Kid Buu vs Hal Jordan

Topic started by deathmonger on Jan. 11, 2012. Last post by katanalauncher 8 months, 2 weeks ago.
Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@DBZ_universe: Teleporting inside organs won't be happening. Buu has never shown such sophistication with teleportation. If teleporting in and out of others was as simple as most are claiming, wouldn't simply IT'ing out of Buu been a walk in the park for Goku? Yet he did not. Also, let's consider that Buu can actually teleport inside people as you say, it would still do him no good. Buu is far too unintelligent to actually try to teleport inside an opponent's organs even if he could. A character can possess an ability but if he's too retarded to use it effectively then it doesn't matter. Take Marvel's Electro as an example. He could potentially rival Magneto in power if he was smarter but he's too dumb and cannot use his true potential. The same applies for Buu. Let's say he could teleport in and out of others and even their organs, Kid Buu who can't even speak is smart enough to know what organs are? Let alone teleport into them? Yeah right.

You don't require physical hits when your opponent is capable generating energy blasts that can even harm Anti-Monitor. Kid Buu can be vaporized which would leave nothing to regenerate from. And you said that Hal usually resorts to physical hits in battles, well he is bloodlusted here and there are no morals, nothing is stopping him from projecting massive energy that will erase Kid Buu. Kid Buu's clones won't really distract a superhero who's seen nearly everything people think is impossible. Plus, the clones are no trouble if even Vegeta managed to easily destroy them. Hal would not have a problem dispatching the clones. Buu is also dealing with an opponent who is better versed in matter reconstruction with better feats in the field (I can post scans if requested). Kid Buu's durability is not impressive at all so he relies entirely on his regeneration so this is not a good thing against opponents who can harm Anti-Monitor and Superman with energy blasts. While Hal on the other hand managed to protect himself from a blank point range supernova with one of his barriers. Kid Buu won't be penetrating that.

ND

Post by DBZ_universe (15,724 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@Phoenix_Wright: jajaja take it easy my sir... but good job on giving me some true logic... but you are total right. for me this is a total hard one knnowing what the two can do.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,724 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@Newdeath: true Kid buu isn't the smartest beig ever he is stupid like you said and i doubt he will think about the IT inside th organs... possibly all kid buu is gonna do is go on a rampage and start blasting and destroying everything... even tho Hal could easily protect him self...

Post by Phoenix_Wright (124 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@DBZ_universe: Haha thanks, hope I didn't seem like a jerk or anything, got a little too into character there. But you did bring up a good point about the "possibilities" of what Buu can do and provided some reasons too. This battle is still up for debate, besides, if Hitsusatsu11 were here he would no doubt put my argument to shame haha.

Post by DBZ_universe (15,724 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@Phoenix_Wright: yeah Hitsusatsu11 is pretty hard to debate agaisnt thats why I never debate against him cuz he will put me into shame as well... but he is an awesome dude.

Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@DBZ_universe: Now if Kid Buu was smart, the outcome would be different :P

ND

Post by DBZ_universe (15,724 posts) See mini bio Level 17

@Newdeath: yes true... it would come out different... unless Kid Buu absorbs Piccolo and just uses his knowladge... that would make this battle even more interested

Post by Jeust (44 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@taichokage said:

Well, no posts so far. I'll start. Well Hal's powers are tremendously versatile but Buu is virtually unkillable. Buu has great destructive power but Hal could probably handle them himself. Buu also can transmute matter but once again Hal's barrier should prevent him from being affected. They can both survive in space, fly, Buu can teleport and Hal can open portals, and so on. They have a counter for virtually everything that one another has. I see this as a long stalemate. The only realistic way I could see this ending is Buu possibly being able to override Hal's barriers with a dimensional scream which technically Kid Buu didn't demonstrate.

Kid Buu could still turn Hal into a cookie, or spray his goo over him, and absorb him, interdimensionally speaking.

Post by ClaudXP (11 posts) See mini bio Level 9

I can't exactly remember...but doesn't buu have an amazing ability to adapt to everyones fighting style? And he learned kamahama, but that could of been from absorbing someone. Can't remember.

