Kisuke Urahara vs Retsu Unohana

Topic started by WorldEater on April 20, 2013. Last post by DBZ_universe 1 year, 3 months ago.
Post by phantomrant (1,302 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@solesamurai said:

The reasons you provided were all in situations where physical combat was involved. Urahara has the means to keep this a ranged battle which considering he has better kido and equipment he would come out victorious. Unohana would stomp him in combat however since he has like 1 on panel combat feat against Ichigo when he first got his shikai.

But Urahara has to engage in some kind of direct, physical combat because his shield has to appear right in front of him (as Unohana brings down her sword) and his Tsunappe involves direct contact with whatever he's trying to counter. These are all close-ranged Shikai techniques.

The only thing Urahara can do against Unohana is Juzutsunagi or use his 91 Hado. Even if Unohana gets caught in the net, it wouldn't kill her because of her incredible healing Kido. She'll just restore herself every time. And the 91 Hado is only good if Unohana is restrained. There should be no reason as to why Unohana, a master at Kido and at physical combat, should not be able to break the Bakudo used to restrain her like Aizen.

Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@phantomrant said:

@solesamurai said:

The reasons you provided were all in situations where physical combat was involved. Urahara has the means to keep this a ranged battle which considering he has better kido and equipment he would come out victorious. Unohana would stomp him in combat however since he has like 1 on panel combat feat against Ichigo when he first got his shikai.

But Urahara has to engage in some kind of direct, physical combat because his shield has to appear right in front of him (as Unohana brings down her sword) and his Tsunappe involves direct contact with whatever he's trying to counter. These are all close-ranged Shikai techniques.

The only thing Urahara can do against Unohana is Juzutsunagi or use his 91 Hado. Even if Unohana gets caught in the net, it wouldn't kill her because of her incredible healing Kido. She'll just restore herself every time. And the 91 Hado is only good if Unohana is restrained. There should be no reason as to why Unohana, a master at Kido and at physical combat, should not be able to break the Bakudo used to restrain her like Aizen.

Urahara could use Shibari, Benihime as a way of restraining unohana. He doesn't have to detonate it. And you can't say Unohana would break it without feats, She has absolutely 0 feats to back her being able to get out of the bakudo he used on Aizen. Merely stating she can isn't enough to prove it.

Post by phantomrant (1,302 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@solesamurai said:

Urahara could use Shibari, Benihime as a way of restraining unohana. He doesn't have to detonate it. And you can't say Unohana would break it without feats, She has absolutely 0 feats to back her being able to get out of the bakudo he used on Aizen. Merely stating she can isn't enough to prove it.

That's not for restraining. That's just a net that sets up for the destructive attack: Juzutsunagi. Unohana will casually slice it apart if he doesn't detonate it.

Breaking Bakudo requires only physical strength. I'd put Unohana's strength to be at least on Aizen's level. Supported by the fact that she completely overpowered Kenpachi and cutted him apart dozens of times over. Not to mention that Kenpachi is getting stronger and stronger every time she revives him and she's getting weaker and weaker as she uses up her reiryoku. What more do you need?

Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@phantomrant said:

@solesamurai said:

Urahara could use Shibari, Benihime as a way of restraining unohana. He doesn't have to detonate it. And you can't say Unohana would break it without feats, She has absolutely 0 feats to back her being able to get out of the bakudo he used on Aizen. Merely stating she can isn't enough to prove it.

That's not for restraining. That's just a net that sets up for the destructive attack: Juzutsunagi. Unohana will casually slice it apart if he doesn't detonate it.

Breaking Bakudo requires only physical strength. I'd put Unohana's strength to be at least on Aizen's level. Supported by the fact that she completely overpowered Kenpachi and cutted him apart dozens of times over. Not to mention that Kenpachi is getting stronger and stronger every time she revives him and she's getting weaker and weaker as she uses up her reiryoku. What more do you need?

