Kurumi Tokisaki vs Kenpachi Zaraki

Topic started by LHWKnight on June 1, 2014. Last post by OfficialRikudouSennin 1 month, 3 weeks ago.
Post by LHWKnight (2,683 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Kurumi Tokisaki

Angel: Zafkiel

Weapon: Clock, Flintlock Pistol, Musket

Astral Dress: Elohim

Skills: [A gun with special bullets that can activate different effects depending on the bullet.]

  • First Bullet: Aleph (Accelerated Time, aka super speed power on target object or subject) Activated by pointing at 1 o'clock time on the clock.
  • Second Bullet: Bet (Slows down time on a target object or subject) Activated by pointing at the 2 o'clock time on the clock.
  • Third Bullet: Gimel
  • Fourth Bullet: Dalet (Rewinds time on a target object or subject) Activated by pointing at the 4 o'clock time on the clock.
  • Fifth Bullet: Hei
  • Sixth Bullet: Vav
  • Seventh Bullet: Zayin (Temporarily freezes time on a target object or subject) Activated by pointing at the 7 o'clock time on the clock.
  • Eight Bullet: Het (Creates a clone of a target object or subject) Activated by pointing at the 8 o'clock time on the clock.
  • Ninth Bullet: Tet
  • Tenth Bullet: Yud (Peeks into the past of a target object or subject) Activated by pointing at the 10 o'clock time on the clock.
  • Eleventh Bullet: Yud Aleph
  • Twelfth Bullet: Yud Bet (Travels through time at the cost of a Spirit's power) Activated by pointing at the 12 o'clock time on the clock.

Kurumi has the ability to manipulate the 4th dimension, mainly time, but her main power is associated with controlling shadows. Shadow is her primary power while Time is her secondary power in terms of usage. Combined with the power of time, she can create a clone with all her experiences, memories, abilities, etc. These clones are less powerful than Kurumi herself as she has mentioned in the last chapter of volume 3 and in the epilogue of volume 4.

Her "Angel" is very powerful, but is also a double-edged sword. Each time she uses its abilities, it consumes a bit of her time (life.) In order to get back her own time, she has the ability to consume other people's "time" to refill hers. She has two intricately designed guns as weapons which resemble the hands of a clock: the musket (long weapon) for the minute hand and the flintlock (short weapon) for the hour hand.

Kurumi also has the ability to call and dismiss spacequakes at will as shown in the series while she confronted Shido on the school's rooftop.

To activate any power she needs, she first needs to call her Angel (regardless of whether or not the Angel has been summoned already), and position her flintlock at the number of the bullet on the Angel. Next, she needs to shoot the bullet at the target with the gun. In the event that she needs to use the power on herself, then she is required to shoot herself.

Only the original Kurumi is capable of using her Spirit powers but her clones aren't to be taken lightly, as they can use her guns, summon the <City of Devouring Time> and can even summon Spacequakes.

Usually she shots her guns at herself to activate her time attacks, but considering the fact that she can tag Mama and a small army of DEM mecha girls in the air not to mention speed blitzing all of them and dodging all of their fire while flying.

She is using magical shotguns and magical bullets that deal with time and she can control and manipulate spacial quakes.

Kurumi has dodge, flown past an evaded, missiles, explosions (Out ran multiple) and other DEM tech weapons. in fact the DEM and Mana whose body has been modified by DEM Corporation to enhance her combat abilities, are not even a threat to her.

then there is her ability to manipulate shadows, which is on par with Alucard's as she can use them to trap and devour people, teleport, stab pierce etc.

also she can create countless clones that are as strong and fast as she is, and they can take a lot of punishment. (Unlike Naruto's normal shadow clones)

Vs

Kenpachi Zaraki

Kenpachi Zaraki (Anime Portrait) post time skip, Shinigami uniform
Kenpachi Zaraki (Anime Portrait) post time skip, Shinigami uniform

Match Rules

Round 1: sealed/ zanpakuto

Round 2: Shikai

Location Karakura Town

Battle theme

Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,732 posts) See mini bio Level 20

Zaraki likely takes this. Whike Clock chan is pretty hax and has decent speed, she bas simply never encountered destruction and durability on the scale that Kenpachi possesses. He could take out an army of her clones with an omnidirectional reiatsu wave and proceed to cut through the original with kendo.