Post by Newdeath (18,555 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@Jeust: He's not turning Hal into a cookie. Hal is a better matter manipulator than Buu anyway. This is a bloodlusted Hal, there won't be any time for Buu to absorb anything. He'll be too busy trying to regenerate from powerful energy blasts that can harm Anti-Monitor and ward off matter manipulation that can reconstruct entire solar systems. Buu's attacks won't do anything against barriers that endured supernova explosions at blank point range.

@ClaudXP: Unfortunately Hal doesn't use a specialized fighting style. He simply uses his powers in a versatile manner. Buu copied the kamehameha yes but the kamehameha is a technique. Buu isn't capable of copying super-powers.

ND

Post by MisterShin (2,125 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@Phoenix_Wright said:

@MisterShin: I spy....a contradiction! You say that Buu should be able to teleport inside of someone, correct? Well then quite frankly, I find that hard to believe! These are assumptions, we see the things Buu can do but teleporting inside someone is not one of them. For example if he could do that, why would he need to absorb people the way he did? Why not just take them over from the inside? Also although similar in concept, I don't think teleporting inside buildings and teleporting inside a manifested shield are the same, I mean I have never seen a DBZ character teleport inside another fighter's ki shield so teleporting inside Hal's barrier seems a bit far fetched... I mean Goku and Vegeta couldn't simply teleport out of Buu when they were absorbed, not only that but we know there is a limit, while Goku can teleport to places like Kinga Kia's planet, I don't know if they can teleport in and out of places like the time chamber. I will say this though, it is "possible" that Buu could teleport inside of energy shields but I have not seen anyone in DBZ do anything like that.

1:  Buu only absorbed opponents for two reasons. 
1.1: If the opponent were stronger than him. 
1.2: To gain abilities and be stronger than his opponent. 
 
2: Teleporting into a shield is the same as teleporting into a building. (In the following scenario) 
If the person does not have feats suggesting that they can block teleporters from entering their shields, then they CAN. 
(However a character like Magneto has feats of blocking teleporters from entering his shields, so therefore teleports CANNOT) 
 
3: Buu's Teleport is different from Goku's. 
Buu uses Kaioshin version, which features no limits on distance, users can travel to any location in the universe. It also does not require Ki Sensing.  
 
4: I originally envisioned buu using a small piece of his body and teleporting it into Hal's Body. For internal destruction. 
5: Description of Kai Kai 
Source:  http://www.kanzentai.com/trans-daiz07.php?m=04&id=attack_j-l#kai-kai 
An ability where it is possible to instantly move anywhere in the entire universe. It is also possible to not just transport the user, but other people as well. Kibito used this technique to move between planets. In order to rescue Goku and the others from the Earth-destroying attack fired by Majin Buu (pure), Kaioshin used this technique to move from the Kaioshins' planet to Earth and back again. (Daizenshuu 4, p.55)  
 
6: Although it was never shown, it is entirely possible for Buu to teleport parts of his body to other locations. Considering the parts can survive independent from one another.
Post by Phoenix_Wright (124 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@MisterShin:

I find something odd about what you said.... Yes those are Buu's reason's for absorbing people, kinda like Cell's reasons, basically to get stronger. Don't know what that has to do with anything though. And I suppose by some manner of speaking it would seem that teleporting into a shield is the same as a building, however when that said shield is specifically made to keep things out, and even characters like the Flash cannot phase through it, and it also blocks mental attacks, I don't see how showing Buu making copies of himself or Goku teleporting into a building means anything. All we have are theories, I'll admit from both sides since I don't have a scan of Hal specifically blocking teleporting, however there is strong evidence he can, for one, Green Lanterns themselves are capable of teleportation. And two, it is well known that the abilities of a Lantern are only limited by their imagination, so Hal can block teleporters I would say, now the power of the ring depends on the Lantern using it (So he can block a teleporter but if Buu used a strong enough attack that exceeded Hal's own power, it would break right through his shield)

Still, Goku and Vegito were not able to teleport, we saw Super Buu ONLY go into someone and absorb them by either morphing into goo and flying into their mouths (He did the same to Vegito and it failed) and having a piece of himself grab on to a person and absorb them. Never teleporting inside someone to do that nor to blow them up. And despite what that may say, we must have some proof. The burden of proof falls on the one making the accusation.

