Kuma & Law Vs Madara & Hashirama

Topic started by One_Piece_God on April 16, 2013. Last post by All_StarSupes 1 year, 2 months ago.
Post by One_Piece_God (540 posts) See mini bio Level 8
  • Order from the world government to eliminate the 2 greatest threats from the leaf village
  • All serious
  • No knowledge
  • No prep
  • Madara has access to Rinnegan abilities and 9 tails
  • Hashirama can access sage mode
  • Kuma pre full cyborg mod
  • Post time skip Law
  • Standard equipment - bible, sword, scrolls etc
  • Battle in leaf village
Post by taichokage (12,486 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Team Kuma. His devil fruit and Law's are the most hax so far. They can both blitz, BFR and basically island bust. They'll go in, overwhelm team Hashirama with speed and teleporting, then basically one or two shot them.
Post by YoungChief (491 posts) See mini bio Level 7
Online Now

Tough one, but Hashirama is not getting blitzed here. His most recent calc/feat puts him at massively hypersonic, the only speed he's gonna have any trouble with is their teleporting, which he is probably used to since his brother invented the flying thunder god technique, also hashirama's wood has been shown to tank bijuu bombs from the kyuubi, island busting power isn't gonna do much to him if anything at all, btw there isn't a one piece character that's an island buster yet, you'd have to stretch things a bit to find even a mountain buster in one piece that isn't named whitebeard or blackbeard, and even with them it's a stretch since the best quake fruit feat is splitting an island

Post by One_Piece_God (540 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@taichokage: What about genjutsu??

@YoungChief said:

His most recent calc/feat puts him at massively hypersonic

Where did you get this information from? Because I have not seen any 'massively hypersonic' speed feats from Hashirama.

@YoungChief said:

island busting power isn't gonna do much to him if anything at all, btw there isn't a one piece character that's an island buster yet, you'd have to stretch things a bit to find even a mountain buster in one piece that isn't named whitebeard or blackbeard, and even with them it's a stretch since the best quake fruit feat is splitting an island

I have not seen any island busting feats in Naruto either & why won't an island busting attack not do anything to him.

When people say island buster they have to be specific as island vary in size greatly.

Law seems to have cut Punk Hazard in two, if you do not believe that feat shown (as I am a bit sceptical myself), he is certainly a mountain slicer.

I am a tiny bit confused how things are calculated on this site. Does it go building lvl< multi building lvl< city block lvl< multi city block lvl< town lvl< mountain lvl< city lvl etc..

Post by YoungChief (491 posts) See mini bio Level 7
Online Now

@One_Piece_God said:

@taichokage: What about genjutsu??

@YoungChief said:

His most recent calc/feat puts him at massively hypersonic

Where did you get this information from? Because I have not seen any 'massively hypersonic' speed feats from Hashirama.

@YoungChief said:

island busting power isn't gonna do much to him if anything at all, btw there isn't a one piece character that's an island buster yet, you'd have to stretch things a bit to find even a mountain buster in one piece that isn't named whitebeard or blackbeard, and even with them it's a stretch since the best quake fruit feat is splitting an island

I have not seen any island busting feats in Naruto either & why won't an island busting attack not do anything to him.

When people say island buster they have to be specific as island vary in size greatly.

Law seems to have cut Punk Hazard in two, if you do not believe that feat shown (as I am a bit sceptical myself), he is certainly a mountain slicer.

I am a tiny bit confused how things are calculated on this site. Does it go building lvl< multi building lvl< city block lvl< multi city block lvl< town lvl< mountain lvl< city lvl etc..

Bijuu bomb calcs have put them around island level recently, the wood durability is at 4 gigatons, the MHS speed feat/calc is from his fight in the flashback with Madara, I just tried to find the page for 30 minutes, no luck, I know it's on the OBD somewhere....It is accepted there too, just like the speed calcs for law being mach 13+ are, try to find it yourself if you can, good luck. Anyway mountain level and city level are about the same thing, One Piece has town level characters right now (Admirals, Whitebeard), yeah law did slice the mountain range true but to say he's an island buster? Ridiculous.

Post by othus12 (6,201 posts) See mini bio Level 12

law is at island level because we saw him split an island in half. also i dont think his ability can be blocked without haki. sorry but law and kuma take this

Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@YoungChief said:

Tough one, but Hashirama is not getting blitzed here. His most recent calc/feat puts him at massively hypersonic, the only speed he's gonna have any trouble with is their teleporting, which he is probably used to since his brother invented the flying thunder god technique, also hashirama's wood has been shown to tank bijuu bombs from the kyuubi, island busting power isn't gonna do much to him if anything at all, btw there isn't a one piece character that's an island buster yet, you'd have to stretch things a bit to find even a mountain buster in one piece that isn't named whitebeard or blackbeard, and even with them it's a stretch since the best quake fruit feat is splitting an island

Better to quote you than write an essay on this myself.