Shibari Benihime, does restrain, that how it sets up for the detonation and he doesn't have to detonate it. Breaking bakudo only requires physical strength? Where are you getting this from? the most physically imposing character in the bleach verse up to this point is most likely Yammy and Urahara could bind him with a level 30-40 bakudo with no incantation until he releases and gets pissed off. You need immense reiatsu to break bakudo. She's on Aizens level? Since when? She's strong no doubt, but to put her on Aizens level is a definite over estimation of what she's shown. She's all hype with no feats, her defeating a depowered Kenpachi multiple times does not in anyway support her being anywhere near Aizens level. The whole point of that fight was to make kenpachi stronger, Unohana went in knowing she would die, and accepted it. That's what happens when you continuously heal the person you defeated with no breaks and continue fighting them, they get stronger, you get weaker. She would obviously be fatigued, by the end of their fight.

I need proof that she can beat urahara without using hype and assumptions. Based off Feats urahara would win, featwise he's faster, better prepared(even without prep), better at kido, a better battle tactician, and smarter(don't think unohana was ever intended to be more intelligent than him anyway). the only thing she has on him is swordsmanship, that's it. He definitely wins on paper due to feats.

Post by katmic (306 posts) See mini bio Level 10

I keep seeing the statement 'without prep' used a lot here to put forward an argument where Unohana might defeat Urahara. Someone of Urahara's calibre and intelligence wouldn't be a situation where he isn't prepared for anything, even an attack from unohana. Besides, what are the chances that Urahara isn't aware of Unohana's capabilities as the first kenpachi including her bankai. I don't see how unohana would defeat urahara. sure she beat zaraki a hundred or so times, but zaraki is all brute force and strength. It isn't the same as defeating someone as shrews and canning as Urahara. And there is no way Unohana is as strong as Aizen.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,509 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@katmic: Correct! Urahara was able to do some damage on Aizen and also he trains with Yoruichi. Urahara has fire power advantage as well. he can also use multiple high level kido and hado at once. He also carries gigais.

We have never seen the Bankai of Urahara and if I recall he did told Ichigo that his Bankai is not for training..?

Post by phantomrant (1,302 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@solesamurai said:

Shibari Benihime, does restrain, that how it sets up for the detonation and he doesn't have to detonate it.

How can it restrain someone when it's a net? It's not like the net is pinned down to the ground.

Breaking bakudo only requires physical strength? Where are you getting this from?

The fact that Aizen was able to break the triple Bakudo Urahara cast on him by wrestling out of it.

the most physically imposing character in the bleach verse up to this point is most likely Yammy and Urahara could bind him with a level 30-40 bakudo with no incantation until he releases and gets pissed off.

You're talking about base Yammy, who's not the most physically imposing character in bleach and no one near the most physically strongest character in the series.

You need immense reiatsu to break bakudo. She's on Aizens level? Since when? She's strong no doubt, but to put her on Aizens level is a definite over estimation of what she's shown. She's all hype with no feats, her defeating a depowered Kenpachi multiple times does not in anyway support her being anywhere near Aizens level.

Do you even realize how strong Kenpachi is by the time she was fighting him? We're not looking at a Nnoitra-level guy here like some ppl thought before it was revealed that Kenpachi had subconscious shackles on him. By the time Unohana first killed him, we're looking at someone who's close to being as strong as Royd Llyod, in other words, the guy who can go toe-to-toe with a pissed-off Shikai Yamamoto and who took on Bankai Yamamoto. Same Royd Llyod who's very close to being as strong as base Aizen. Proven by the fact that he's always had massive power-ups when he relishes in fighting an opponent. His defeat by Shikai Ichigo boosted him all the way up to be near that of R1 Nnoitra-level. And his defeat of Nnoitra boosted him up to well within the top 4 Espada rankings, supported by the fact that he enjoyed his fight with Nnoitra as much as he did with Ichigo, and was able to roflstomp the Espada with the highest reiatsu. Getting stomped by Royd actually brought him near his level since it made it easier for Kenpachi to unshackle himself.

This is the same Kenpachi that Unohana casually stomped over and over, while Kenpachi keeps on getting stronger from his unshackling. Does this not put base Unohana roughly equal to base Aizen? Furthermore, she was able to speedblitz Kenpachi who was much faster than his HM arc self. This puts Unohana's (I'm guessing Shunpo) speed at least on Starrk's Sonido speed. The only thing she lacked, from what we can tell or infer, is durability feats, which is made up by her phenomenol endurance, stamina, and Kaido.

I need proof that she can beat urahara without using hype and assumptions.

