Luke Skywalker vs Goku

Topic started by peruano99A on June 17, 2012. Last post by Kelleth 2 years ago.
Post by ReiKai (3,463 posts) See mini bio Level 9
  
Post by shonen (846 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@SpeedForceSpider said:

@shonen: You didn't read where it said rival I presume.

@SpeedForceSpider said:

@shonen: No I do not mean any random translation, and AT said that the saibamen are inferior to raditz. Yet the Viz translation pitted them equally. That forum link also says that Viz is not 100% properly translated as you make it seem. What exactly is your reason of using that thread?

Well lookie here I seem to have said Viz was not perfectly translated myself. You are awfully hard-headed and if you think you're proving a point you're dead wrong, because what you are saying makes entirely no sense at all.

So let's all just go with the fan translations that are worse than viz and consider than cannon, the same fan translation that use curse words and other inaccurate terms to mske the manga sound interesting yeah I'm hard headed ?

Quoted from you own link: As has been said, Nappa doesn’t actually say that the Saibaimen are equal to Raditz, just that they are comparable in terms of power (hitteki, which can be translated as “equal”, but only in a general sense, not any strict mathematical sense). For comparison, Sharpner uses the same word when he says that Videl is almost as strong as Mister Satan (and here Viz translates it as “rivals”).

Stop making shit up. Viz never used equal. they said rivals

Show me this so called official 100% accurate translation of yours ?
Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,813 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@shonen said:

@SpeedForceSpider said:

@shonen: You didn't read where it said rival I presume.

@SpeedForceSpider said:

@shonen: No I do not mean any random translation, and AT said that the saibamen are inferior to raditz. Yet the Viz translation pitted them equally. That forum link also says that Viz is not 100% properly translated as you make it seem. What exactly is your reason of using that thread?

Well lookie here I seem to have said Viz was not perfectly translated myself. You are awfully hard-headed and if you think you're proving a point you're dead wrong, because what you are saying makes entirely no sense at all.

So let's all just go with the fan translations that are worse than viz and consider than cannon, the same fan translation that use curse words and other inaccurate terms to mske the manga sound interesting yeah I'm hard headed ?

Quoted from you own link: As has been said, Nappa doesn’t actually say that the Saibaimen are equal to Raditz, just that they are comparable in terms of power (hitteki, which can be translated as “equal”, but only in a general sense, not any strict mathematical sense). For comparison, Sharpner uses the same word when he says that Videl is almost as strong as Mister Satan (and here Viz translates it as “rivals”).

Stop making shit up. Viz never used equal. they said rivals

Show me this so called official 100% accurate translation of yours ?

That right there shows me your full of shit. I'm not feeding your trolling ass anymore, you can't even spell "canon" yet you say I'm "making shit up" stfu. You are a real nut arguing over something I brought up as an example. You can't even stay on topic, you're a joke.

Post by shonen (846 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@SpeedForceSpider said:

@shonen said:

@SpeedForceSpider said:

@shonen: You didn't read where it said rival I presume.

@SpeedForceSpider said:

@shonen: No I do not mean any random translation, and AT said that the saibamen are inferior to raditz. Yet the Viz translation pitted them equally. That forum link also says that Viz is not 100% properly translated as you make it seem. What exactly is your reason of using that thread?

Well lookie here I seem to have said Viz was not perfectly translated myself. You are awfully hard-headed and if you think you're proving a point you're dead wrong, because what you are saying makes entirely no sense at all.

So let's all just go with the fan translations that are worse than viz and consider than cannon, the same fan translation that use curse words and other inaccurate terms to mske the manga sound interesting yeah I'm hard headed ?

Quoted from you own link: As has been said, Nappa doesn’t actually say that the Saibaimen are equal to Raditz, just that they are comparable in terms of power (hitteki, which can be translated as “equal”, but only in a general sense, not any strict mathematical sense). For comparison, Sharpner uses the same word when he says that Videl is almost as strong as Mister Satan (and here Viz translates it as “rivals”).

Stop making shit up. Viz never used equal. they said rivals

Show me this so called official 100% accurate translation of yours ?

That right there shows me your full of shit. I'm not feeding your trolling ass anymore, you can't even spell "canon" yet you say I'm "making shit up" stfu. You are a real nut arguing over something I brought up as an example. You can't even stay on topic, you're a joke.

Who was the one who deviated this topic to talk about viz translation..oh right that's you. Who is the one that brought up the example to discredit viz translation in favour of something else they may have read on the internet oh yeah you ? whose the one that decided to use an example that was disproved in the same article oh yes you ? If anything your the biggest troll here.

I'm still waiting for you to provide me with this 100% cannon accurate translation that you favour over professional company design to translate and release manga in America.

Rival is used by viz, which can mean Raditz and saibermen powerlevels are comparable which is true. This was what accurately stated in the manga. Toriyama then clarifies, that raditz is stronger in the anime to correlate with the official power level guides.
Post by TheVectorPrime (269 posts) See mini bio Level 9

This thread is about to get lock since people here don't know how to behave !

