Lucifer and Michael ( Supernatural) vs Goku

Topic started by peruano99A on June 8, 2012. Last post by tronboy 1 year, 2 months ago.
Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Haofan123: I'm not talking about their titles. I'm talking about the fact that they can do anything they see necessary. And we don't know if Goku gets magical power or he just blows Bills up so that can't be used at the moment.

Post by Whats_out_the_bag (1,339 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Really what the fuck.

Goku has nothing on noncopsal beings. Seeing how he hasn't shown to be able to kill them.

If that wasn't enough lets look at the fucking fact we have two time manipulators here.

Better yet lets just list some of the awesome so called unrelivent powers.

Reality warping (TOO much for the dbz verse), immortal, soul manipulation, teleporation, molecular combustion. Do I need to continue?

Please we've ended this battle like 20 times already. Goku isn't winning here. He gets raped.

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Haofan123: I'm not talking about their titles. I'm talking about the fact that they can do anything they see necessary. And we don't know if Goku gets magical power or he just blows Bills up so that can't be used at the moment.

They actually released a pre movie "episode" that appearantly depicted the fight between the two. Goku eventually loses but he unlocks a new SSJ form that allowed him to fight on equal terms with bills when his SSJ3 form was getting curbstomped.

That aside, as people like Hitsusatsu have said, Goku still has a massive speed, strength, durability etc. advantage over michael and lucifer not to mention that while they may be invulnerable in thier verse( one that is overall much weaker than the DBZverse ), Gokus ki based attacks and/or his spirit bomb would most likely hurt them as such methods have injured supernatural entities in DBZ who in turn should also be much stronger than Michael or Lucy

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Haofan123: But still, how does he win? Did he resist reality warping, show the ability to live in outer space. More brute force isn't the answer here. And even if Ki attacks can hurt them in some way, we can't know that it will kill them. Remember that they are second only to God and Death himself in their verse in terms of power. Who did he fight in the past that surpasses them? Archangels weaker than them ca control time itself as well. I think I remember Lucy doing that as well but I may be wrong.

Post by Whats_out_the_bag (1,339 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Haofan123: We will see what Goku can do at the end of the film. But for now he has no means of taking any of there attacks. While him having better fire power means shit compared to someone whos noncopsal. What will a physical attack do to a noncopsal being?

Goku still has a massive speed, strength, durability etc.

Yeah thats true but what about their advantages. Do I need to list them? They're like all over this thread. Their abilities alone makes goku's advantages moot points. His durability has nothing to do with them blowing him up with magic or ripping his soul out. Nor does his speed help him move faster than time.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,661 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@Whats_out_the_bag: can they destroy a planet with one finger like Frieza did?

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Haofan123: But still, how does he win? Did he resist reality warping, show the ability to live in outer space. More brute force isn't the answer here. And even if Ki attacks can hurt them in some way, we can't know that it will kill them. Remember that they are second only to God and Death himself in their verse in terms of power. Who did he fight in the past that surpasses them? Archangels weaker than them ca control time itself as well. I think I remember Lucy doing that as well but I may be wrong.

The basis of this fight comes down to whether or not lucy and michael will suddenly decide to become crazy out of character and preform feats that they have only done on regular humans and pagan gods, not on someone who is anywhere near the level of goku. Ki should be able to kill them considering goku is easily a multi planet buster (kioken 4 was able to overpowerr a planet buster, he went to kioken 20 against freeza, ssj 1 surpases kaioken completely, so on and so forth) and his ki has harmed supernatural entities in his verse as well

Even though they are high tiers in thier verse, only being surpassed by god and death, we dont know how large that gap is For example, the Iron maiden Jaenne in shaman king should be high tiers but top tier GS hao casually killed her because his power eclipsed hers completely. just becuase they are second only to god and death doesnt mean that they are anywhere close to them in power

Also, in case anyone is curious, Death, the second(or first, if we believe his claims) most powerful character in the story can be trapped by sand crystalized by lightning and this is his best fight in the entire series:

Yet another reason i doubt SPN so harshly

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@Whats_out_the_bag said:

@Haofan123: We will see what Goku can do at the end of the film. But for now he has no means of taking any of there attacks. While him having better fire power means shit compared to someone whos noncopsal. What will a physical attack do to a noncopsal being?