This isn't hype or assumptions. This is whether you read Bleach or not, and whether you understand Kenpachi's growth rate or not.

Based off Feats urahara would win, featwise he's faster, better prepared(even without prep), better at kido, a better battle tactician, and smarter(don't think unohana was ever intended to be more intelligent than him anyway). the only thing she has on him is swordsmanship, that's it. He definitely wins on paper due to feats.

1. He is faster.

2. He sure is better at Kido, but that doesn't mean he's able to kill her with it.

3. Sure, but this is not a battle of tactics.

4. Nor is a battle of wits and smarts.

5. Tell me what Urahara can dish on her that she can't regenerate from. You saw how she got reduced to a skeleton, and then was able to heal herself completely in the blink of an eye. She saw her immense cutting/striking power. You can tell that she has vastly superior reiatsu. You saw her cunning and trickery in close-quarters combat. What does Urahara have that Unohana can't deal with?

Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@phantomrant said:

@solesamurai said:

Shibari Benihime, does restrain, that how it sets up for the detonation and he doesn't have to detonate it.

How can it restrain someone when it's a net? It's not like the net is pinned down to the ground.

Breaking bakudo only requires physical strength? Where are you getting this from?

The fact that Aizen was able to break the triple Bakudo Urahara cast on him by wrestling out of it.

the most physically imposing character in the bleach verse up to this point is most likely Yammy and Urahara could bind him with a level 30-40 bakudo with no incantation until he releases and gets pissed off.

You're talking about base Yammy, who's not the most physically imposing character in bleach and no one near the most physically strongest character in the series.

You need immense reiatsu to break bakudo. She's on Aizens level? Since when? She's strong no doubt, but to put her on Aizens level is a definite over estimation of what she's shown. She's all hype with no feats, her defeating a depowered Kenpachi multiple times does not in anyway support her being anywhere near Aizens level.

Do you even realize how strong Kenpachi is by the time she was fighting him? We're not looking at a Nnoitra-level guy here like some ppl thought before it was revealed that Kenpachi had subconscious shackles on him. By the time Unohana first killed him, we're looking at someone who's close to being as strong as Royd Llyod, in other words, the guy who can go toe-to-toe with a pissed-off Shikai Yamamoto and who took on Bankai Yamamoto. Same Royd Llyod who's very close to being as strong as base Aizen. Proven by the fact that he's always had massive power-ups when he relishes in fighting an opponent. His defeat by Shikai Ichigo boosted him all the way up to be near that of R1 Nnoitra-level. And his defeat of Nnoitra boosted him up to well within the top 4 Espada rankings, supported by the fact that he enjoyed his fight with Nnoitra as much as he did with Ichigo, and was able to roflstomp the Espada with the highest reiatsu. Getting stomped by Royd actually brought him near his level since it made it easier for Kenpachi to unshackle himself.

This is the same Kenpachi that Unohana casually stomped over and over, while Kenpachi keeps on getting stronger from his unshackling. Does this not put base Unohana roughly equal to base Aizen? Furthermore, she was able to speedblitz Kenpachi who was much faster than his HM arc self. This puts Unohana's (I'm guessing Shunpo) speed at least on Starrk's Sonido speed. The only thing she lacked, from what we can tell or infer, is durability feats, which is made up by her phenomenol endurance, stamina, and Kaido.

I need proof that she can beat urahara without using hype and assumptions.

This isn't hype or assumptions. This is whether you read Bleach or not, and whether you understand Kenpachi's growth rate or not.

Based off Feats urahara would win, featwise he's faster, better prepared(even without prep), better at kido, a better battle tactician, and smarter(don't think unohana was ever intended to be more intelligent than him anyway). the only thing she has on him is swordsmanship, that's it. He definitely wins on paper due to feats.

1. He is faster.

2. He sure is better at Kido, but that doesn't mean he's able to kill her with it.

3. Sure, but this is not a battle of tactics.

4. Nor is a battle of wits and smarts.

5. Tell me what Urahara can dish on her that she can't regenerate from. You saw how she got reduced to a skeleton, and then was able to heal herself completely in the blink of an eye. She saw her immense cutting/striking power. You can tell that she has vastly superior reiatsu. You saw her cunning and trickery in close-quarters combat. What does Urahara have that Unohana can't deal with?