Post by GeneralVan (1,597 posts) See mini bio Level 9

@hitsusatsu11: How strong is DAL compared to the Power 6, Yu Yu Hakusho, etc?

Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,732 posts) See mini bio Level 20

@GeneralVan: Its hard to say because its not a show with a power level focus like the ones you mentioned. Generally its weaker than the HST in dc/durability/speed but some spirits like kurami have hax abilities (and decent stats) that would allow them to compete with or beat mid-semi high tier HST characters, maybe beginning dark tournament YHS. Theres also some mechanized weaponry which is fairly formidable. (Around the same level)

I should also add too ive just seen the two anime seasons, haven't read the LNs yet.

Post by LHWKnight (2,683 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@hitsusatsu11: Kurumi's hax is a little much for even Zaraki his soul wave works on negating Reshi abilities, Kurumi doesn't use reishi and Zaraki can't exactly do anything against spacial distortions as seen in his battle with Gremmy.

Kurumi is an S-class threat and we have yet to see her full power.

  • Tohka's threat level is AAA-class, but when she is Inversed, it's increased to SS-class, the highest so far, surpassing the most dangerous Spirit, Kurumi.
    • As of volume 10, Origami, who was turned into a spirit by <Phantom>, is evenly matched with Tohka, both in their normal and inversed form.

basically this is how they are scaled in power.

Post by taichokage (12,684 posts) See mini bio Level 20
If she really is that broken, that's why I was asking why the likes of Bambietta would be paired up against her. If she can take Zaraki who by feats could probably be considered top 10 in the HST,that's rather one sided wouldn't you say?
Post by LHWKnight (2,683 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@taichokage: Because I am experimenting.

Post by taichokage (12,684 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Fair enough I suppose.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,732 posts) See mini bio Level 20

@LHWKnight: I haven't read the LNs and I dont want to get to spoiled, but from what I know besides the quakes the kind of force zaraki can casualy put out is far above what kurumi can take, and bleach characters at the very least have approx. equal speed to spirits.

She has some hax moves, but I mean she's not that hax. She cant one hit kill ken or anything.

Post by LHWKnight (2,683 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@hitsusatsu11: Time stop, magic bullet to the head, heart, soul chain, Soul sleet, + all of her clones using spacial quakes. I think you are forgetting that if you can get through a shinigami's defense that it is pretty easy to kill them.

he can try to take her out only to find out to late that it was a clone, he can take out dozens of them, while she can use her powers from inside her shadows or drag in into her shadows where his abilities be become useless.

Also you have to take in the account that all of her shadow clones can use all of her abilities except time manipulation. mean they could still use her guns.

Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,732 posts) See mini bio Level 20

@LHWKnight: Her bullets would never puncture Kenpachi. She could never drag kenpachi anywhere. She would get decapitated instantly. And she coukd only hold the comparatively weak singing lesbian in her shadows for a few minutes, ken coukd probably break out instantly. Kens d.c and durability have been pegged at island all the way to small country. A single slash wipes out her clones and likely her to.'Easy to kill' is not a phrase I would use to describe kenpachi.

Idk maybe your read the LNs and maybe kurumi gets better feats, but based on the anime she is on a complete lower tier than Ken.

Post by LHWKnight (2,683 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@hitsusatsu11: Yes her bullets would in fact pierce him, as I said they are not Reishi based and they are enhance by the power to manipulate the forth dimension (all of her bullets also she has the speed advantage and the element of surprise as she is more versatile.

Zaraki was injured by Gremmies spacial distortion, this means that abilities that manipulate the higher dimensions would do a lot of damage. space & time are practically equal. (Space-time manipulation.

Space-quakes are considered distortions from another dimension so them damaging Zaraki is plausible and she would win by wearing him down like how the four chicken-heads beat him.

Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,732 posts) See mini bio Level 20

@LHWKnight: Zaraki is not only durable vs reishi, rather his reiatsu makes him durable against all incoming force. Her bullets do not have the feats to suggest they can pierce kenpachi.

Shes definitely more versitile, but the difference in attack and defense is to much.

Post by LHWKnight (2,683 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@hitsusatsu11:Bro her bullets do have the feats, because they are enhanced bullets used to manipulate time, and her spacial-quakes are distortions in space. that is like saying Kenpachi should have been immune to the galaxy room.

Space-time manipulation >> space manipulation. Kenpachi has been shown to take a massive amount of damage from attacks that operate on the fourth dimensional plane.