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,143 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@FalconC2: Fair play, hadn't seen him do that. All the same, he does speak the truth.

I know that the two of us have been over this, but the moon-busting feat does have validity. The manga strongly suggests that it happened in the space of a few seconds (as we saw in the scan I posted to you a while back). I have also shown that DBZ characters are capable of dodging such attacks.

Goku at his peak in DBZ is exponentially faster than the Piccolo who did this, so it would be fair to estimate he is FTL. Luke simply could not react to Goku moving. Being able to track a FTL spacecraft is all well and good, but not if you need to concentrate to do it and if the spacecraft in question is much larger than Goku. If a planet is moving at 100,000 mph and a rock the size of a city are moving at 50,000 mph through space, the planet would still be easier to track.

Post by ReiKai (3,463 posts) See mini bio Level 9
I find it amusing that someone who so fervently argues for Luke against an impossible foe, won't bother taking up arms against one who doesn't have speed or destructive ability like Goku's. Of course I was doing it to make a point, but even still I find it funny there's no response to Alita vs GM Luke.
Post by FalconC2 (349 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@ReiKai said:

I find it amusing that someone who so fervently argues for Luke against an impossible foe, won't bother taking up arms against one who doesn't have speed or destructive ability like Goku's. Of course I was doing it to make a point, but even still I find it funny there's no response to Alita vs GM Luke.

Cause I already know the outcome of that match, so it would be pointless to reply? I'm not a big Star Wars fan/expert. I like a few things in it, like the animated Clone Wars mini-series by Tartakovsky and the original movies but that's about it. I also haven't finished reading Last Order, so I don't know what Alita is capable of at EOS. Is she capable of somehow resisting Luke's telekinesis which is powerful enough to destroy and recreate castles, Imperial Walkers, and other large structures?

I'm just going by the feats provided (which you have not taken the time to look over), and trying to keep my biases out of the way. You could try to do the same.

Post by ReiKai (3,463 posts) See mini bio Level 9
You can't know the outcome unless you actually participate, now can you? If it was God vs an Insect, then of course the answer is obvious. But that's not the case, now is it? If would say if you knew about Alita, then you could make a judgement call. But I can see that is not the case, so the Answer couldn't possibly be known to you, now could it?
 
And that of course is the trick, now isn't it?
 
[Desty Nova] "The Flan of victory!" *slurp* DELICIOUS!!
Post by FalconC2 (349 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@ReiKai:Because from what I know (I've read up to chapter 72), and researched of her, she has no resistance or defense against Luke's telekinesis? Unless you have some sort of actual counter for that?

I know she has the connection to that wormhole generator on Jupiter with her Imaginos Body 2.0, and powerful defenses against hacking thanks to her connection to Melchizedek (it lets her hack machines as well). She has Panzer Kunst, which is a powerful fighting style that uses hypersonic vibrations to destroy an opponent from the inside out. That, and impressive regeneration (she was able to regenerate from just her brain chip) and superhuman strength/speed. She can also produce plasma, to use in combat, from her fingertips. And transform her body to make bladed weapons.

Anyway, that has nothing to do with this match.

EDIT: That, and it was an obvious bait thread.

Post by ReiKai (3,463 posts) See mini bio Level 9
Take to the thread if you wanna argue it. Because, as we all know, this thread is long over. Goku has won in a completely lopsided victory.
Post by FalconC2 (349 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@ReiKai said:

Take to the thread if you wanna argue it. Because, as we all know, this thread is long over. Goku has won in a completely lopsided victory.

Do you have some sort of bias against Star Wars, or can you not wrap your head around the fact that the expanded universe is much more powerful than you think it is?

Honest question.

As I said before, unless you have proof (that makes actual sense) Goku is not FTL (or even relativistic). Thus, Luke probably takes him out with telepathy. Whatever though, you're obviously not going to change your opinion.

Post by shonen (846 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@FalconC2 said:

@ReiKai said:

Take to the thread if you wanna argue it. Because, as we all know, this thread is long over. Goku has won in a completely lopsided victory.

Do you have some sort of bias against Star Wars, or can you not wrap your head around the fact that the expanded universe is much more powerful than you think it is?

Honest question.

As I said before, unless you have proof (that makes actual sense) Goku is not FTL (or even relativistic). Thus, Luke probably takes him out with telepathy and his other exotic abilities. Whatever though, you're obviously not going to change your opinion.

Do you have proof stating goku is not FTL or relativistic ?

Post by ReiKai (3,463 posts) See mini bio Level 9
Like I said, you wanna make your case, go to thread. Answering any such speculative arguments here is pure folly.
 
And again, already proven Goku is so vastly superior to Luke in speed that it's not even funny. it's long since been proven. However -you- have not proven Luke has FTL reaction. Not in the slightest. Nor that Luke has speed enough to actually use any of his vaunted Force abilities to even matter in this matchup.
Post by FalconC2 (349 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@shonen said:

@FalconC2 said:

@ReiKai said:

Take to the thread if you wanna argue it. Because, as we all know, this thread is long over. Goku has won in a completely lopsided victory.