How about you tell me how she beats him when she has only 1 thing going for her and that's the regeneration? She doesn't have the feats dude. Doesn't matter if this is a battle of tactics or not, this is a battle and urahara being a 5th dimensional thinker will think tactically as he always does. Doesn't matter if this is a battle of wits, Like I said Uarahara being a 5th dimensional thinker will think cleverly as he always does. She is not Aizen i don't know why people keep trying to put her on his level, she isn't even close. Not to mention Aizen also has immense reiatsu, so the bakudo not working on him could very well be due to that.

As far as this video shows, yes it does bind to whatever it can touch not just ground, Aizen was in a standing position so that indicates that it doesn't press them onto the ground, just hold them in place.

Urahara can bind her with shibari long enough to use the bakudo he used on Aizen to seal him after he fought Ichigo. That's a way to defeat her, OP doesn't state she needs to be killed, or KO. This will be a win by incapacitating means for Urahara. Now explain to me what she can do to Urahara that he can't avoid all together or use equipment to escape from?

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@solesamurai: She can regenerate from a skeleton instantaneous what can urahara do to damage her with an explosion or with shackles? Stab her and let her revive herself? If she goes bankai he will reduce to nothing. She kept up with a kenpachi that was going all out(with the shackles on even though they have been there since the beginning of the series). She was actually able to one shot someone who could take some serious beatings like being stabbed and continue fighting.

how does urahara get passed her regeneration? He can't keep this fight long distance because he doesn't have the means to defeat her from so far without her regenerating. Also you don't have to be a genius to beat a genius. This is not chess or some intricate system it is a battle.

Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@TheNeutralOne said:

@solesamurai: She can regenerate from a skeleton instantaneous what can urahara do to damage her with an explosion or with shackles? Stab her and let her revive herself? If she goes bankai he will reduce to nothing. She kept up with a kenpachi that was going all out(with the shackles on even though they have been there since the beginning of the series). She was actually able to one shot someone who could take some serious beatings like being stabbed and continue fighting.

how does urahara get passed her regeneration? He can't keep this fight long distance because he doesn't have the means to defeat her from so far without her regenerating. Also you don't have to be a genius to beat a genius. This is not chess or some intricate system it is a battle.

You guys keep talking about her regeneration like you ignoring what i'm saying. LISTEN CLOSELY NOW THINGS MIGHT A LITTLE BIT COMPLICATED. He uses Shibari Benihime on her, still with me? He then instead of detonating it, uses the same bakudo he used on Aizen, of course it will probably only work when she is weak enough for it to dominate her soul like it did Aizen, so he gradually steer clear of her, and tire/weaken her various Kido, equipment and abilities he has, She isn't catching him anytime soon, featwise he is much much much faster than her. This will be a long drawn out battle with Urahara having successfully bound her. Can unohana defeat urahara? Definitely, can she take majority? No, without feats she is all hype, beating a weakened Kenpachi multiple times isn't impressive, ichigo did that without a bankai.

EDIT: And she can't regenerate She uses healing kido(she just learned how to use it in the midst of battle as well), kenpachi wouldn't have been able to inflict a fatal wound on her if she could regenerate, stop making up powers to give her, the edge, she's all hype with no feats.

Post by phantomrant (1,302 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@solesamurai said:

How about you tell me how she beats him when she has only 1 thing going for her and that's the regeneration?

How does she beat him? In the most direct way possible. Stab him with her Zanpakuto until he dies. Urahara lacks the stamina and durability feats to maintain a battle with Unohana. He'll get worn out very quickly. Unohana can cut him apart, strangle him with her bare hands, or use her Bankai on him.

Doesn't matter if this is a battle of tactics or not, this is a battle and urahara being a 5th dimensional thinker will think tactically as he always does.

Which is useless without prep. Without prep, the only thing he can rely on are gigai tricks and Kido chains; tactics that I've repeatedly debunked as useless and ineffective against Unohana.

She is not Aizen i don't know why people keep trying to put her on his level, she isn't even close. Not to mention Aizen also has immense reiatsu, so the bakudo not working on him could very well be due to that.