Do I need to brake out the Science dictionary?

there is a huge difference between imaginary bullets and rockets and space-time bullets.

Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,732 posts) See mini bio Level 20

@LHWKnight: Ya, break out the science dictionary for made up sci fi concepts on a harem character who hasnt shown the feats of Zaraki, or even Nnotira, Grimmjow or Ulquiorra for that matter. That'll help. It doesnt matter if her bullets come from the 5th, 6th or whatever psudeo scientific dimension. Im not saying Kens immune to thm, im saying they are well, well within his damage soak capabilities.

DEM, A bunch of girls in mechanized suits that are building level+ contended with her and her clones before. Island level+ Kenpachi one shots her and her clones if he hits them. She is versitile and very mobile she could stretch out the fight a bit, but in the end ken is on a whole other the level of power.

Post by LHWKnight (2,683 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@hitsusatsu11: You obviously don't know how hax abilities work, Hax can supersede durability. an example of this is superman vs a kryptinate bullet, superman can survive 15 suns exploding in his face no problem, but a kyptinite bullet into him and he is down for the count or put him against someone like doomsday and he gets his ass handed to him.

Kurumi has defeated an entire army of those girls, and five spirits all in the spanned of maybe thirty minutes. Kurumi has dodged and out ran missiles, bullets and explosion that were designed with the sole purpose of defeating powerful entities.

Kurumi has dozens of clones as powerful as she is and considering the fact that she can destroy an entire city on her own, that DC just adds up.

And Kenpachi ain't soaking shit, he can't even with stand Freaking space let alone take something enhance with the power of time manipulation. also what part of space-quakes = galaxy room don't you understand.

the galaxy room did least damage than 12 space quakes can do. Kurumi has murdered millions of people with her space distortions and destroyed cities how much would 12 city destroying spacial distortion going off at the same time in the exact same place, destroy?

and then Kenpachi got smacked around by four girls that would are using city block level abilities each.

another example is Kumagawa verse someone like say Goku. Goku can survive planet busting no problem, Kuma is city level or something, but if he used AL on goku, he'd beat him.

my final example is God mode Rei vs lets say Toriko and the other top tiers ... you see were I am going with this.

Hax >> Durability end of story. Time manipulating bullet and 12 or more spacial distortions >>> Zaraki kenpachi's durability.

Post by LHWKnight (2,683 posts) See mini bio Level 12

what do you think?

Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,732 posts) See mini bio Level 20

@LHWKnight:

@hitsusatsu11: You obviously don't know how hax abilities work, Hax can supersede durability. an example of this is superman vs a kryptinate bullet, superman can survive 15 suns exploding in his face no problem, but a kyptinite bullet into him and he is down for the count or put him against someone like doomsday and he gets his ass handed to him.

Man, again with the head canon? 'Hax' is not a blanket catch all. Kurumi's moveset just cant overcome kenpachi. Her bullets have never taken down anyone with Kens damage soak. Know why? Because no one (so far) in DAL has shown half the durability of Kenpachi. And also the power. A single swing from Ken can level a mountain or devastate a city (perhaps country depending on calcs) No spirit can dish out or tank that.

Also Superman cant take 15 exploding suns, post crisis superman was KO'd once by moonbusting force and again by (explicit) continent level force. But thats irrelevant.

urumi has defeated an entire army of those girls, and five spirits all in the spanned of maybe thirty minutes. Kurumi has dodged and out ran missiles, bullets and explosion that were designed with the sole purpose of defeating powerful entities.

If you paired her against a speedster like Youroichi or Ichigo I would make a case for speed being equal or possibly in the bleach characters favor. Since ken is not known for speed feats Ill grant kurumi the edge in speed. As I said its likely the only thing allowing her to make this a fight.

The explosions and force levied against Clock chan are no where near what even SS arc ken puts out/tanks.

urumi has dozens of clones as powerful as she is and considering the fact that she can destroy an entire city on her own, that DC just adds up.

And Kenpachi ain't soaking shit, he can't even with stand Freaking space let alone take something enhance with the power of time manipulation. also what part of space-quakes = galaxy room don't you understand.

She can only possibly destroy a city on her own via space quakes, which are hard to control. Can she even use them directed at an enemy? Her actual battle attacks havent been shown to be above bldg level. Even so wide concensus is city busting is beneath Zaraki. And there is no proof at all of every single one of her clones being able to city bust. If so post it.

