Madara and Hashirama VS Whitebeard and Blackbeard

Topic started by nishi99 on April 12, 2013. Last post by 5th 1 year, 3 months ago.
Post by phantomrant (1,302 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@One_Piece_God said:

@phantomrant said:

@One_Piece_God said:

Why is the 9 tails such a threat?

How big/powerful are giants/lil Oars in One Piece?

I personally do not believe Madara/karuma is a bigger threat Hashirama.

Because.... Kurama can spam a dozen TBBs, each of them being at least x5 more powerful than a typical TBB (with is easily a mountain level+ itself) ; all of that mounting up to solid island-level firepower. Firepower that completely shits on whatever OPverse has dished out.

But the thing is they can be easily countered/blocked/deflected. It does not matter if they can produce an attack with a bigger area of effect as it it can be countered.

There's no one on the OP side that can do anything to defend against a TBB once it explodes. And even if BB somehow manages to absorb a TBB prior to its explosion, the Op side have absolutely no defense against Madara's shockwaves. Shockwaves that are capable of two-shotting, if not one-shotting them.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@phantomrant: No one on the naruto side has any way of defending against a quake or being sucked in by a black hole. Also black beard can pull people to him using the gravity properties of his darkness fruit.

Post by phantomrant (1,302 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne said:

@phantomrant: No one on the naruto side has any way of defending against a quake or being sucked in by a black hole. Also black beard can pull people to him using the gravity properties of his darkness fruit.

No defense? Whitebeard can't even shatter Perfect Susanoo, Hashirama's Wood, or the Kyuubi given their durability.

Perfect Susanoo can swing its sword at WB and BB's general direction. They get killed by a shockwave that sliced two mountains from miles away. Do tell me how they're going to defend against that. and that's PS without the kyuubi.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@phantomrant: I notice you avoided the black hole good choice.

Whitebeard's showings. He tilted a whole island and the sea as far as the eye can see around it and blocked an attack from john giant who was just as tall as the mountains in the background with ease.

Post by 5th (1,205 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne said:

@5th:

His power allows him to suck in anything. It doesn't matter what you label it as.

"The first and foremost strength, as demonstrated by Blackbeard, is that it allows the user to control darkness and its unique property of gravity. The darkness is visually demonstrated by a black smoke-like substance spreading out from the user's body. The darkness is a void that devours and crushes everything. Due to this, the user can absorb physical matter and attacks of any type by sucking it into the darkness. The user can also use this ability to irresistibly pull the opponent to them, regardless of their current state.

Comes from the one piece wiki. It is a blackhole. Unless you are trying to argue that the bijuu dama can negate the effect of gravity?

"Darkness is gravity! The power to pull everything in... and spare not even a ray of light!... Infinite gravity!"

Comes from the mouth of blackbeard himself. You can't even call it hyperbole because he has never been shown to be such a character. Everything he says he can do he has done lol.

That wasn't what I asked, can he use it consistently enough to suck every TBB Madara fires at him? If not, then it's obvious who wins here, Madara Uchiha, and it doesn't state "Anything" it simply says everything, Blackbeard's black hole suction doesn't even compare to a real Black Hole... And if he were to crush raw energy, it'd disrupt his black hole and end up destroying him and Whitebeard.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@5th:

Yes his black hole can stay as long as he wants it and he controls what it takes in. And no lol sucking in raw energy would not destroy a black hole.

Also whitebeard tilts the fighting area and while they are off balance black beard sucks them in.

Post by Galenbeta (3,025 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Without a dou t all the rounds go to Madara and Hashirama

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,143 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@TheNeutralOne said:

@5th:

Yes his black hole can stay as long as he wants it and he controls what it takes in. And no lol sucking in raw energy would not destroy a black hole.

Also whitebeard tilts the fighting area and while they are off balance black beard sucks them in.

If you think it's as simple as "Black Hole = GG" then you're being ridiculous. Whitebeard, after having a couple of attacks intercepted by Teach, was able to throttle him and would have crushed him had he not been close to death and attacked by the whole BB crew. And you don't think that a statue that makes mountains look small with a thousand hands (which took an onslaught from Madara + Kurama to block) could do the same?

Two things that people seem to be overlooking as well are Hashi/Madara's smarts and their teamwork. They have both the advantage in intelligence and the range of their abilities, whereas Whitebeard and Teach just have power and durability on their side (maybe not even the former).

The scale Hashi/Madara are on surpasses anything else shown in OP, Whitebeard being the only possible exception.

@TheNeutralOne said:

@phantomrant: I notice you avoided the black hole good choice.

Whitebeard's showings. He tilted a whole island and the sea as far as the eye can see around it and blocked an attack from john giant who was just as tall as the mountains in the background with ease.

You had best hope he's bringing more than that to this fight, or it won't even be close.

Blocked an attack from John Giant? That's cute. Let's give a reminder of the scale Madara/Hashirama work on:

Please note how big Hashirama's uber summon is. It tanked multiple attacks that individually would have easily wiped out mountains. John the Giant has squat on this.

And tilting an island isn't as impressive as having the firepower to wipe one out. Sorry, none of those feats from WB are that impressive when compared to what Hashi/Madara have done. It would take multiple quake attacks to bring down Hashi's best, and with Madara reinforcing him with attacks that effortlessly wipe out mountains I don't see OP team winning.

Team Naruto definitely take rounds 1 and 3 with mid-high difficulty, scenario 2 I'll be generous and say it could go either way.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@GIRUGAMESH:

Whitebeard was able to split the island on his death bed with multiple stab wounds, canon shots, incinerated organs and half a face. And you for some reason believe he couldn't tilt that statue or crack it in half? He didn't just tilt that island lol. Everything in that area tilted sideways. And first of all madara and hashirama don't just start off in susano'o with the kyuubi already armoured up and with sage mode activated with the statue. The moment whitebeard quakes they will die and that is if they don't get sucked in by the black hole. Teach also has the ability to pull people toward him via gravity. If any of them thinks they can stab him or hit him they are dead wrong in that he could 1hit their base durability. Whitebeard casually tossed that other giant like foil paper after knocking him out.