@One_Piece_God:

Where did you get this information from? Because I have not seen any 'massively hypersonic' speed feats from Hashirama.

The Bijuu Dama he countered was moving that those speeds.

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=19317&page=8

By effect Madara also gets this, along with Prime Kurama and the Juubi I think.

That does not count for movement speed by the way, this only works for reactions and combat speed. For the record his wood release can move at those speeds to match the fired Bijuu Dama.

I have not seen any island busting feats in Naruto either & why won't an island busting attack not do anything to him.

The Bijuu Dama are calced to release 4 gigatons worth of energy, thats enough to give them island level firepower (Small island level), and that is the low end for them. Naruto can charge his up to around 1 Teraton and the combined Bijuu Dama from Bee and Naruto was around 2.1 Teratons or something in that range.

The "island busting" attacks won't work because their defence no-sells said Bijuu Dama. Kurama covered in Perfect Susanoo took the beat down from Guan Yin AND the forced detonation of fired Bijuu Dama to break down.

With that said "Island Busting" can break through, it just requires far more power than One Piece has ever shown even by its top tiers (Subject to change of course on both fronts, Should Hashirama block some of the Juubi's attacks it just gets worse for One Piece).

Law seems to have cut Punk Hazard in two, if you do not believe that feat shown (as I am a bit sceptical myself), he is certainly a mountain slicer.

The feat is viable, but only in terms of range, not power. His cuts don't deal damage, its how he follows them up that matters. (There was a debate on exactly how his power works to avoid NLF, but its far to long and boring to read all the way through so we can just ingore it in this battle).

With that said following up his cut is next to impossible as Hashirama and Madara can just summon a defence around them and continue their attack. His cuts dont slow down the attack in any way and given the speed advantage they have over them they can counter it before is already to late.

But it won't come to that in the first place. He wont get "Room" open at the standard distance before he is slapped by a wooden hand. The further from Hashirama the less effective "Room" is overall, the closer he is and its easy for him to be completely blitzed into oblivion by Mokuton spam.

@YoungChief:

I just tried to find the page for 30 minutes, no luck, I know it's on the OBD somewhere

It's cool, it's the link above.

As Hax as they are, it won't help them in the slightest.

Post by taichokage (12,486 posts) See mini bio Level 20
Even if Hashirama is hypersonic, Kuma is near light speed and Law is an instant teleporter so I think they can be blitzed. And in destruction they are both island level. Well, Law sliced an island in half and Kuma engulfed a whole island in an explosion. And they are so hax besides. 1 touch from Kuma is a BFR and he can reflect any attack, and Law would have an easy time swapping out biju dama with rocks or Cutting Kurama to pieces.
Post by othus12 (6,201 posts) See mini bio Level 12

there has been no proof that laws ability weakens by the distance. anything inside his room can be manipulated at will. one cut and they will be in half no matter if they are on the whole other side of the island.

Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@othus12 said:

there has been no proof that laws ability weakens by the distance. anything inside his room can be manipulated at will. one cut and they will be in half no matter if they are on the whole other side of the island.

You misunderstand me, it will cause delay if you will.

Is it easier to shoot someone with a .44 from 5 feet away or 500? That is what I mean when I say that.

Also Guan Yin far exceeds the range his Room can reach, how do you plan to structure your argument to let him counter 1000 hands coming down on him at mach 143? Given the speed he can react and move at, Guan Yin will be up in the seconds this battle starts long before Room is activated.

Post by othus12 (6,201 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@Yusuke52: you and i know we cannot calc how long it takes to raise that thing up since it hasnt been animated. on the other hand laws room is pretty much instant. hashirama has to enter sennin mode and do a hand sign. law just has to say "room". no guan yin doesnt exceed the range of room. laws room cut along an entire island

punck hazard >>>>> guan yin (unless you can prove otherwise)

Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@othus12 said:

You and i know we cannot calc how long it takes to raise that thing up since it hasnt been animated. on the other hand laws room is pretty much instant.

Both true. But given the scale of the battle and the threat Madara was, we can safely say it only took him a matter of seconds to summon it. Unless you want to say it took him minutes?

hashirama has to enter sennin mode and do a hand sign.

Or he can just clap his hands and trees will grown right under their feet.

no guan yin doesnt exceed the range of room. laws room cut along an entire island

This time it was my fault.

I ment to say size, his room will not encompass the entire statue leaving a good portion of his body outside of it.