Post by rpgr (45 posts) See mini bio Level 3

@Phoenix_Wright: Hal "keeping up with Barry" is PIS, pure and simple. PIS is not allowed, you can take it to the comic boards and everyone would laugh at you saying Hal is Light Speed reflex. Also, there is a difference in predictive area of effect attacks, doesn't matter if I'm not moving and your moving at 1000 miles per hour if my attack radius is 1000 miles radius, how do you think Batman tags Barry too (although that would be considered PIS as well, as I argued on other boards, if you accept one characters PIS, you have to accept Batman's). As for "kicking through a few mountains" that's fighting even level people. Just like I can pick up a rock and hurl it no problem, I'd have a much harder time picking up something dense and/or resistant, like a jet fueled mini-rocket already lit, even if it had the same weight. Your argument holds no weight in terms of "limiting feat". What you posted only showed what Hal "would do" it's not like he is actually capable. Also Barry, is much faster now than your old scans. He's way beyond light speed now and Hal specifically talks about being Light Speed only in those scans so it is both out dated and useless as "feat" guidance. Hal's travel speed is much more than light speed but his battle speed is much less than WW who is stated in the canon to be at max half light speed in terms of movement. WW has the fastest reaction time/fight speed in DC bar none (beyond even Barry's in some cases).

I doubt Buu would teleport into a person, he just lacks that type of sophistication with that power. What is most likely to happen is that Buu will just random spazz out destroying solar systems by blasting the sun, Hals' going to be too busy trying to keep things together that he's going to deplete the power ring and become dead. Also, just because we don't have DBZ ppl fight Anti-monitor doesn't mean they can't hurt him. I'll agree anti wins the fight vs. DBZ but with ki enhancement, DBZ is on even terms with Supes and Supes is capable of busting through Hal's barriers, as is WW whom is a lot less than DBZ in terms of power and skill.

I'll reiterate what I've said on the comic boards. With just a single ring, GL loses, add in the multi-ring feats of Kyle or the emotional Avatars and Lanters win.

Post by Phoenix_Wright (124 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Hal "keeping up with Barry" is PIS, pure and simple. PIS is not allowed, you can take it to the comic boards and everyone would laugh at you saying Hal is Light Speed reflex.

Well, I'm not one to care if people laugh at me, heck, i'd laugh with them if such a claim was funny enough (I mean saying someone like Hulk or the Thing was that fast, but Hal at least has some reason behind that assumption.) Of course PIS is not allowed, however with any sort of evidence we are allowed to discuss it's credibility, just because you say it's PIS, CIS ect. Doesn't mean that everyone will automatically see it. You gotta do better than simply say it is PIS, be as rude as you want to as long as you get your point across I guess.

Also, there is a difference in predictive area of effect attacks, doesn't matter if I'm not moving and your moving at 1000 miles per hour if my attack radius is 1000 miles radius, how do you think Batman tags Barry too (although that would be considered PIS as well, as I argued on other boards, if you accept one characters PIS, you have to accept Batman's).

That's true, not sure what that has to do with anything though, think you can clarify? I'm pretty sure that in my argument I didn't say anything about Hal's attack having a huge radius, nor did any of the scans indicate that. Batman's feats are pretty much all crazy and unreasonable to the point of PIS, save fighting skills. But at this point it's almost valid with how much he does it. Besides Batman has tagged almost every speedster in DC by now... And I dunno about that, it's mainly that whole prep time stuff that people usually pull.

As for "kicking through a few mountains" that's fighting even level people. Just like I can pick up a rock and hurl it no problem, I'd have a much harder time picking up something dense and/or resistant, like a jet fueled mini-rocket already lit, even if it had the same weight. Your argument holds no weight in terms of "limiting feat".