I just described, in specific detail and explanation, how Unohana is easily on par with Aizen. Either counter my entire paragraph on it or accept the fact that Unohana is on the same level as Aizen. To think that she isn't even nearly as strong as him is outright ignoring her very impressive feats and status as the First Kenpachi. She's most definitely the strongest out of the first generation of the Gotei 13, which is the strongest generation of captains, next to Genryuusai. She's a senior captain who's much, much stronger than the current Captain-Commander.

I also recall Ichigo breaking out of the bakudo Rukia cast on him with just his strength.

As far as this video shows, yes it does bind to whatever it can touch not just ground, Aizen was in a standing position so that indicates that it doesn't press them onto the ground, just hold them in place.

Yeah, hold them in place IF they're just standing there doing nothing like Aizen did. Aizen who btw was taking the fight effortlessly so of course he'd just sit back (as he's done previous times in the fight).

Urahara can bind her with shibari long enough

Nope. And even if he can, Unohana cuts the net apart.

This will be a win by incapacitating means for Urahara.

Except it's not incapacitation as Unohana will break out of it.

Now explain to me what she can do to Urahara that he can't avoid all together or use equipment to escape from?

There's no need for me to explain how she beats him any further. Every way that Unohana can slaughter Urahara I've listed multiple times.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,509 posts) See mini bio Level 17

Urahara wins because he is a better fighter than Retsu. He also has kido in advantage and sneaky attacks as well as how he used to be an assassin in Squad 2.

Retsu is powerful but Urahara is better.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@solesamurai: Where is this weakened kenpachi you speak of? When they say he was weak it means that he had limited his potential subconsciously from the beginning(not just that fight from their first fight). Also she might as well have regeneration since she can come back from a skeleton in a single panel in the midst of battle.

Also where are these speed feats for urahara that places him so many leagues above unohana in your eyes? He isn't even close to blitzing so I don't see why speed is so important here. She was able to one shot kenpachi multiple times without him even being able to react some of the times. Which obviously means her speed is at the very least decent. I don't see what is stopping unohana's bankai from killing urahara or destroying anything he throws at her.

In case you have forgotten she is just as proficient with hado as urahara. She doesn't need to do incantations for 80s levels. I don't know where you got the impression unohana would just sit there and be attacked by a net or any long range attack for that matter. She could simply block until urahara decides that his efforts are futile and walks to his death that is unohana's bankai and superior healing(since you don't like the word regeneration even though that is what self healing at that level is called).

Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@TheNeutralOne said:

@solesamurai: Where is this weakened kenpachi you speak of? When they say he was weak it means that he had limited his potential subconsciously from the beginning(not just that fight from their first fight). Also she might as well have regeneration since she can come back from a skeleton in a single panel in the midst of battle.

Also where are these speed feats for urahara that places him so many leagues above unohana in your eyes? He isn't even close to blitzing so I don't see why speed is so important here. She was able to one shot kenpachi multiple times without him even being able to react some of the times. Which obviously means her speed is at the very least decent. I don't see what is stopping unohana's bankai from killing urahara or destroying anything he throws at her.

In case you have forgotten she is just as proficient with hado as urahara. She doesn't need to do incantations for 80s levels. I don't know where you got the impression unohana would just sit there and be attacked by a net or any long range attack for that matter. She could simply block until urahara decides that his efforts are futile and walks to his death that is unohana's bankai and superior healing(since you don't like the word regeneration even though that is what self healing at that level is called).

That's Uncanon, She doesn't have any On panel feats to suggest she is anywhere near Urahara's level kido wise, not to mention it's out of character for her to even think of using battle ready kido, as evident in her fight with kenpachi, I meant kenpachi was weakened by his potential being limited, that's exactly what i meant, her beating isn't very impressive, considering that, She also has no canon feats. Urahara makes shibari appear over the target, if they move, he simply moves it himself. he is faster than her, And on panel battles suggest she's a pretty stationary fighter, as for the bakudo, he usually conceals it with a lower level bakudo anyway, so that's no problem. Self healing and Regeneration are 2 different things, her regenerating suggest she has natural components in her body that automatically heal for her, her healing herself with kido is her taking medical procedures on her own body.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,509 posts) See mini bio Level 17

If we use non canon feats, then Urahara has the right to use movie 3 feats and still win cause those feats>Retsu's non canon feats.