So once again I ask how he plans to counter MHS Mokuton release spam? Given his reactions do not exceed Mach 20, I can't see where you will take this argument.

He has to open his room and cut, Hashirama has to clap his hands or slap the ground. Madara only has to glance at him and he is under a genjutsu. Given they are 7 times faster in this regard I fail to see how Law will somehow beat them to the punch.

Post by taichokage (12,486 posts) See mini bio Level 20
What's up Yusuke52? I just wanted to comment that assuming Madara/Hashirama do have faster reactions, how could they counter Kuma who is indisputably the fastest character of the 4?
Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@taichokage said:

What's up Yusuke52? I just wanted to comment that assuming Madara/Hashirama do have faster reactions, how could they counter Kuma who is indisputably the fastest character of the 4?

Sorry I did not see your post.

Do you mind showing me the calc for his speed then?

Post by taichokage (12,486 posts) See mini bio Level 20
I don't know of any calcs for Kuma, but with his being near light speed according to the manga, and that hypersonic+ characters are unable to react properly, I think it's safe to assume. We have never seen Madara or Hashirama move at speeds of vanishing caliber, nor was there a direct statement regarding their speed. Madara has been blitzed by the Raikage before after all.
Post by Yusuke52 (424 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@taichokage said:

I don't know of any calcs for Kuma, but with his being near light speed according to the manga, and that hypersonic+ characters are unable to react properly, I think it's safe to assume.

So no then. Statements mean nothing without calcs and feats to back it up. Just because they cant react to him does not make him lightspeed.

I can tell you of one calc for kuma which was mach 57, that was thrown out and its still too slow even then.

We have never seen Madara or Hashirama move at speeds of vanishing caliber, nor was there a direct statement regarding their speed. Madara has been blitzed by the Raikage before after all.

They don't need to vanish to show speed (Not everything needs to vanish to show speed) when they have a perfectly viable calc right above that gives a definitive number for their reactions and combat speed.

Blitzed by the Raikage who was under the effects of Onoki's Jutsu to lighten his body while in a cocky Edo Form where he let them hit him just to show off his DNA, Somehow I don't think you can milk this cow for much longer before it runs dry.

While we are at it Haku is lightspeed going by statements, guess they still blitz in that regard too then since everyone is faster than Haku.

Honestly, get me a calc that has him at mach 100 in reactions and combat speed. Then we can argue over who is faster, as of right now they are.

To be honest im not in the mood to go on like this proving my points every single time, again and again. Which is funny because joining this thread I knew exactly that this would happen, I should have just left it but here we are.

Genjutsu followed by Susanoo and Bijuu Dama spam. CoO wont help them in time to counter this tactic not to mention calced speed 7 times greater than their own means Hashirama and Madara will get off the first attack.

And its about as cheap as my argument will get on the matter. Nothing more needs to be said on my part everything is there, if you reply to me just read back through what has been posted because this is all you will get in response from me anyway.

If you dont mind im going to go and be sick, this new medication for my infection is having some nasty side effects on me and I just cant be assed debating here right now while I feel like this.

Good day

@othus12: Oh and I also started Toriko, so far its good.

Post by Jinbeifan1 (3,140 posts) See mini bio Level 14

Law and Kuma win with ease.... is what I would say if I was a One Piece wanker XD they win with HIGH difficulty. I wont downplay either of their powers. The Bijuu Dama is easily dealt with though, not at all a problem for either of these men. One can repel it back at them, the other can switch it around and send it back at them as well. Law cuts down any of the things that Hashirama makes with ease, and he would cut trhough the armor Madara makes. Still not an easy task, but the One Piece Hax Duo wins this one

Post by One_Piece_God (540 posts) See mini bio Level 8

Where do people calculate these things & are they even trustworthy sources compared to the manga showings? What scans show the bijuu dama being that fast?

I need scans to believe that anyone apart from Naruto, Minato, A & Tobirama are near massively hypersonic. I don't believe from any of the showings that Madara or Hashirama are near that speed.

Post by phantomrant (1,273 posts) See mini bio Level 10

I can honestly say that Madara and Hashirama, once again, takes this rather easily. The only threat to them is Law's DF, something that could be dealt with firepower as well as the Rinnegen's hax capabilities. Not to mention that this is Hashirama and Madara's homeground and Hashirama's Mokuton will be very useful here.

And just to point out, even if we're looking at a mach 143 TBB and Hashirama reacted to it,he still wouldn't even be hypersonic (mach 5+) Why? Distance. He reacted to it from a considerable distance, which is akin to your average real-life human dodging a supersonic bullet from hundreds of meters away.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,803 posts) See mini bio Level 15
Bringer-of-Darkness Technique + TBB should grant Madara and Hashirama the win.
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