Kyuubi Mode Naruto Vs Enel

Topic started by Ikki_Minami_ on March 28, 2013. Last post by othus12 1 year, 4 months ago.
Post by taichokage (13,339 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Not good reactions? As far as I'm concerned, Enel has the best reactions thus far in the HST. His color of observation haki is the most impressive seen this far and he can move at the speed of lightning. Naruto is outmatched in both speed and reactions, as good as he is in both categories. And even a biju dama isnt on par with Enel's best attacks. Albeit he used ark maxim, Id consider it part of his tech and gear. Even without it, he can outpace Naruto all day long spamming 200 million volts. Even if Naruto can tank it in Kyubi form, he can only last for a few minutes at a time in that form. Enel is highly underrated sometimes because he got beaten by Luffy who was specifically immune to Enel's main power and still almost beat Luffy.
Post by othus12 (6,845 posts) See mini bio Level 13

naruto isnt surviving 200 million volts to the face. its a different kind of energy than the bijuu dama. even mid tier toriko characters would get hurt by that.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,954 posts) See mini bio Level 15
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@taichokage: People always pull the Enel has bad reactions because a weaker Luffy managed to tag him. The whole fight was PIS.

Post by eddz99 (2,512 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Naruto 1 shots via 9 tailed bijuu dama. This could go eitherway unless we can see more of naruto's new durability feats, he might even tank a meteor in the future chapters.

Post by othus12 (6,845 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@eddz99: how is biju dama gonna kill lightning? or even hit him? besides it takes to much time to charge, in that time enel can do the 100,000,000 volt vari in narutos face and that would kill him.

Post by eddz99 (2,512 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@othus12:

Well bijuu dama has hit people who can dodge it easily, i don't know why they don't run away :o, this could go eitherway, rasen shuriken can deal massive damage to enel and enel can 1 shot naruto.

Post by othus12 (6,845 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@eddz99: rasen shuriken shouldnt be able to to do anything to enel at all. besides if pein got away surely enel can too

Post by eddz99 (2,512 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@othus12: Tell my how rasen shuriken is not going to affect enel? Pein got away because of his 6 paths which can see naruto's movements, Besides this is kyuubi mode naruto which is like 100x faster...

Post by othus12 (6,845 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@eddz99: not fast enough, he could barely outrun the raikage. enel is lightning speed with precognition reflexes btw i forgot intan was off.

Post by shinjihirako123 (582 posts) See mini bio Level 9

you kno its funny, enel cant even use his 2 strongest attacks.

1 he doesnt even have his ship so he's not using raigo

2 in order for him to use his 200,000,000 volt attack, he has to be made of pure electricity, intangibility is off so thats not happenin.

even if it was allowed. he'd be hit with a BJ bomb long before he fully transforms

a bloodlusted enel is NOT going to fly around out of range and spam attacks, he's gonna go for broke from the beginning

if enel reactions are as fast as everyone is saying, why couldnt he dodge luffy's unpredictable attacks? unpredictable or not if your fast enough to react, you can dodge them.

its the same as someone attacking you from behind without you knowing it but you dodge it. you didnt know it was coming. but because of your reactions. you dodged it enel couldnt do that

the ONLY reason he was beating luffy was soley because of mantra.

but it goes either way im leaning towards kyubi tho

Post by Yusuke52 (426 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@othus12 said:

@eddz99: how is biju dama gonna kill lightning?

Rules

- Intangibility off.

Please stop acting like he is intangible here, and even if he was it's generally accepted that a strong enough attack (beyond their natural durability outside of logia form) with enough AoE or "force" to blast the Logia Body beyond its limits of reforming is enough to kill them so as not to invoke a NLF on Logia.

Same principle applied to Aizen when everyone claimed he was immortal beyond any and all limtis of destroying his body by physical means. Same rule applies here, if the attack is strong enough then he is screwed regardless as his natural durability can't tank the attack anyway.

It's fair and well rounded, so even if he could turn intangible he is still getting obliterated before he can do anything to counter.

or even hit him?