Do you have some sort of bias against Star Wars, or can you not wrap your head around the fact that the expanded universe is much more powerful than you think it is?

Honest question.

As I said before, unless you have proof (that makes actual sense) Goku is not FTL (or even relativistic). Thus, Luke probably takes him out with telepathy and his other exotic abilities. Whatever though, you're obviously not going to change your opinion.

Do you have proof stating goku is not FTL or relativistic ?

There's nothing proving he is either, and that's what I'm going by. The top-tiers might be relativistic though, like Vegito and Gogeta (Gogeta's not canon, though). However, to say that Goku is FTL without solid proof would be a conjecture.

You can believe whatever you want, though. It's a free world.

Post by shonen (846 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@FalconC2 said:

@shonen said:

@FalconC2 said:

@ReiKai said:

Take to the thread if you wanna argue it. Because, as we all know, this thread is long over. Goku has won in a completely lopsided victory.

Do you have some sort of bias against Star Wars, or can you not wrap your head around the fact that the expanded universe is much more powerful than you think it is?

Honest question.

As I said before, unless you have proof (that makes actual sense) Goku is not FTL (or even relativistic). Thus, Luke probably takes him out with telepathy and his other exotic abilities. Whatever though, you're obviously not going to change your opinion.

Do you have proof stating goku is not FTL or relativistic ?

There's nothing proving he is either, and that's what I'm going by. The top-tiers might be relativistic though, like Vegito and Gogeta (Gogeta's not canon, though). However, to say that Goku is FTL without solid proof would be a conjecture.

You can believe whatever you want, though. It's a free world.

So him dodging Lightspeed beams from freiza like its nothing on namek is not ftl movement. Seems legit.

Post by shonen (846 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Here's an argument for you guys

Kaio-ken x3 Goku in the Saiyan Saga would be as fast as mach 90. Base Goku, after arriving on Namek, is clearly faster than that (able to blitz Ginyu force members with power levels in the 50-60 thousand range).

Goku is, at this point, capable of Kaio-ken x10, meaning of speeds up to mach 900.

Freeza, after powering up to his final form, can move so fast that characters above the power level of million (meaning that they can reasonably be estimated above Goku after his arrival on Namek) cannot follow his movements.

Base Goku matches his speed. So Kaio-ken x20 Goku would be around mach 18,000 for the bear minimum.

In any case, all this seems to strongly suggest that power level and speed are very closely related. But I wouldn't go so far to propose that the latter is directly proportional to the former. I

From DB manga

Chapter: 249 (DBZ 55), 7.4

Context: after Vegeta dodges Kui's attack

Kui: Wh…when did you…?!”

Vegeta: “When my battle power rises, it means that my speed raises too.”

Source

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15488

If you really think no one hit FTL speeds your delusional.

Post by FalconC2 (349 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@shonen:

So him dodging Lightspeed beams from freiza like its nothing on namek is not ftl movement. Seems legit.

We have nothing to actually prove that those beams were light-speed, for starters. We've been going over this, for a while now.

This is getting really circular and repetitive.

EDIT: That power-level equals speed thing is also really silly. I prefer actual feats or statements over that, to judge a character's speed.

Post by shonen (846 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@FalconC2 said:

@shonen:

So him dodging Lightspeed beams from freiza like its nothing on namek is not ftl movement. Seems legit.

We have nothing to actually prove that those beams were light-speed, for starters. We've been going over this, for a while now.

This is getting really circular and repetitive.

Well let's see Piccolo at start of DB beams are relativistic yes. Yet a more powerful Piccolo can't see Freeza's beams and even states

Chapter: 304 (DBZ 110), P14.8

Context: after Freeza blasts Dende

Piccolo: “I…I couldn’t see it…I only [saw] something flash…Impossible…”

So no these beams are still relativistic right ? ?

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,143 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@shonen said:

@FalconC2 said:

@shonen:

So him dodging Lightspeed beams from freiza like its nothing on namek is not ftl movement. Seems legit.

We have nothing to actually prove that those beams were light-speed, for starters. We've been going over this, for a while now.

This is getting really circular and repetitive.

Well let's see Piccolo at start of DB beams are relativistic yes. Yet a more powerful Piccolo can't see Freeza's beams and even states

Chapter: 304 (DBZ 110), P14.8

Context: after Freeza blasts Dende

Piccolo: “I…I couldn’t see it…I only [saw] something flash…Impossible…”

So no these beams are still relativistic right ? ?

It's fine dude, you'll just have to disagree with him. I had a conversation with him and he refuses to acknowledge the speed of top-tier DBZ characters. He does seem to think that Star Wars characters are in the same league as DBZ, but it's fine, we have a majority vote here, Goku stomps.

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