Goku still has a massive speed, strength, durability etc.

Yeah thats true but what about their advantages. Do I need to list them? They're like all over this thread. Their abilities alone makes goku's advantages moot points. His durability has nothing to do with them blowing him up with magic or ripping his soul out. Nor does his speed help him move faster than time.

cool story but i already know how childish you are when it comes to debating. You can debate with me when you show maturity and self control

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Haofan123: and we still can't know that even A planetary blast can kill them. We don't know their limits for physical trauma or if there even is one. The only thing they have ever shown to work on them are special seals or materials. And like I said before, how strong were the entities and what Could they do?

Post by Whats_out_the_bag (1,339 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Haofan123: O_O What story man? I didn't say anything remotely like a story. I just said that state pure facts, please use that over done phase another time.

The basis of this fight comes down to whether or not lucy and michael will suddenly decide to become crazy out of character and preform feats that they have only done on regular humans and pagan gods, not on someone who is anywhere near the level of goku.

And what level is Goku??? Because he's just some mortal last time I checked. Being allien or planet buster doesn't make you a god nor a celestial being.

Ki should be able to kill them considering goku is easily a multi planet buster (kioken 4 was able to overpowerr a planet buster, he went to kioken 20 against freeza, ssj 1 surpases kaioken completely, so on and so forth)

Haven't we've been through this already they are noncopsal. I'll copy what it means to be noncopsal.

(The term "non-corporeal" is used to refer to a being with no true physical form. They may use physical avatars, but their essence exists in a nonphysical form. Sometimes, this could be spirit, energy, etc. Non-corporeality is different from intangibility, because in the latter case, said being's apparent body is their true body, it just can't be affected by physical forces. A non-corporeal being generally does not have any kind of defined body, but may take many different forms, all of which can be destroyed with little or no inconvenience to the true being behind them.)

Get it. Got it. Good.

and his ki has harmed supernatural entities in his verse as well

Now I'll attempt to use your same logic. Previously you said " preform feats that they have only done on regular humans and pagan gods, not on someone who is anywhere near the level of goku". Now I'll say: why would Goku preform feats that he has only done on regular humans and aliens, not on someone who is anywhere near the level of Lucy and Mike?

So why would this ki work on beings from another verse? It's not like every supernatural being is below Goku.

@DBZ_universe:

can they destroy a planet with one finger like Frieza did?

Not that I know of. Why? Are you trying to imply that they need to be planet busters to kill Goku?

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Haofan123: and we still can't know that even A planetary blast can kill them. We don't know their limits for physical trauma or if there even is one. The only thing they have ever shown to work on them are special seals or materials. And like I said before, how strong were the entities and what Could they do?

I would say yes, a planetary blast could kill them if it could injure thier true forms. It seems that thier fight which would allegedly destroy the earth as a side effect would kill one of them so a ki attack with the power of a planet buster would probably work not to mention the spirit bomb.I could ask a similar question about thier powers working on goku as well. Fore example,theres a reason castiel couldnt smite raphael before absorbing purgatroy. It was becuase he was not powerful enough to harm a power higher than himself and i believe a similar instance would occur in this bout as well. Ki attacks in the dragonball universe have been shown to work against demons as powerful as dabura and even shenron was killed by a casual ki blast so I dont see why michael and lucifer would be any better off

Post by DBZ_universe (15,661 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@Whats_out_the_bag said:

@DBZ_universe:

can they destroy a planet with one finger like Frieza did?

Not that I know of. Why? Are you trying to imply that they need to be planet busters to kill Goku?

I am not trying to say that, because I know they got some hax. The only reason why I asked is because if they can't do such a thing, then they are not that powerful only broken.

Can they travel faster than light physically and do they have FTL reaction speed?

can they tank multi planet busting to the face? can they kill their opponent even if he is on the other side of the Solar System?

can they sense a planet busting attack from the moon?

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Haofan123: I don't think it's the actual planet destruction but the fight itself that would kill them. Normal physical damage can't hurt them since their real bodies can't be touched like the beings from DBZ can. Those guys are on the same plain of existence as their opponents. Attacking their hand puppets won't do squat hence why they don't care about them in the slightest and just fix them if there is damage. And like you said, it would be extremely out of character for Goku to use any substantial Ki blast out of nowhere. He only does so when his opponents do so as I have noticed unless I'm mistaken.