The Bijuu Dama moves at speeds well beyond the reaction times on anyone in One Piece, he won't be able to react to it and dodge it once it's fired. The same goes for Kizaru, the only person who would have much of a chance is likely Kuma given his repel can be handy in such a situation.

besides it takes to much time to charge, in that time enel can do the 100,000,000 volt vari in narutos face and that would kill him.

That changed the second Naruto and Madara and Bee force spammed Bijuu Dama like bullets from a gun at massively hypersonic speeds (Varies from mach 30 to mach 140). The Charge time is virtually non existent now given the gaps between each Bijuu Dama is only a few feet in the continuous barrage.

The only time it charges now is when 2 or come combine their power into one and even then thats only a few seconds. Given the above (And the fact that Madara was able to put swords into all of them too shows you just how fast he really is.) It's fired and explodes long before Enel can react to it.

Also his attacks will not get through the shroud to actually hit him in the face, lets clear that up first. It was able to tank a teratons worth of energy straight to the chest with no visable signs of effort so Enel will be there for a long time spamming his attacks to break through that.

While some might call the fight PIS, it does not matter either way. Its the only fight we have to go off with him in it and his reactions im sorry to say were not that good compaired to guys later on. His Haki was impressive, no doubt about that. But it does not mean that he is "faster" than anyone else, only going by what is shown. If or when he does appear again im sure he can get a boost to match the new characters, but until then he is still only mach 7 in reactions and combat speed whether you like it or not.

I'm not giving him feats he has not earned the right to be powerscalled from. I conversely will do the same for Naruto with the new Mach 140 calc (When I last checked) for Hashirama and Madara until he earns the right. But if you want to give him mach 19 speeds to make him equal to the rest of the verse then I will by all rights give Naruto mach 140 combat and reactions.

Either way you want to swing this you still need to provide feats to back up your claims on his reactions and combat speed. I don't doubt his Lightning MOVEMENT speed, but he first needs to react to use it to escape the Bijuu Dama.

rasen shuriken shouldnt be able to to do anything to enel at all. besides if pein got away surely enel can too

not fast enough, he could barely outrun the raikage. enel is lightning speed with precognition reflexes btw i forgot intan was off.

Its packing firepower above his threshold so yes it will kill him if it hits, it also moves at mach 20 speeds which I have already covered. It would be an incredible stretch to give him mach 20 reactions (His Haki might be better than the others but that does not mean he is as fast or faster than anyone at mach 20, and to give you the idea "if you polish a shit, it's still a shit"), the most I would give him is just above mach 10 to around mach 15 using Mantra, which is double what it was before, but even then thats unlikely and a random guess too since he has never displayed anything on this level. While he might be able to react to it, he is going to have to be very careful as a single slip up and he is getting sliced to pieces.

Even if I did allow you to have mach 20 the Bijuu Dama is still double his speed and reactions, if not more. He still won't react in time to dodge it.

But if Logia Dispersion was on, the Rasenshuriken would not touch him so I will give you that. It lacks the overall power, force and AoE to get past the Logia Body

And he casually dodged the Raikage. His lightning speed is MOVEMENT ONLY (Please dont bring this up again until you can show feats on a level where he can react to these attacks to actually use it.) he still needs to react to mach 20 attacks which is something he has never done before, precog or not (I give you the benefit of the doubt here, I let him have decent reactions for late game One Piece despite never showing them, still won't change the fact the Bijuu Dama are too fast for him to react to).

Also the bolded, Nagato is a solid and proven mach 20+ fighter in combat and reactions. He is by rights faster than Enel in this regard, just because he can dodge it does not mean Enel can.

Im not underestimating Enel, I know full well what he can do, but when you are fighting something that exceeds your verse in speed (in this context, reaction and combat, Naruto also has a form of precog of his own but it works more on instincts and predicting movement and energy than Haki) and outright power through AoE, it's hard to make a convincing argument in which he can react to and run from explosives that move faster than anything in his verse and by effect anything he himself has actually reacted to.