Post by TheNeutralOne (1,016 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@solesamurai:

So you are telling me you believe urahara can beat the kenpachi we all know without his eyepatch without prep? Because his potential was limited from the beginning of the series lol. That is what was stated after all. That means all of his feats thus far are simply child's play compared to what he is actually capable of. Unohana was one shotting and reviving him to release his potential because every time he gets close to death it would release another shackle. She defeated and revived him even after releasing his shackles that nobody else was capable of unlocking. Unohana stated that every fight kenpachi has had he either barely won or barely lost simply because he placed limits on himself to ensure he could fight someone another day, not because they were strong but because he shackled himself that way. The very same group of quincy that flew in and took over soul society were being defeated by this very same "weakened" kenpachi with relative ease other than juha bach. So I don't get what referencing to him being "weakened" actually establishes here.

I strongly implore you to read chapters 523-526 of bleach again. There are many last minute feats for unohana provided. The fact that kenpachi who was decimating the quincy that were babyshaking everyone in soul society could not react to her attacks until being killed and revived a few times to release more of his old power. There was an instance in which unohana knocked kenpachi's sword out of his hand and closed the gap between them in a single panel. There is also when kenpachi got sliced on the face so fast the unohana did not appear until the next panel after the slice had occurred. Unohana has at the very least basic captain level speed. In other words decent. It isn't as though urahara is so fast that he could blitz her or bring anything dangerous to the table by doing so. In one of her only fights she was shown to use bankai when the opponent became noticeably dangerous and caused everything including herself to melt away. What is to stop her from melting away the net closing the distance between them knocking away urahara's blade and stabbing him in the throat. Everything except the net part was done in one panel mid combat.

Post by othus12 (6,360 posts) See mini bio Level 12

unohana would murder kisuke easily.

Post by solesamurai (1,250 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@TheNeutralOne said:

@solesamurai:

So you are telling me you believe urahara can beat the kenpachi we all know without his eyepatch without prep? Because his potential was limited from the beginning of the series lol. That is what was stated after all. That means all of his feats thus far are simply child's play compared to what he is actually capable of. Unohana was one shotting and reviving him to release his potential because every time he gets close to death it would release another shackle. She defeated and revived him even after releasing his shackles that nobody else was capable of unlocking. Unohana stated that every fight kenpachi has had he either barely won or barely lost simply because he placed limits on himself to ensure he could fight someone another day, not because they were strong but because he shackled himself that way. The very same group of quincy that flew in and took over soul society were being defeated by this very same "weakened" kenpachi with relative ease other than juha bach. So I don't get what referencing to him being "weakened" actually establishes here.

I strongly implore you to read chapters 523-526 of bleach again. There are many last minute feats for unohana provided. The fact that kenpachi who was decimating the quincy that were babyshaking everyone in soul society could not react to her attacks until being killed and revived a few times to release more of his old power. There was an instance in which unohana knocked kenpachi's sword out of his hand and closed the gap between them in a single panel. There is also when kenpachi got sliced on the face so fast the unohana did not appear until the next panel after the slice had occurred. Unohana has at the very least basic captain level speed. In other words decent. It isn't as though urahara is so fast that he could blitz her or bring anything dangerous to the table by doing so. In one of her only fights she was shown to use bankai when the opponent became noticeably dangerous and caused everything including herself to melt away. What is to stop her from melting away the net closing the distance between them knocking away urahara's blade and stabbing him in the throat. Everything except the net part was done in one panel mid combat.

UNOHANA IS ONLY ABLE TO OUTFIGHT KISUKE NOT OUTPACE HIM NOT OUTTHINK HIM NOR IS SHE ABLE TO OUT FIGHT HIM KIDO WISE, SHE ONLY HAS FEATS FOR STRICTLY HAND TO HAND FIGHTING(SWORDS). WITHOUT FEATS SHE LOSES, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

PLEASE EXCUSE THE CAPS MY KEYBOARD WON'T TURN IT OFF.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,509 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@othus12: No she wouldn't IMO.

Post by othus12 (6,360 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@DBZ_universe: urahara with prep>aizen

urahara without prep= your average captain level shinigami

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