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Haofan123: I don't think it's the actual planet destruction but the fight itself that would kill them. Normal physical damage can't hurt them since their real bodies can't be touched like the beings from DBZ can. Those guys are on the same plain of existence as their opponents. Attacking their hand puppets won't do squat hence why they don't care about them in the slightest and just fix them if there is damage. And like you said, it would be extremely out of character for Goku to use any substantial Ki blast out of nowhere. He only does so when his opponents do so as I have noticed unless I'm mistaken.

True, but what i meant was that a fight that would cause planetary destruction as a side effect would be enough to kill one of them so if an attack if they were hit with an attack of greater magnitude, not to mention that the spirit bomb is still a major factor. While it is true that Goku wouldnt harm them if he were to assume that they were humans, I believe he would be able to sense thier threat level and react accordingly like he did against trunks

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Haofan123: What would he be sensing? They don't have Ki. We don't even know what they do have. As far as the series has bothered to say, they just are.

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Haofan123: What would he be sensing? They don't have Ki. We don't even know what they do have. As far as the series has bothered to say, they just are.

goku didnt need ki to sense trunks's intentions. I believe that gokus words wre "I searched your feelings so I knew You'd stop."

Post by Whats_out_the_bag (1,339 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Haofan123:

It was said the battle between them would result in the earth being roasted, not both of them dying. One of them would have died due to the other being stabbed with the archangel blade.

How fast can Goku generate enough energy to take out Lucifer? The other problem is lucifer even evil.

@DBZ_universe:

All of these are irreverent but I'll answer.

Can they travel faster than light physically and do they have FTL reaction speed?

An angel told sam she would kill him and then scatter his cells across the universe in order to prevent Lucifer from resurrecting him.

Heaven is infinite in their universe and for an angel to search all of them and find dean and sam is pretty fast. The angel Zachariah didn't find them instantly but took a little while, but to find them in that large of a space is pretty fast.

can they tank multi planet busting to the face? can they kill their opponent even if he is on the other side of the Solar System?

The are noncopsal so yes they can tank that. They should be capable of doing so, I know there little brother was in heaven and killed Castiel.

can they sense a planet busting attack from the moon?

I'm pretty sure they can, as they were capable of calculating that amount of damage death was going to do on chicago, or the amount of damage Lucy and Mike were going to do.

They can also calculate speeds, as Castiel was able to calculate how fast the cake was flying he said it was moving exactly at super sonic speeds.

Now I want to ask some questions.

Does Goku have time manipulation resistance?

Does Goku have reality warping resistance?

Does Goku have soul manipulation resistance?

Is Goku immune to mind raping illusions?

Does Goku have the same basic anatomy as a human?

Post by UltimateHero0406 (5,030 posts) See mini bio Level 16

@Haofan123: Even so, it doesn't mean he will automatically know what they are, and what they can do and just decide to nuke them. That's if the same thing even will work. Remember that Goku will only be looking at puppets. He may or may not be able to do the same to their true forms.

Post by Haofan123 (3,675 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Haofan123: Even so, it doesn't mean he will automatically know what they are, and what they can do and just decide to nuke them. That's if the same thing even will work. Remember that Goku will only be looking at puppets. He may or may not be able to do the same to their true forms.

correct me if im wrong, but i distinctly remember that when either of those two possess someone they pretty much take over entirely. It was pretty PIS for sam to take over his body once more and when dean asked for adam michael even said that the original owner of the body "isnt here at the moment"

Post by DBZ_universe (15,661 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@Whats_out_the_bag: Ok, I'll answer.

No (but who knows really since IT is instant and if you can move at a instant speed then you should be able to move while time is frozen)

Maybe. Ki can also be used a shield here. Example to this is Vegito resisting the effects of the candy beam, also if we add GT. Goku reversed the effects of the Black Star Dragon Balls when he turned SSJ4, and the Black Star DBs can grant any wish.

I don't think he does.

No. (but with sensing, he could potentially sense where his opponents are even if it's an illusion)

No because he is an alien not a human.

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