Naruto wins this more times than not, Enels ONLY chance is to run away and hit him when the Shroud runs out in which is a rare instance given he will be dead most times before he gets the chance to try this.

I give the win to Naruto 8/10 with the Logia Body on or off (Possible 7/10 with it on).

When or If he shows back up in the manga and gets some more beffiting feats in the reaction and speed department, then we can come back and talk this through again. As it stands, a Bijuu Dama to the face 8 times out of 10.

Post by FormerCrimsonKing (4,439 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@taichokage: what reactions has enel shown??? non. everything that he's done was all because of mantra. take that away and he couldnt even dodge luffy's attacks. your overestimating him

Post by taichokage (13,339 posts) See mini bio Level 20
I'm saying his reactions are great because of Mantra. It should count. That's like saying Sasuke's reactions wouldn't be that good if his sharingan were removed.
Post by FormerCrimsonKing (4,439 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@taichokage: Oh ok. Even with Mantra that doesnt put his reactions anywhere near the top. even in his own verse

Post by taichokage (13,339 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Nobody else in One Piece has showcased observation haki to his level yet. No doujutsu in Naruto can match it either. Some Bleach characters might have pure reaction speed that's better, but it doesn't beat seeing the immediate future.
Post by othus12 (6,845 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@Yusuke52: i know you love naruto but clearly you are overhyping him A LOT

first, i cleared that i forgot intan was off (nerfing enel should give you an idea of how this is a mismatch but ok)

second, saying naruto can tank blasts in the range of Teratons is one of the biggests lies ever. 10 teratons are enough to erase a country the size of the united states so clearly you don't even understand the scale of power you are talking about. he was tanking multi-mountain level blasts at best.(bet you wanna gang him with zebura right?)

Nagato is a solid and proven mach 20+ fighter in combat and reactions. He is by rights faster than Enel in this regard, just because he can dodge it does not mean Enel can.

you should go to the OBD, enel destroyed pein with ease, some people even called it spite.(guess that tells you something about enel's reaction time)

now haki adds to the reaction time massively because its precognition opposed to true reflexes, the weakness of haki users is that they may not be able to keep up (explained by marigold and sandersonia) unless you think marigold has better reaction time than enel right? even she could foresee luffy at gear second and luffy is at hypersonic+ (BTW enel was dodging luffy at lightning speed, thats what forced luffy to use random attacks)

bijuu dama calced at mach 30? thats cute(not to mention wrong, bijuu dama was calced at mach 20 in naruto forums), enel's speed was calced at mach 437 and his range is well over 10 miles

for all you know as soon as the fight starts enel can get away, and spam el thor from a distance so far naruto wouldnt realize what hit him, he can also go away until his kurama form fades. enel can do so many things to make this an unfair fight, the only chances i give naruto of winning are because of enel's cockiness but not because of naruto's power.

clearly you know a lot about naruto, about one piece...not so much.

Post by FormerCrimsonKing (4,439 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@othus12: you care to post links to all these calcs?

Post by othus12 (6,845 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@FormerCrimsonKing: ughhh you are killing me, i was reading and posting from too many sites i dont really feel like doing so since it would be a total pain in the ass but im sure you can find them at the OBD and naruto forums. to tell the truth i went trough a lot of sites, i understand if you dont believe me though maybe ill post them later when i feel like doing research all over again. besides i would like naruto to win this one

Post by FormerCrimsonKing (4,439 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@othus12: its not the fact that i do/dont believe you, its just that you made claims i've never heard of before. im always open to info i havent seen before

Post by othus12 (6,845 posts) See mini bio Level 13

@FormerCrimsonKing: lets see if i can explain all the arguments

1.-naruto tanking teratons of force is a lie you can tell by common logic

2.-enel destroying nagato (its at the OBD on enel's remarkable matches)

3.-luffy hypersonic+ is at the OBD and sandersonia saying she can predict luffy but cant keep up with him its at the episode 414

4.- bijuu dama calced at match 20 appears on naruto forums

5.- enels speed= lightning speed (which is roughly mach 437, range stated at the OBD)

i hope this helps you finding the source of my arguments

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