Sure I agree lately hashirama and madara have had some great showings and I am especially waiting the manga and updates for this week and next because they are gonna be epic but the pirates take this. Whitebeard was stated to be a complete life wiper in his prime and he didn't go down without showing why. Also how will they even attack black beard? He was set on fire and simply had the darkness swallow it up. He can swallow up everything they throw at him and release it back via liberation. When fighting ace his darkness was shown to compete with the flames and covered half the island and towered above most things on it.

Post by phantomrant (1,302 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne said:

@phantomrant: I notice you avoided the black hole good choice.

Whitebeard's showings. He tilted a whole island and the sea as far as the eye can see around it and blocked an attack from john giant who was just as tall as the mountains in the background with ease.

What the hell r u talking about? I just mentioned PS's shockwaves twice now as a counter to BB's Yami Yami no Mi.

Island tilting means jack shit. Actually comprehend how high PS-Kyuubi, and Madara's wood's durability is before you mentioned anything from the OP side that doesn't have to do with hax.

Post by 18hunt (149 posts) See mini bio Level 7
Both rounds Hash and Madara
Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@phantomrant:

actually if he tilts the island they will fall. That isn't a question so much as an obvious statement that can't be refuted. Not to mention you forgot about the part where he could island break.

He tilts the island-->they fall--> he quakes them when they are disoriented----> they die.

Also blackbeard is still there and still capable of sucking them in with the black hole. At the least it will serve as a distraction in that I assume it would be very difficult to fire an accurate bijuu dama while being pulled into a black hole against your will the same goes with throwing fists from a statue. Also even so madara has to activate susano'o and hashirama has to activate sage mode then release the statue. White beard simply has to close his hands and 1hit them. Who is to say he doesn't tilt the island before they release these? Who is to say that blackbeard doesn't begin to suck them in before they can do all of this? I doubt they would be able to power through it because they are nowhere near whitebeard's level of durability and raw strength. I guess madara in such a situation would use amaterasu but to no avail as blackbeard's powers can absorb the flames.

Post by 5th (1,205 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne: What is tilting an island going to do against two opponents who are completely agile and fast? Even if White Beard were to tilt the island over, both Madara and Hashirama will sweep that island away and Team One Piece along with their power.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@5th: Show me a feat from hashirama and madara that show they are invulnerable to gravity. You sir make it sound as though hashirama and madara have shown a large range of island busting feats aside from the bijuu dama which can be sucked in by blackbeard and quaked in the process of creation by whitebeard. Also where is this sweeping the island away you speak of? I have never seen them do such a thing in a disoriented position or otherwise. They would be utterly shocked to see there is a person who could tilt islands and destroy them by simply moving his fingers or grasping his fist. They would probably believe he is the ten tails in human form with such powers.

Post by 5th (1,205 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne: Please show me a reasonable feat to why in the hell WB or BB would be able to block or counter a large number of combined TBB and Hashirama Thousand Arm Goddess? You're an idiot for even saying you haven't seen such things when both Madara and Hashirama have already proven to easily be Island busters, and that's not all but you're wanking the hell out of OP at this moment. Also another dude has already explained the calcs behind their feats, what more do you want? Jeebus, tilting an island isn't even island busting.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,842 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@5th: One Piece has to be the most wanked anime I have seen to date. Almost DBZ levels of wank.
Post by phantomrant (1,302 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@TheNeutralOne said:

@phantomrant:

actually if he tilts the island they will fall. That isn't a question so much as an obvious statement that can't be refuted. Not to mention you forgot about the part where he could island break.

He tilts the island-->they fall--> he quakes them when they are disoriented----> they die.

Also blackbeard is still there and still capable of sucking them in with the black hole. At the least it will serve as a distraction in that I assume it would be very difficult to fire an accurate bijuu dama while being pulled into a black hole against your will the same goes with throwing fists from a statue. Also even so madara has to activate susano'o and hashirama has to activate sage mode then release the statue. White beard simply has to close his hands and 1hit them. Who is to say he doesn't tilt the island before they release these? Who is to say that blackbeard doesn't begin to suck them in before they can do all of this? I doubt they would be able to power through it because they are nowhere near whitebeard's level of durability and raw strength. I guess madara in such a situation would use amaterasu but to no avail as blackbeard's powers can absorb the flames.

No they won't. They will resist WB's Gura Gura no Mi trying to tilt them over with brute strength. Not to mention that this is set in Konohagakure, and not on an island. How is WB going to go about tilting over Perfect Susanoo, Kyuubi, or Madara's wood dragon when it'll just a weaker force trying to push them.

Madara's perfect Susanoo as well as Hashirama's wood has shown itself to tank a TBB at point-blank from 100% Kurama with no damage whatsoever. That's something far beyond what an island-splitting quake is capable of.

You seem to be massively underrating not only PS/kyuubi's destructive power and the wood's punching power, but also their durability levels. They're powerhouses compared to WB and BB. Powerhouses compared to anyone else in OP. The OP side has to rely heavily on brokenness to win this fight, and that's something either one on the OP lacks.

All that needs to be done with Yami Yamy no Mi is just blow it away.

Post by 5th (1,205 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@SpeedForceSpider: I agree, ever since Naruto's powerup everyone's been in denial of how freaking powerful Naruto has become... It's sad to find people underrating Naruto when they have no idea what's actually going on in the story.

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