Lucifer and Michael ( Supernatural) vs Goku

Topic started by peruano99A on June 8, 2012. Last post by tronboy 1 year, 5 months ago.
Post by DBZ_universe (15,755 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@Haofan123: Would Genkidama erase Lucifer from existence?

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Haofan123: It still won't kill them. If it ever banished an entity on their level to oblivion, then it would work but I don't remember this. And then even if they were sent some where to die, where? Heaven? Michael is an arch angel who are second only to God in heaven and Lucy owns hell so its not like they are stuck. The special seals only temporarily banish them. They come right back only pissed off. Also, unless I'm behind, isn't Lucy in control of death? So he can't die even if Goku's attacks are enough.

And unless I'm wrong, isn't the movie non canon?

And like I said before, I think the whole thing is heavy PIS. There's no reason near infinitely powerful angels should get outsmarted by regular guys. Similar to how the Flash has been tagged by those a great deal slower than him. It's to make the whole angels vs humans thing a fair fight.

Goku has fought much more powerful supernatural entities than lucifer and michael such as the majins and now a God death. The movie is indeed canon. Toryiama wrote the script and stated that he will treat the movie as a part of the Z continuity.

Thats actually a good question. They neve have shown where angels go when they die, but we still know that we can as we have seen regular angels and archangels alike perish and never come back. Wherever they go, its probably not heaven

I am also assuming that Lucifer doesnt have death in this match as it would then be goku vs michael, lucifer, and death as I believe Lucifer could only make death do his bidding like a supernatural hitman, not gain immortality from it. death even said Luci was only using him to preform mass genocide on the humans.Plus it was already implied that Michael could still kill lucifer despite this so i dont see why somebody as powerful as goku can't either

Normally I would agree with you, but when every angel introduced in SPN has been fucked over by humans at least once during thier time on the show, it stops being PIS and it starts being a consistant thing. Examples:

Dean killing Zachariah by stabbing him when his gaurd was down

Every angel banishing sigil ever used in the series

Sam tricking Castiel into coming to earth by referencing Raiders of the lost ark

And for a more relevant instance, Luci and Michael not anticipating Sams concience coming back and hurling them into Lucifers cage

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@DBZ_universe said:

@Haofan123: Would Genkidama erase Lucifer from existence?

i dont really see why not

Post by All_StarSupes (781 posts) See mini bio Level 10

I don't watch Supernatural but I've seen a couple of clips of M & L, and I don't see how Goku would beat them. Goku could quite easily destroy their human hosts but M & L are the sons of God, they exist on a different plane than Goku. The only being who could actually kill them is God himself.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,047 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Haofan123: still, killing a regular angel and an archangel are two different animals. They destroy places just with their presence and kill people with their voices. And Sam and dean use the artifacts that kill any thing on the other angels which iirc didn't work on Lucy. And I still call it PIS due to all of their unseen feats. If it was so Easy, they would have killed lucy a long time ago.

And then we have to look at what the would do. Goku never Starts out with A full force ki attack, especially for two "humans". He starts out with fisticuffs. Matte of fact he has a habit of letting the enemy prep as much as the want to see their full power. This would give them the chance to see what goku has in store and make a plan based on that and warp anything they Need to.

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Haofan123: still, killing a regular angel and an archangel are two different animals. They destroy places just with their presence and kill people with their voices. And Sam and dean use the artifacts that kill any thing on the other angels which iirc didn't work on Lucy. And I still call it PIS due to all of their unseen feats. If it was so Easy, they would have killed lucy a long time ago.

And then we have to look at what the would do. Goku never Starts out with A full force ki attack, especially for two "humans". He starts out with fisticuffs. Matte of fact he has a habit of letting the enemy prep as much as the want to see their full power. This would give them the chance to see what goku has in store and make a plan based on that and warp anything they Need to.

It is indeed harder to kill archangels, however i do believe Goku would be able to pull it off condisidering the power of his attacks and the beings that thye have effected in the past.. Like ive said, it would be PIS if the angles were outsmarted every now and again, but it happens consistanly in the series, way to much in fact to just pass it off as PIS.

You have a point there. Goku probably wouldnt start off at full power, but then again niether would michael and lucifer. Then there is the possibility that goku would be able to sense that simething is amiss as he has done in the past and if the SPN verse is truly as powerful as people say(i dont believe it is but for the sake of this debate lets pretend it is) Goku would go all out and flatten them

Post by DBZ_universe (15,755 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@Haofan123 said:

@DBZ_universe said:

@Haofan123: Would Genkidama erase Lucifer from existence?

i dont really see why not

Also, have they ever shown multi-planet busting?

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@DBZ_universe said:

@Haofan123 said:

@DBZ_universe said:

@Haofan123: Would Genkidama erase Lucifer from existence?

i dont really see why not

Also, have they ever shown multi-planet busting?

they havent even shown city block level feats let alone planet busting. The SPNverse is all talk

Post by DBZ_universe (15,755 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@Haofan123 said:

@DBZ_universe said:

@Haofan123 said:

@DBZ_universe said:

@Haofan123: Would Genkidama erase Lucifer from existence?

i dont really see why not

Also, have they ever shown multi-planet busting?

they havent even shown city block level feats let alone planet busting. The SPNverse is all talk

So SPverse is very hyped? correct.

Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,747 posts) See mini bio Level 20

Don't know to much about supernatural, but from reading through the thread seems M and L are rather feat less. They have never encountered power on Goku's scale, nor do we know how ki attacks (much less genkidama) would effect them. What we do know is goku is faster, stronger, more powerful, ect. ect. I give him the win here.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,047 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Haofan123: Using basic hax isn't full power for those guys. Making all the air disappear or anything of that nature would be a simple thought away. Even if Goku starts and splatters their meat suits with force, they will just come back and do something even worse.

And if not, what do you think they will do?

And these guys have been getting the best of humans and other angels since literally forever and all of the sudden they lose 500 IQ points? I don't quite buy it. That unseen stuff counts as well IMO.

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Haofan123: Using basic hax isn't full power for those guys. Making all the air disappear or anything of that nature would be a simple thought away. Even if Goku starts and splatters their meat suits with force, they will just come back and do something even worse.

And if not, what do you think they will do?

And these guys have been getting the best of humans and other angels since literally forever and all of the sudden they lose 500 IQ points? I don't quite buy it. That unseen stuff counts as well IMO.

Thing is Gokus ki based attacks as well as the spirit bomb are more than likely to harm thier true forms as well. While they could remove the air, goku could probably finish them beofe that and they have never resorted to doing so in combat in the fisrt place.

Im not saying that they are stupid, but they can be fooled as shown several times during the series not to mention that they are extremely arrogant.

While the potentially have hax, most of thier feats are just talk. Goku has shown feats that put him at well above multi planet level whereas Luci and michaels best feat would probably be roasting earth as a side effect of thier battle during an unspecified period of time and that too was only talked about and never shown. Their best feats are composed of mere bluster and i remain doubtful about thier prowess even after watching the series

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,047 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Haofan123: That's because like you guys said, they never fought someone like Goku.

And hax >>> power any day.

And if that happened, I still can't see Goku resorting to Ki unless his opponent shows a similar power. And Lucy said that he taught Gabe all of his tricks so he can illusions and change his appearance as well. And this is something Lucy has done.

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Haofan123: That's because like you guys said, they never fought someone like Goku.

And hax >>> power any day.

And if that happened, I still can't see Goku resorting to Ki unless his opponent shows a similar power. And Lucy said that he taught Gabe all of his tricks so he can illusions and change his appearance as well. And this is something Lucy has done.

Thing is that it doesnt. The only reason michael and Lucy are such threats is because they can override any hax in thier verse thanks to thier overwhelming power. It would be the same vs goku except the two of them would be on the losing side

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,047 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Haofan123: Has he resisted illusions on that level before? And like I said, even if they take the air away, I can't see Goku using a kameha or spirit bomb out of nowhere.

And they are just plain more powerful than everyone else besides Death and God.

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Haofan123: Has he resisted illusions on that level before? And like I said, even if they take the air away, I can't see Goku using a kameha or spirit bomb out of nowhere.

And they are just plain more powerful than everyone else besides Death and God.

you mean illusions like this?

Roshi has been doing stuff like that since the early days of dragonball.

And its not like taking air away from goku is an instakill. He's fought through worse and thats assuming that Lucy and Michael somehow decide to preform feats that are out of character for them

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,047 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Haofan123: So your saying that Roshi is as strong as an Arch Angel? I seriously doubt that's true. Especially for Roshi. They kill people just by being present and can use it on pagan Gods. Roshi's power is nowhere near that high. And has Goku ever resisted it?

And I said, or something of that nature. It doesn't have to be that specifically.

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Haofan123: So your saying that Roshi is as strong as an Arch Angel? I seriously doubt that's true. Especially for Roshi. They kill people just by being present and can use it on pagan Gods. Roshi's power is nowhere near that high. And has Goku ever resisted it?

And I said, or something of that nature. It doesn't have to be that specifically.

not at all and im sure you know that i wasnt as well. Please dont turn this civilized debate into a flame war. Its just that roshi has been used similar tricks like that in the past (multiform technique) and goku right through that, not to mention that he has plenty of experience fighting magical entities since he was a child.

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,047 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Haofan123: I'm not turning anything into a flame war. I'm just asking the questions. But sorry though.

And that doesn't mean he can overpower an Archangel. The two of them can banish/kill Angels with a snap of their fingers. Goku fighting lesser magical beings doesn't mean he can beat two of the strongest there are.

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Haofan123: I'm not turning anything into a flame war. I'm just asking the questions. But sorry though.

And that doesn't mean he can overpower an Archangel. The two of them can banish/kill Angels with a snap of their fingers. Goku fighting lesser magical beings doesn't mean he can beat two of the strongest there are.

They may be powerful in thier verse but not when faced by an opponent as strong as goku. Angels and archangels dont mean much in fiction. You can kill the greek gods in god of way and murk death and satan in dantes inferno. The title of Archangel means little in the grand scheme of things. Early dragonball as well as the buu saga has better showing of magic than SPN ever has. The majins were some of the most dangerous creautres in the universe and goku fought them not to mention the new canon movie where goku fights a god of death who casually dispatched his SSJ3 form with a neck chop until he trancends even that

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