Considering opponents with what, probably 1/100 th of Kens durability have fought with her and survived Ken is, definitely, soaking and even tanking most of her attacks. And its not like her bullets completely bypass durability and instant kill things.

the galaxy room did least damage than 12 space quakes can do. Kurumi has murdered millions of people with her space distortions and destroyed cities how much would 12 city destroying spacial distortion going off at the same time in the exact same place, destroy?

I thought she only killed like 10 00 ppl over a period of years.

But please, if Clock chan has multi city+ destructive power please post it, because I dont see it.

The only time spirits are able to destroy a city is when they mysteriously appear and created a space quake. There battle attacks generally haven't ben shown to be above bldg. level.

1 and then Kenpachi got smacked around by four girls that would are using city block level abilities each.

2 another example is Kumagawa verse someone like say Goku. Goku can survive planet busting no problem, Kuma is city level or something, but if he used AL on goku, he'd beat him.

3 my final example is God mode Rei vs lets say Toriko and the other top tiers ... you see were I am going with this.

1 Still higher output than the spirits geneally show in combat. But regardless, meteor feat and others solidly put Ken at island level or greater.

2 More random characters that have nothing to do with anything. Sigh, its a shame when people pounce on buzzwords and stop using logic. Because you call something hax, doesnt mean everything called hax is equal. AF is on completely different level than anything kurumi could do. Also lol at Misogi being city level with out it, what's city level his screws lol?

3 I would love to see Rei crush Toriko. That should really be animated. But anyway, we have to look at things on an individual basis, cant just say hax> power, or power> speed, ect.

Hax >> Durability end of story. Time manipulating bullet and 12 or more spacial distortions >>> Zaraki kenpachi's durability.

Sure. If her hax+attacks were island-country level then he they'd be > Kens durability.

Are they? For sure not in the anime, if you've read the LNs and she has the feats there that are > feats from ken vs Nnotira and Gremmy then post. Otherwise she has a very bad go of it vs current Kenpachi, and honestly even earlier versions could do quite well here.

Post by 5th (1,201 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Pretty sure if Ken can pulverize a meteor, he sure as hell can slice Kurumi up.

Especially from the amount of damage he's soaked in the latest arc of Bleach,

I'd definitely give this one to Ken, clones, guns, and magic bullets aren't cutting it for me, especially against a guy who can cut through a dimensional portal leading to space.

Post by LHWKnight (2,683 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@hitsusatsu11 said:

@LHWKnight:

@hitsusatsu11: You obviously don't know how hax abilities work, Hax can supersede durability. an example of this is superman vs a kryptinate bullet, superman can survive 15 suns exploding in his face no problem, but a kyptinite bullet into him and he is down for the count or put him against someone like doomsday and he gets his ass handed to him.

Man, again with the head canon? 'Hax' is not a blanket catch all. Kurumi's moveset just cant overcome kenpachi. Her bullets have never taken down anyone with Kens damage soak. Know why? Because no one (so far) in DAL has shown half the durability of Kenpachi. And also the power. A single swing from Ken can level a mountain or devastate a city (perhaps country depending on calcs) No spirit can dish out or tank that.

Kenpachi was effected by Galaxy room which is on the plane of space which is equal to time. Kenpachi was only able to swing through it because the creator used spirit energy to create it, and even then he still took massive damage.

15 suns exploding in his face.

She can only possibly destroy a city on her own via space quakes, which are hard to control. Can she even use them directed at an enemy?

Kurumi also has the ability to call and dismiss spacequakes at will as shown in the series while she confronted Shido on the school's rooftop.

  • First Bullet: Aleph (Accelerated Time, aka super speed power on target object or subject) Activated by pointing at 1 o'clock time on the clock.
  • Second Bullet: Bet (Slows down time on a target object or subject) Activated by pointing at the 2 o'clock time on the clock.
  • Seventh Bullet: Zayin (Temporarily freezes time on a target object or subject) Activated by pointing at the 7 o'clock time on the clock.

Also it doesn't have to be 12, it can be 20, 30, as much as she wants to start with.

either way she is beating Kenpachi.

When she shots her time bullets, once they come into contact they activate and their is no way to stop them.

Only the original Kurumi is capable of using her Spirit powers but her clones aren't to be taken lightly, as they can use her guns, summon the <City of Devouring Time> and can even summon Spacequakes.

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