that he cannot use izanagi (sharingan + rinnegan + senju dna) but this is just a scenario.

3. reality trumps illusion, he would have only dreamt that he saw the activation releasing him from effect

4. just making sure you know that last thing

5. like i said before the difference is prep

6. Screw u

7. jk

2. There is nothing saying that he cant he has everything there that he needs to use it, BUT he has never shown it on panel, so to come to an absolute conclusion that "He has it and thats that. Because he has this and this, that means he must have this" is rather fallacious of you.

He might have everything he needs to perform it, but that does not mean he can. I can buy alot of surgical equiptment, but that does not mean I can preform a coronary artery bypass.

Until he shows it, dont say he can. When/if he does, then you are free to use it.

3. Yeah thats right it does. Can you please explan to us then, how he is going to know the swords effects upon its release, then for him to decide that releasing Izanagi is his only way out.

He can make him believe that the sword controls grass and plants, because when he released it they all came to life and bound him down on the ground.

He could make it so it controls the earth, or fire, or water, or wind, or darkness, or light, or poison, or ice, or making it so it extends. Any one of these can be used to fool him, but according to you Madara will see right through them all and know that everything is an illusion. Then he proceeds to release Izanagi, something which he has yet to show (Not saying he cant, im saying he has yet to prove he can), use it in a way that has never been done before (Might work but without proof we will never know, as said, even if it does work he can place him under it again right after.) and break out and kill him before he is placed under it once more, effectively using up his eyes in the process making this a last ditch effort to kill Aizen.

So I ask you to explain how he will know all of this. Given the verse he comes from, the ability to control any one of these things seems highly likely and he has no reason to think differently.

4. Im just making sure you understand what you are saying.

5. Madara, outside of hooking himself up to a tree to stay alive, and regrowing limbs from a brittle substance (We have yet to see his involvment in the Akatsuki, but given his current state I would not hope for much unless he pulls a miracle healing jutsu out his ass, which if kishi keeps on going the way he is going is exactly what is going to happen...). Has never done anything prep worthy on the level Aizen has (Creating an army of arrancar, Fooling everyone in the Gotei 13, making them all believe that his zanpakto was a different type, setting the wheels in motion for the whole story). Besides:

Who would win and why in a battle between the two biggest villains from Naruto and Bleach . Battle is on on a level playing field where both characters bodies on are on the same plane of existance and YES they can see each other. They can use their strongest forms and battle is to incapacitation or death.

Nowhere here does it say that he or Aizen has prep or knowledge, therefore they have neither since they are not turned on by default.

6. I dont know why you had to edit that to put it in. Seems pointless, if you dont like what im saying then I think you started the wrong thread. But I digress.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Yusuke52: 2. he would know having all knowledge of the sharingan and all.

3.all that is obvious knowledge. hes even done that in the series. i meant IF HE KNEW!!! meaning if he knew the effect he could counter it with izanagi.

5. madara is a master strategist and composed a plan that spanned decades and was based on manipulation of individuals that would result in his revival. and all you have to do is not look at the release once you know what it does.

6. do you know what jk means? learn to take a joke.

7. you seem to enjoy nit picking at what i say without fully understanding my point which is not a very becoming thing to do.

Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@UltimateHero0406:

2. Like I will continue to say until you can understand it. Just because he has the possibility of using it does not mean that he can in fact use it, or will in fact use it.

What you are using is what I would call a formal fallacy.

More importantly, Appeal to Probability: Just because something can happen you believe it is innevitable it will happen.

That is wishful thinking, unless he shows it, he does not currently have it. Its not that hard to understand. The true Madara was dead up until some chapters ago and suddenly you know more about him that kishi, giving him moves he has yet to display.

3. And that in itself changes nothing, He does not know the effect and therefore that point is moot in and of itself.

5. And how did his revival work out for him? It didnt go exactly as planned, he was brought back by Kabuto not Nagato.

and all you have to do is not look at the release once you know what it does.

Once the blade has been seen, unless you touch it the subsequent release of the blade, whether you are looking at it or not will take effect on your mind. This is the basic rule that was set forth when he used it way back in the SS Arc, unless you are saying that everyone in the soul society was looking at him when he "impaled" himself against the wall 30 foot in the air?

6. I know what joke means, I said clearly that it was not that funny and seems pointless to say in the first place. Read what I say before you start saying I cant take a joke... If you dont like me then say so, you have no reason to joke about it.

7. You seem to disregard everything I say and continue on with fallacys and pointless arguments.

Your point is that IF he had Izanagi then he would get past Kyoka Suigetsu, he would learn to not look at the blade because he learned somewhere that is where the power stems from and he would then proceed to beat some who exceeds him in all stats.

Your point is based on what if's.

Without knowledge where will he learn that the blade is the source of the illusion, where will he learn that he needs to touch the blade to stop its complete hypnosis, Where did he show his use of Izanagi to a level that has yet to be seen?

Madara is going to get trolled, nothing you say will change this until he gets some good feats of his own. Izanagi wont save him from Kyoka Suigetsu, he can continually placed under complete hypnosis everytime he breaks out.

This is your thread, if you feel so strongly about one of the partys involved you should not have made it to begin with.

Post by jamesisaacs (10 posts) See mini bio Level 5

@bobokyo said:

@othus12: In Bleach terms, right now the soul of Madara is known as a "Plus" or a spirit of a person who has died but failed to enter Soul Society, The only thing Aizen needs to do is a "Soul Burial" to send Madara's spirit to Soul Society. Heck, if Aizen wants to, he can kill Madara again in Soul Society and Madara's spirit will turn to basic Reishi(the "God particle" of Bleachverse.)

LMAO, yes exactly!

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