"Fighting even level"? Well that was the best feat of physical strength next to lifting 40 tons. And that was a pretty good comparison except, well, you're not a saiyan... nor a DBZ character. But your counter argument still holds a lot of weight, so what do you think the best strength feat is? Since it is apparent that you don't think the one we claimed to be was the best one.

What you posted only showed what Hal "would do" it's not like he is actually capable. Also Barry, is much faster now than your old scans. He's way beyond light speed now and Hal specifically talks about being Light Speed only in those scans so it is both out dated and useless as "feat" guidance.

Ummm, yeah. The scan showed him doing something so I thought it would be valid, it was done multiple times, yes he is much faster of course, with or without speedforce, but that was not the point of the scan. And he has talked about being light speed in other scans too actually. However, I wouldn't say the scan is useless in that sense, it would only be useless if I tried proving Flash was only light speed or Hal was as fast as the Flash, but the point of that was to show Hal can move at light speed WHILE using the power of his ring.

Hal's travel speed is much more than light speed but his battle speed is much less than WW who is stated in the canon to be at max half light speed in terms of movement. WW has the fastest reaction time/fight speed in DC bar none (beyond even Barry's in some cases).

That's cool I guess. But despite what a book may say if feats prove otherwise then I dunno. However I wont deny WW being faster than Hal, but may I get a scan of the comparison for WW and Hal and how she has the fastest reaction time? It just may be handy, after all in debates, evidence and valid reasoning is key.

I doubt Buu would teleport into a person, he just lacks that type of sophistication with that power. What is most likely to happen is that Buu will just random spazz out destroying solar systems by blasting the sun, Hals' going to be too busy trying to keep things together that he's going to deplete the power ring and become dead.

Or while Buu is "Going crazy" Hal can just manipulate his structure and contain him or simply BFR, I mean Buu Had to charge up a simple planet busting attack in which Goku had enough time to save Vegeta, Mr. Satan, and the dog. So I think Hal can manage taking out Buu before he blows up the sun. And I guess when you put them into character and play it out like that, something along those lines would happen, but I thought this fight was bloodlusted?

Also, just because we don't have DBZ ppl fight Anti-monitor doesn't mean they can't hurt him. I'll agree anti wins the fight vs. DBZ but with ki enhancement, DBZ is on even terms with Supes and Supes is capable of busting through Hal's barriers, as is WW whom is a lot less than DBZ in terms of power and skill.

Proof of them being on terms with Superman? Are we talking current, or flying through planets and other crazy feats of power? And I never doubted Buu could not break through the barrier, however, before that happens Hal could have been done whatever he wanted by that point (Since I saw no real evidence of Buu's physical strength, without power scaling of course.

I'll reiterate what I've said on the comic boards. With just a single ring, GL loses, add in the multi-ring feats of Kyle or the emotional Avatars and Lanters win.

I do not agree, not yet anyway. With a single ring he has a chance, just not as easy if he were to have multiple rings. I am not saying who wins or who loses as of yet, I am just trying to get all the feats and compare them and then make my decision, so far all I heard for Buu's side is that hall will do something causing him to lose ring power and he will lose, when the fight can be ended quickly by both sides, so if Buu is going to win it wont be due to some power outage.

Post by MisterShin (2,125 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@Phoenix_Wright:  
Yes what i am saying is a theory. An in-character Buu would not think to do this method. 
 


"Fighting even level"? Well that was the best feat of physical strength next to lifting 40 tons. And that was a pretty good comparison except, well, you're not a saiyan... nor a DBZ character. But your counter argument still holds a lot of weight, so what do you think the best strength feat is? Since it is apparent that you don't think the one we claimed to be was the best one.

This here is a nice feat, SSJ3 Gotenks punched Super Buu to the ground and made a huge crater that looked like a meteor crater. As you can see below, SSJ3 Gotenks punch caused more force and impact than Superman punch and Flash IMP.
       
 
 
 
 

Proof of them being on terms with Superman? Are we talking current, or flying through planets and other crazy feats of power? And I never doubted Buu could not break through the barrier, however, before that happens Hal could have been done whatever he wanted by that point (Since I saw no real evidence of Buu's physical strength, without power scaling of course. Below is Fat Buu lifting a town's worth of people and turning them to clay.  Not a great strength feat, but it is one without scaling.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 Below is Super Buu Gotenks absorbed, whacking Gohan's Ki Blast back at him. Buu whacks it so hard that it travels straight through the planet.  
I know these both don't show Kid Buu, but he didnt get much screen time so.
 
  
Post by Phoenix_Wright (124 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@MisterShin said:

This here is a nice feat, SSJ3 Gotenks punched Super Buu to the ground and made a huge crater that looked like a meteor crater. As you can see below, SSJ3 Gotenks punch caused more force and impact than Superman punch and Flash IMP.

Mr.Shin... I'm afraid there is a contradiction in your testimony! We are comparing strength, the strength of Kid Buu at that. What we saw in your scans were evidence of Gotenks using Ki to make a huge crater at close range. In the earlier part of that scan, Gotenks used the "Volleyball" Technique, right? That attack engulfs the opponent in a considerable amount of Ki, since this is SSJ3 Gotenks the amount of Ki must have been a lot. Gotenks then hits Buu into the earth and it explodes. Although powerful, it is not strength per say. Referencing the Superman/Wounder Woman scan. Well not only is that not Superman's best feat of strength, but the punch was from space, slowed down be re-entry into earth, we all know the ki attacks as powerful as Kamehamehas disappear shortly after leaving the earth, to who is to say that the attack Gotenks did would not have been weaker had he done it in space? Not only that but wasn't Superman mind controlled? As for the feat with the Flash, as pointed out by Rpgr, the Flash can move much faster than light, in the scan he was only approaching the speed of light. Still reading the scan, that punch was faster and more powerful than what most characters shown considering he said "Near infinite mass" and he could hit him (Another speedster almost as fast as him, if not as fast) about 1,000 before he could blink and it sent him across the planet. Both Superman and Flash only used brute strength while Gotenks used ki in his strongest form.

Below is Fat Buu lifting a town's worth of people and turning them to clay. Not a great strength feat, but it is one without scaling.

Similar to Gotenk's scan, that is not a valid strength feat, it is more of a mental feat, that is telekinetic powers, not strength, well not physical strength anyway, and all those people most likely did not even weigh more than the weights Goku used on Kai's planet.

Below is Super Buu Gotenks absorbed, whacking Gohan's Ki Blast back at him. Buu whacks it so hard that it travels straight through the planet.
I know these both don't show Kid Buu, but he didnt get much screen time so.

With this one, Gohan used a blast obviously strong enough to already go through the planet, this feat is not much different from when Frieza knocked way Vegeta's multi planet busting attack. It was not about the force Freiza used that caused them to destroy the planets, it was the power in Vegeta's attack. Ultimate Gohan put a lot of power into the attack, Buu knocked it back and it went straight through the planet.

Post by Kuro_San (1,338 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Phoenix already won only by posting how he posts....

Post by rpgr (45 posts) See mini bio Level 3

@Phoenix_Wright: Actually, you got 2 things wrong. First off, entry into Earth speeds things up to terminal velocity due to gravity and frictionlessness. Basically if you or I were able to ramp up the momentum, either of us could punch a space station not in orbit down into the Earth. Making a huge crater at arms length distance is a much more impressive feat.

2nd, Ki blasts can keep going so long as the user keeps putting power behind it. The point is not to destroy the solar system you know. If ki blasts continued, they'd destroy the very things they were trying to protect. That's part of the problem with some comic and anime feats, you can't judge upper and lower limits because some writers are better than others (ex. PIS is Flash vibrating a plane through a bridge in the new 52, even Flash fans say that's a bad PIS/WIS feat due to the theoretical science behind it, even with comic book logic). Basically with comic books, you need to separate out fanboy writers and good writers, just because someone is paid to do it, doesn't mean it should be canon and usable for debates (ex for DB is DB GT).

Post by wkar (171 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Kid Buu ftw

Post by MrASSH0LE (2,328 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@Phoenix_Wright: i like you

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